there is a complete - wheel to master cylinder - front end from a Hayabusa, delivered for under 600 US dollars; should I buy it and if not what other front end beats this deal on a bang for the buck basis?
thank you gentlemen
With a $600.00 budget, I would go with a 2008 GSXR1000 front end and talk to Dan (giantkiller) for the info on the mod. He has 2 FJ's with this mod.
Fred
thanks Fred. Wheel and all I think that will be closer to a grand, but I will check it out.
Soon to have a third (Turbo bike will have it too)
been chattin' with GK and jt looks like this is a great swap but would be well North of a thousand bucks.
Quote from: Burns on August 16, 2015, 09:53:34 AM
there is a complete - wheel to master cylinder - front end from a Hayabusa, delivered for under 600 US dollars; should I buy it and if not what other front end beats this deal on a bang for the buck basis?
thank you gentlemen
What are the goals? True bang for buck is upgrade your current front end...but I have a feeling going upside down is part of the priorities - which I get (did 1st gen R1 forks about 13 years ago). Almost no matter what you do will be an improvement - but getting the valving dialed in can take a bit of time and money
Also, out of curiosity, what does the swap require for the steering stem?
With most front end swaps the process would be the same as in this one:
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3148.30 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3148.30)
I have found that late model ZX14 swap is a bit more straight forward. The bottom triple bearing actually interchanges with FJ frame, and the top bearing inner diameter is the same as the zx14 at the top triple nut. More on this later.....will post up a pic. ZX14 front ends are similar price on ebay.
ZX14 triple vs FJ Triple
So put a pic in my gallery but not sure how to put it in post from there.....
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=9227 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=9227)
Any way the link works; ho do you post form the gallery?
Note as well that the stem lengths are very similar; I guess you can see where this is going.....
Jeff
That's very interesting. Jeff have you actually tried it in the frame? Also is rake and trail set close to the fj? And 3rd question. Is the zx fork exactly 50mm? Or is it one of the oddball 47/51/52mm. Oh yah 4th question. What year/years is it. The gsxr rake trail ignition locations etc. Change quite a bit through the years.
Just checked the pic. It looks like the steering stops might be the same?
Thanks for posting this
Dan
Lets see if this works:
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/2024_19_08_15_9_16_15.jpeg) :good:
Quote from: giantkiller on August 19, 2015, 10:41:16 AM
That's very interesting. Jeff have you actually tried it in the frame? Also is rake and trail set close to the fj? And 3rd question. Is the zx fork exactly 50mm? Or is it one of the oddball 47/51/52mm. Oh yah 4th question. What year/years is it. The gsxr rake trail ignition locations etc. Change quite a bit through the years.
Yes, I have the bottom race installed in the frame and triple inserted. I need to get to my lathe guy to turn the top down.
Good question on the fork....I do not have those measures here but it is a larger diameter fork that the 2008 R1.
rake/trail: 23 degrees / 94 mm (3.7 in)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Ninja_ZX-14 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Ninja_ZX-14)
Parts are 2008
Steering stops are very close to same but sit out farther; will need a small extension welded on.
In terms of the parts they are pretty reasonable except for calipers: the z1000 guys are buying them up as they fit and are a bit better. z1000 calipers are cheap as a result and readily available.
This guy: www.402bike.com (http://www.402bike.com) has a bunch of brand new ZX14 takeoffs as well....I got my back wheel from him.
Quote from: giantkiller on August 19, 2015, 10:41:16 AM
That's very interesting. Jeff have you actually tried it in the frame? Also is rake and trail set close to the fj? And 3rd question. Is the zx fork exactly 50mm? Or is it one of the oddball 47/51/52mm. Oh yah 4th question. What year/years is it. The gsxr rake trail ignition locations etc. Change quite a bit through the years.
rake wont change - that's set in the steering head and I'm pretty sure there are no sportbikes with "raked" trees - the offset of the upper and lower clamps should be the same. Offset will effect the trail along with fork length and chassis attitude...stock FJ offset is 35mm - less offset will give more trail, but might be good if you raise the rear ride height and/or the forks are shorter.
Thanks fj 1289. I always get them mixed up. I will need to know what the off set is if you can Jeff
Thanks again
Dan
Quote from: giantkiller on August 19, 2015, 07:33:21 PM
Thanks fj 1289. I always get them mixed up. I will need to know what the off set is if you can Jeff
Thanks again
Dan
Will not a chance to measure till later this week but this might help:
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=9234 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=9234)
This came from here. There are actually a lot ox Zx14 front end/wheel conversions out there.
http://www.motorcyclistcafe.com/forums/showthread.php?17470-Triple-Tree-Project (http://www.motorcyclistcafe.com/forums/showthread.php?17470-Triple-Tree-Project)
Quote from: jscgdunn on August 19, 2015, 09:12:02 PM
Quote from: giantkiller on August 19, 2015, 07:33:21 PM
Thanks fj 1289. I always get them mixed up. I will need to know what the off set is if you can Jeff
Thanks again
Dan
Will not a chance to measure till later this week but this might help:
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=9234 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=9234)
This came from here. There are actually a lot ox Zx14 front end/wheel conversions out there.
http://www.motorcyclistcafe.com/forums/showthread.php?17470-Triple-Tree-Project (http://www.motorcyclistcafe.com/forums/showthread.php?17470-Triple-Tree-Project)
Oh and this is in the text:
"The result is this. I over layed the ZRX triple over the ZX14 hole centers. You can see in this picture that the offsets are identical. The 14 is 215mm and the ZRX is 205mm." Not sure if it makes sense or not; identical but different?
Quote from: Burns on August 19, 2015, 03:07:01 AM
been chattin' with GK and jt looks like this is a great swap but would be well North of a thousand bucks.
Just figured with fork brace, valving,springs, and brakes. Just to get the fj forks up to par. You've got atleast $600 into old technology.. Way more if you don't have the tools/knowledge. And have someone else do it for you.
Then you have a lot less weight both unspung an reciprocating. And they look so good
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/2349_22_06_15_10_13_30.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/2349_21_08_14_8_04_13_2.jpeg)
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/2349_12_07_14_5_44_02_0.jpeg)
Quote from: giantkiller on August 20, 2015, 09:54:01 AM
Just figured with fork brace, valving,springs, and brakes. Just to get the fj forks up to par. You've got at least $600 into old technology.. Way more if you don't have the tools/knowledge. And have someone else do it for you.
Then you have a lot less weight both unspung an reciprocating. And they look so good
This is where the
RPM fork valve (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ARPMForkValve) comes into play. It is designed using today's technology to convert the forks from old school damper rod/controlled orifice "valving" to the same shim stack technology used in all USD forks. Plus, it goes one step farther with the patented bypass technology for superior performance in all conditions.
As far as less weight, I am going to have to question that one...
The stock FJ for design has much less "unsprung" weight that any USD fork as the portion of the fork that is unsprung is the aluminum slider & internal damper rod.
USD forks have the steel fork tube as well as the lower mounting hub for the wheel & brakes that weigh more that the FJ parts.
So, if you update the front wheel to a newer wider wheel it will be lighter than the O.E. wheel and you can add the RPM fork valves and you don't have to do any "modding" to install.
So, best bang for the buck is the
RPM fork valve (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ARPMForkValve) system for the stock FJ forks at a cost of less than $365.00.
Randy - RPM
I think the "and they look good" is a matter of personal opinion.
As always, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and everyone is entitled to like what they like.
Personally, the more USD conversions I see on the FJ's, the more I'm finding they don't quite look "right".
At least, not to my eye.... :scratch_one-s_head:
USD forks were developed because they are more "rigid" than conventional forks.
This is another one of those "not really noticeable" in street riding. You are getting up to track speeds when they make a difference where even the tiniest things matter.
But if they look cool to you, go get 'em!
:good2:
Quote from: racerrad8 on August 20, 2015, 11:03:20 AM
Quote from: giantkiller on August 20, 2015, 09:54:01 AM
Just figured with fork brace, valving,springs, and brakes. Just to get the fj forks up to par. You've got at least $600 into old technology.. Way more if you don't have the tools/knowledge. And have someone else do it for you.
Then you have a lot less weight both unspung an reciprocating. And they look so good
This is where the RPM fork valve (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ARPMForkValve) comes into play. It is designed using today's technology to convert the forks from old school damper rod/controlled orifice "valving" to the same shim stack technology used in all USD forks. Plus, it goes one step farther with the patented bypass technology for superior performance in all conditions.
As far as less weight, I am going to have to question that one...
The stock FJ for design has much less "unsprung" weight that any USD fork as the portion of the fork that is unsprung is the aluminum slider & internal damper rod.
USD forks have the steel fork tube as well as the lower mounting hub for the wheel & brakes that weigh more that the FJ parts.
So, if you update the front wheel to a newer wider wheel it will be lighter than the O.E. wheel and you can add the RPM fork valves and you don't have to do any "modding" to install.
So, best bang for the buck is the RPM fork valve (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ARPMForkValve) system for the stock FJ forks at a cost of less than $365.00.
Randy - RPM
Question: is it $365 for just the valves or does that include the springs your web site says the new valve stacks need?
Quote from: great white on August 20, 2015, 07:30:38 PM
RPM fork valve (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ARPMForkValve)
Question: is it $365 for just the valves or does that include the springs your web site says the new valve stacks need?
The is the combined price for the fork valves, required springs and oil.
RPM Fork Valve (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ARPMForkValve)
Fork Spring (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AFS.80)
Fork Oil (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Motul5W)
Randy - RPM
1. the rpm route leaves you with stock brakes and flex-forks - if the stock forks are stiff enough why do you sell a brace?
2. a vendor's opinion that his technology is superior is rather weak evidence. are RPM equipped FJ's cutting quicker lap times than USD equipped bikes? Show me EVIDENCE not self-serving opinion.
3. the claim that these are a drop-in item that works for everybody is highly dubious
bottom line: the RPM stack is a patch on old technology that leaves you shopping for other upgrades.
It has a market but is not the high-end market.
Quote from: racerrad8 on August 20, 2015, 08:01:14 PM
Quote from: great white on August 20, 2015, 07:30:38 PM
RPM fork valve (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ARPMForkValve)
Question: is it $365 for just the valves or does that include the springs your web site says the new valve stacks need?
The is the combined price for the fork valves, required springs and oil.
RPM Fork Valve (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ARPMForkValve)
Fork Spring (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AFS.80)
Fork Oil (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Motul5W)
Randy - RPM
That's a pretty gall darned good deal then!
:good2:
Quote from: great white on August 20, 2015, 07:28:54 PM
Personally, the more USD conversions I see on the FJ's, the more I'm finding they don't quite look "right".
Definitely the case... Wizard draws small crowds of people who've figured out something's not right. Even my boss who's never ridden paused to tell me even he noticed something's not right with that bike...
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8104/8529109609_c9224b5933_c.jpg)
I like it.
Frank
Quote from: Burns on August 20, 2015, 08:02:53 PM
1. the rpm route leaves you with stock brakes and flex-forks - if the stock forks are stiff enough why do you sell a brace?
2. a vendor's opinion that his technology is superior is rather weak evidence. are RPM equipped FJ's cutting quicker lap times than USD equipped bikes? Show me EVIDENCE not self-serving opinion.
3. the claim that these are a drop-in item that works for everybody is highly dubious
bottom line: the RPM stack is a patch on old technology that leaves you shopping for other upgrades.
It has a market but is not the high-end market.
Well, Mr Burns, I guess it is time for you to put your money where your mouth is.
The Renegade Rally is coming up next month, this is my personal invitation to come on down and and see if you can keep up with this "vendor" and form your own opinion. That way you can speak on a more informed basis instead of your "opinion".
If you have any doubt of my "opinion", you might just do a little forum searching of the praises of the fork valves for other opinions from happy customers. I can find you plenty of you can't find them.
So, don't knock it until you see it work for yourself and hopefully we'll see you next month.
2015 NorCal Renegade Rally. Sept 18th-20th (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=14187.0)
Regarding the fork brace, no matter what fork design you have, there is flex. So, the fork brace is offered because that helps eliminate flex and also to keep the old plastic fenders from breaking the tabs off.
If you think USD forks don't flex, then you probably ought to do some research because that is why the fork tube has to have a larger diameter and larger/tubular axles are required to combat the flex of the fork tube. But since the lower portion of the shocks are the sliders you cannot use a fork brace. and must rely on heavier components to combat the flex.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: giantkiller on August 20, 2015, 09:54:01 AM
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/2349_12_07_14_5_44_02_0.jpeg)
Moto Guzzi MGS-01
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/1388_20_08_15_7_32_35.jpeg)
Kinda looks like Dan's. A little. Or is it the other way around? :yes:
Are we doing competitive racing now on the FJ? Anyone racing an FJ? I doubt an FJ with USD fork is anything close to current OEM USD equiped bikes. What is your point?
Some of the cost advantage is not needing to swap out a complete front end. I installed my RPM suspension in my drive way. The service interval is also longer than USD forks. So I spend less time on maintenance.
If you don't trust the sellers claims then ask the forum how many use the RPM valves and what they think of them... I think Randy has a lot of really happy customers. I am one of them, so count me as biased. Almost 20K miles in the RPM front, mostly in the twisties....
Quote from: FJmonkey on August 20, 2015, 08:47:31 PM
Anyone racing an FJ?
Yep...
http://www.kerryrawson.com/fjracer2015/ngcadwell/h4324d333 (http://www.kerryrawson.com/fjracer2015/ngcadwell/h4324d333)
1. your doo-hickey may well be an improvement but you still need wheels and brakes -it is just a start
2. are you saying the FJ fork is as stiff as a USD's?
3. I'm sure you are far better rider (hell I'm almost 70!) but a personal contest would prove nothing about the components
4. testimonials are notoriously untrustworthy
as I said your product has a market, it is not the whole enchillada but some can only afford a taco.
=============================================
Well, Mr Burns, I guess it is time for you to put your money where your mouth is.
The Renegade Rally is coming up next month, this is my personal invitation to come on down and and see if you can keep up with this "vendor" and form your own opinion. That way you can speak on a more informed basis instead of your "opinion".
If you have any doubt of my "opinion", you might just do a little forum searching of the praises of the fork valves for other opinions from happy customers. I can find you plenty of you can't find them.
So, don't knock it until you see it work for yourself and hopefully we'll see you next month.
2015 NorCal Renegade Rally. Sept 18th-20th (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=14187.0)
Regarding the fork brace, no matter what fork design you have, there is flex. So, the fork brace is offered because that helps eliminate flex and also to keep the old plastic fenders from breaking the tabs off.
If you think USD forks don't flex, then you probably ought to do some research because that is why the fork tube has to have a larger diameter and larger/tubular axles are required to combat the flex of the fork tube. But since the lower portion of the shocks are the sliders you cannot use a fork brace. and must rely on heavier components to combat the flex.
Randy - RPM
[/quote]
Quote from: Burns on August 20, 2015, 09:34:50 PM
1. your doo-hickey may well be an improvement but you still need wheels and brakes -it is just a start
Why do you need wheels & brakes?
If you want better brakes, you have an 89, so a set of eBay blue dot calipers will bolt right up to your forks. Here is a set of those for $60.00: Front Brake Calipers LOADED blue (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-FJR1300-FJR-2004-03-05-Front-Brake-Calipers-LOADED-blue-/131533166672?hash=item1e9ffcd850&vxp=mtr)
According to my math you are now up to $425.00...still cheaper than the busa front end that you need to do a bunch of modification, work and spend money on to make fit.
2. are you saying the FJ fork is as stiff as a USD's?
No, I am sorry if I gave you that impression. I am well aware the newer USD forks are more rigid than the 80's designed forks, that is to be expected with technology progress. But that is not what you original question was; was it? (see below)
3. I'm sure you are far better rider (hell I'm almost 70!) but a personal contest would prove nothing about the components
Well, thank you for your compliment on my riding skills, even though you have never seen me ride, for all you really know I could be one of the worst riders for have ever seen in your life.
After riding a FJ with & without the RPM suspension components, no matter what your skill level the difference is night & day, hopefully you can come to the Renegade Rally (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=14187.0) and see for yourself.
4. testimonials are notoriously untrustworthy
You are basing your opinion on the testimonials that USD forks are the best thing since sliced bread, aren't you because I see stock forks & wheels on your FJ. So, why are the USD testimonials anymore "trustworthy" than those from people who have spent their hard earned money on RPM suspension components which you say are "less trustworthy" the the USD owners.
as I said your product has a market, it is not the whole enchillada but some can only afford a taco.
So, again my personal invitation has been extended to you Mr. Burns. Since you are "almost 70" no personal contest will take place, but I will let you ride my wife's stock 16" wheel & stock brakes, 86 FJ1200 and if that not not up to your standards, I will let you ride my 92 Fj1200 with 17" wheels, upgrades brakes and RPM suspension. This way you can experience the difference for yourself instead of speculating and offering a uninformed opinion based on untrustworthy testimonials.
Hell, I will even make sure it has the correct springs installed based on your weight so you get the full compliment of the RPM fork valves and rear shock, that is two for one deal. What is your weight?
Sorry, I personally don't have a USD bike available, but maybe you can ride someones bike with USD forks, as there will be several in attendance.
Then and only then can you form a true & honest opinion of how & what works and then you can make an educated decision and again, not base your opinion from untrustworthy testimonials.
So come on down, and test the "doo-hickey" because for might just find out it is more like the supreme burrito.
Finally, since this post started with a question asking for "opinions" and you have now been given several "opinions", including mine; you probably should come on down and see what all of the hype is about the RPM doo-hickey before basing your decision on "
what other front end beats this deal on a bang for the buck basis?"
Quote from: Burns on August 16, 2015, 09:53:34 AM
...should I buy it and if not what other front end beats this deal on a bang for the buck basis?
thank you gentlemen
Randy - RPM
Boy I didn't mean for this to happen. First off Randy has my respect 100% He has done more than could ever be imagined as a vendor and an enthusiast for the fj owners. Than any one else. He is honest straight forward. I a stranger came to his shop. And he treated me like a close friend. Not a customer. I don't know how he can do all the time and development that he does to make the high quality products that he sells. And still make a profit. I guarantee if he added up all the hours he puts in. And put minimum wage to it he would be in the negative. And I guarantee bang for the buck his. Valving springs and brace. Is the best you can get. And ease of install for sure. Customer Service unbelievable.
Now that being said I was in no way bashing Randy's products. USD forks are for us retarded moditis adicts. Who wants to push it a little farther.
I guarantee that unspung weight and especially reciprocating weight. Is significant. As well as braking and stiffness. Between the gsxr front end that I'm using. And any wheel and brake combo that I've seen used on an fj front suspension. Randy I just weighed a stock fj front axle 1.010 lbs and the much larger stiffer hollow front axle 1.019lbs. Millions and millions are spent everyyear in rnd to save even the smallest of weight and make it better.x the 15 years between 93 and 2008 it's probably billions. I no doubt that Randys parts make the stock suspension as good as it can possibly be.
And Im also sure that with my limited skillset. I probably wouldn't be able to feel the difference. But like I've said before. It might be the difference that I didn't even know. That kept my skin from hitting the pavement again.
I'm going to have the gsxr forks for the Turbo bike taken apart to have extensions welded onto the fork caps. I'll see if I can get the machinest /suspension guru. To take the stock fj forks appart and weigh all the unspung components of each.
I know just by picking them up the stiffer gsxr fork verses the fj fork that the gsxr forks is way lighter.l can't remember exactly but I weighed the entire front Assembly. And was surprised that the stiffer, better braking and possibly slightly (because I'm no expert) performing gsxr Assembly was only 9 + pounds lighter. But yes way more expensive. If you want the best you can get using stock easily modified front suspension. Buy Randy's products you can't go wrong. If you want to push it alittle farther, and like doing the extra work and effort. The USD forks are for you. And they look great. (I was accused of buying a new bike from a dealer. And bringing it to the Rockerbox antique and custom show. I guess other people think they look like something the manufacturers would make today)
Thank you Randy for all you do for us dumb fj owners.
And thank you for all you've done for me one of your long distance customers.
Dan
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on August 20, 2015, 09:05:40 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on August 20, 2015, 08:47:31 PM
Anyone racing an FJ?
Yep...
http://www.kerryrawson.com/fjracer2015/ngcadwell/h4324d333 (http://www.kerryrawson.com/fjracer2015/ngcadwell/h4324d333)
Cool, we have a few.... I need to spend time checking that out. Thanks.
http://youtu.be/tDhvK3DpqcU (http://youtu.be/tDhvK3DpqcU)
http://youtu.be/EO7Ohvpil-k (http://youtu.be/EO7Ohvpil-k)
A "notoriously untrustworthy testimonial" and another on the R.P.M. Fork Valves (and Fork Brace).
And one more with both the front and RPM rear shock in action - fortunate I did not get airborne @ 4:20+
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=$1#errorNo longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=$1#errorNo%20longer%20available)
Good evening,
Midget
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on August 20, 2015, 09:05:40 PM
Quote from: FJmonkey on August 20, 2015, 08:47:31 PM
Anyone racing an FJ?
Yep...
http://www.kerryrawson.com/fjracer2015/ngcadwell/h4324d333 (http://www.kerryrawson.com/fjracer2015/ngcadwell/h4324d333)
Might be the same guy:
http://www.fjracer.com/who-is-doc/4520268915 (http://www.fjracer.com/who-is-doc/4520268915)
And another:
[Video]https://youtu.be/MlOjASHavXg[/video]
All racing in "vintage" classes to my knowledge. More popular across the pond it seems....
I can't speak to the RPM fork valves, but I have a set of Racetech gold cartridge emulators in my 85 VF750F wearing 41 MM VF1000F front forks.
The difference between the damper rod forks without the emulators and with them is very noticeable.
IF the RPM's have a similar effect, they would be well worth the 365 quoted here.
Now, if a guy wants USD forks, nothing wrong with that. Go get 'em and be happy with your choice! :good2:
But arguing the merits of one over the other on a street bike doesn't make a lot of sense. Other than liking your bike and the "cool factor", there's no real advantage of one over the other.
Weight savings is a point, but I personally don't care about a few pounds when you're talking about topping 500-600 lbs. I'd be better off (and easier) dropping 20-30 lbs of my own fat butt....
As to racing: any class the FJ is going to be competitive in is going to be "vintage". They have fairly strict rules about changes to the bikes. A fork swap to USD forks is going to be right outside of the rules.
Question for RPM: Are you emulators/valves "tuneable"? If they are, do they require removing and swapping shim stacks or are they adjustable once installed? IE: Adjustment nut or something on the fork cap, etc....
Quote from: giantkiller on August 20, 2015, 11:16:21 PM
Boy I didn't mean for this to happen. First off Randy has my respect 100% He has done more than could ever be imagined as a vendor and an enthusiast for the fj owners. Than any one else. He is honest straight forward. I a stranger came to his shop. And he treated me like a close friend. Not a customer. I don't know how he can do all the time and development that he does to make the high quality products that he sells. And still make a profit. I guarantee if he added up all the hours he puts in. And put minimum wage to it he would be in the negative. And I guarantee bang for the buck his. Valving springs and brace. Is the best you can get. And ease of install for sure. Customer Service unbelievable.
Now that being said I was in no way bashing Randy's products. USD forks are for us retarded moditis adicts. Who wants to push it a little farther.
I guarantee that unspung weight and especially reciprocating weight. Is significant. As well as braking and stiffness. Between the gsxr front end that I'm using. And any wheel and brake combo that I've seen used on an fj front suspension. Randy I just weighed a stock fj front axle 1.010 lbs and the much larger stiffer hollow front axle 1.019lbs. Millions and millions are spent everyyear in rnd to save even the smallest of weight and make it better.x the 15 years between 93 and 2008 it's probably billions. I no doubt that Randys parts make the stock suspension as good as it can possibly be.
And Im also sure that with my limited skillset. I probably wouldn't be able to feel the difference. But like I've said before. It might be the difference that I didn't even know. That kept my skin from hitting the pavement again.
I'm going to have the gsxr forks for the Turbo bike taken apart to have extensions welded onto the fork caps. I'll see if I can get the machinest /suspension guru. To take the stock fj forks appart and weigh all the unspung components of each.
I know just by picking them up the stiffer gsxr fork verses the fj fork that the gsxr forks is way lighter.l can't remember exactly but I weighed the entire front Assembly. And was surprised that the stiffer, better braking and possibly slightly (because I'm no expert) performing gsxr Assembly was only 9 + pounds lighter. But yes way more expensive. If you want the best you can get using stock easily modified front suspension. Buy Randy's products you can't go wrong. If you want to push it alittle farther, and like doing the extra work and effort. The USD forks are for you. And they look great. (I was accused of buying a new bike from a dealer. And bringing it to the Rockerbox antique and custom show. I guess other people think they look like something the manufacturers would make today)
Thank you Randy for all you do for us dumb fj owners.
And thank you for all you've done for me one of your long distance customers.
Dan
Plus one on all these comments....like blue spots, the preference of one over the other is personal,...different strokes for different folks. Some people like restored cars , some like restomods, some like rat rods. Personally, I really enjoy doing the modifications over our long winters, and I do prefer the USD looks. I also really enjoy following along on other projects on here, and amazed on humbled at the skills put on display. Let's make sure we do not make anyone feel uncomfortable posting their projects because they feel they might "go against the grain" of the viewpoints of our senior members.
Nuff said,
Jeff
......and don't forget, the USD forks gets the chicks.........
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 21, 2015, 10:19:12 AM
......and don't forget, the USD forks gets the chicks.........
:sarcastic:
Quote from: great white on August 21, 2015, 07:24:08 AM
But arguing the merits of one over the other on a street bike doesn't make a lot of sense. Other than liking your bike and the "cool factor", there's no real advantage of one over the other.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/1388_21_08_15_4_59_13.jpeg)
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on August 21, 2015, 10:29:47 AM
Quote from: great white on August 21, 2015, 07:24:08 AM
But arguing the merits of one over the other on a street bike doesn't make a lot of sense. Other than liking your bike and the "cool factor", there's no real advantage of one over the other.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/9/1388_21_08_15_4_59_13.jpeg)
Brunette is hawt..... :good2:
Quote from: great white on August 21, 2015, 07:24:08 AM
Question for RPM: Are you emulators/valves "tuneable"? If they are, do they require removing and swapping shim stacks or are they adjustable once installed? IE: Adjustment nut or something on the fork cap, etc....
Short answer, yes. But since they specifically designed for the FJ and not a universal part like the other fork valves available that you have to tune to make them function properly in the FJ.
Here is a full write up explaining it all: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=7486.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=7486.0)
Randy - RPM
Dan & Jeff, you guys are spot on and I applaud your efforts, as well as many others for having the full on moditius bug. Unfortunately the USD front fork conversions are not for the majority of the forum members who are not the moditus type, but do want improved performance.
I think GW said it best below:
Quote from: great white on August 21, 2015, 07:24:08 AM
But arguing the merits of one over the other on a street bike doesn't make a lot of sense. Other than liking your bike and the "cool factor", there's no real advantage of one over the other.
I just put it out there for Mr. Burns who asked the question on the best bang for the buck regarding front suspension. Considering the cost, labor and re-valving required for the USD to work properly, the RPM system is the best bang for the buck.
Randy - RPM
Quote from: Burns on August 20, 2015, 09:34:50 PM
...
4. testimonials are notoriously untrustworthy
...
Maybe in the strictest sense of that statement - especially in a caveat-emptor application....
BUT, suspension is by its very nature extremely subjective. If it was all "numbers" and "facts" then every GP racer would want the exact same suspension settings - there would be no need to tune the ride for the rider. And there in lies the rub to me - in most cases a "lesser" suspension PROPERLY SET UP will perform much better than a "superior" suspension that's NOT set up properly.
I did a lot of research before I decided on that 2007/8 gsxr 1000 front end. They are notorious for being oversprung (too stiff) from the factory. So I hoped they would work for the fj and me. I was correct. No respring or revalve. I actually had to soften up the settings from where they were. For correct sag etc. So if you are thinking of doing USD consider these. Also those 2years the gsxr 1000 had a hydrolic clutch. So if you get a complete front end you can use the clutch master for the fj.
Dan
This is an interesting thread and many have voiced their opinions on the subject.
The simple fact that anything you do to the fj front end is an improvement over the stock mushy flexing feeling.
For some riders , simply adding a fork brace makes all the difference.
For me , I like function over fashion as is evident in my reluctance to wash my fj ... I still have dirt on it from the WCR. :pardon:
I prefer to ride rather than endless modification projects and the RPM front fork Mod is quick and easy with minimal skill required.
That's my opinion. :mail1:
It is a very generous offer Randy. I'm not sure that it is a valid test design though. You obviously have your bike set-up and dialed in and just how representative it is of mounts where somebody just dropped your magic bullet down its tubes remains an open question. As to testimonials, my criticism is broader than your rejoinder, i.e. ALL testimonials are suspect. The gravamen of my point is that you have made very bold claims and great claims require great evidence. As yet none has been forthcoming.
What are the criteria? Subjective evaluations are simply anecdotal.
Burns, you're not going to win this one. Regardless. Just put the Busa front end on and never look back. :yes:
I'll marshal the evidence and close.
I Bias
the conversation turned to singing the praises of the vendor - irrelevant to the comparo but an indication of the bias of the venue. Rather than bolstering the claims it discounts them.
II Old vs New technology.
USD's are lighter,stiffer, and sport better brakes; even if (and that is a big if) RPM's valving is as good the rest of the package is not.
III 2 schools of thought
a. "good enough" mod your fj cost effectively for the real world you are in
b."the best" mod you FJ to incorporate the best technology available
I personally tend to be more in "a" than "b" but I'm kinda shifting. I'm starting to think that once you go past "fresh" i.e.more or less stock components that are in good working order, go as far as you can afford to into the modern stuff.
I "opened the door" with "bang for the buck" but I was applying that to the "b" school
RPM's product is "a" school and, like I said, it has a market.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Do_not_take_his_bone.jpg)
:sarcastic:
Quote from: Burns on August 22, 2015, 06:57:24 AM
I'll marshal the evidence and close.
I Bias
the conversation turned to singing the praises of the vendor - irrelevant to the comparo but an indication of the bias of the venue. Rather than bolstering the claims it discounts them.
II Old vs New technology.
USD's are lighter,stiffer, and sport better brakes; even if (and that is a big if) RPM's valving is as good the rest of the package is not.
III 2 schools of thought
a. "good enough" mod your fj cost effectively for the real world you are in
b."the best" mod you FJ to incorporate the best technology available
I personally tend to be more in "a" than "b" but I'm kinda shifting. I'm starting to think that once you go past "fresh" i.e.more or less stock components that are in good working order, go as far as you can afford to into the modern stuff.
I "opened the door" with "bang for the buck" but I was applying that to the "b" school
RPM's product is "a" school and, like I said, it has a market.
Mr. Burns, I can only take by the fact you have not accepted my invitation, you will not be attending the rally to make an educated & informed decision. I also thought about addressing all of your bullet points, but since you ignored my previous questions posed to you, I figured it to be a waste of time.
And as an good attorney knows, when he doesn't get the answer he is looking for from the original question, he redirects the question to receive the answer he is looking for; instead you are playing judge, jury to render your decision and "close".
I am glad to have an "A" type personality and sell only "grade A", top of the line products because RPM customers deserve nothing but the best.
(http://cdn-2.simplypsychology.org/typeapersonality.jpg)
I look forward to your USD modification, build & install, no matter what "b" system you choose.
Randy - RPM