hey guys. i could need some ideas. i started working on the fj1100 i bought last week and was wondering if anyone here have any ideas whats the issue.
starts great, once its on for the first few minutes very cold it backfires a little. when hot runs very smooth in idle. however, once i get into higher rpms, lets say above 5k, it starts firing weak. almsot like it doesnt get gas in all carbs. i already took apart the carbs and i am pretty sure thats not the issue. i also checked the fuel line to make sure the gas can flow freely with gravity. the reason why i am sure its not the carb, even though it feels like its running out of gas, is that it gets much worst when driving more than 5-10 min and it really gets hot. no power all all in full throttle especially up the hill. i thought - well probably the coils are bad when its hot. i had one spare coil from the parts that came with the bike and just tested it on each side and its exactly the same. it just doesnt fire clean and doesnt have power. i also just changed the spark plugs just to be sure. i dont think its the pickup coil. from my experience they usually work or are completely dead. any other ideas?
thanks in advance. :ireful:
i just saw this answer in another topic here below:
QuoteIt looks like blocked vacuum system in fuel cap.
When Your FJ will start running rough, just stop and open fuel tank cap. If You will hear hissing of air sucked in to tank You will be sure.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=14044.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=14044.0)
could that be my problem? because i CAN hear hissing from he tank when i stop.
The hissing is normal, however, if you have a spare key, ride with the key in the cap and open the tank while you are having running problems. If your tank is going into vacuum lock you will have a fuel delivery issue. Opening the tank will determine if the tank is not venting properly. Trouble shooting is always about eliminating the simple/easy stuff first. Let us know the results, then we can work on the next few simple things to check.
yeah i jsut read thrpugh that whole other threat. let me take her for another ride. because when i got back home the last time up the hill no power at all, then on the bottom of the hill, after letting her more or less roll down with not more than half throttle, she had power again for a few seconds, almost like the carbs fill up again. im leaning more towards gas problem again now. let me test this quick :bye2:
same problem with the cap open. it runs good for the first and second gear when turning out from the house, but probably still nothing close to full power, and then it starts running like crap again like there is no gas or not enough voltage to spark it clean. also it was backfiring again at times. so whats the next step? empty the tank and open the petlock?
nevermind this last post
Still having the same problem?
Float level, perhaps? Could be too low?
...just a guess.
Steve
yes, still same problem. i just emptied the tank, did the suck test (i hope it also counts with empty tank) but i couldnt suck any air so i guess thats good. its also holding the gas inside on ON. took the petcock out, not even the slightest dirt in the filter. cleaned it, put it back in. now i shortened the fuel line that goes from the tank to the T part because that had a way too long loop before. now it goes straight down. im about to fill gas back in. i have new sparks now. i guess i will be able to read them again. if i remember right, 2 were perfect, one was black and one almost a little too white.
i just took a video for you guys of the carbs without filter and running when i saw that #3 is flooded as it seems and #2 is backfiring. i guess once again the carbs come off.. sighhhhhhh
Quote from: element303 on August 05, 2015, 04:01:40 PM
did the suck test (i hope it also counts with empty tank) but i couldnt suck any air so i guess thats good.
The suck test does not require fuel, sounds like it passed. That is good to know. Your spark plugs differences are worth checking on. They should all be the same condition. One black and one white is a problem. Keep after it, you will find it, fix it and get your Kookaloo back....
i couldnt be more cranky right now. took the carbs out again and #2 & #3 had black sparks plugs (the new ones) already. im a little confused. when i took out the carb bank from my kawasaki and turned it on top, the fuel would flow out of the bowl, here it doesnt. when i open the bowls they are all still full of fuel.
anyways, i tried to adjust the float level of 2 & 3. when i compare them to 1 and 4 they all seem to open and close at the same position so i dont know why they flood. i tried to adjust them to a leaner level but nothing at all got better. right from the start, backfires and running like crap. the needle seems to be in good condition and im sure it closes. man, i seriously hate dealing with carburators. i cant believe i sold the kawasaki and now i have the exact same issue with that bike too.
are there any guides here on how to do it right?
There sure is....go to the Files section look in the Carb Files and on page 2 there is a PDF on carb cleaning.
Do a through cleaning, half measures will avail you nothing.
Also: Replace the float needle seat o rings, in fact, just get the carb ss screw kit and o ring kit from RPM.
One more option to help trouble shoot the carbs is using a clear piece of tubing on the bowl drain. With the tube pushed onto the drain nipple, curve the tube up so the other end of the tube is above the carb top. Then crack the drain screw open. This will create a sight glass and allow you see if the bowls are filling the same. You will need to run the engine so keep a fan or two on the engine to avoid over heating.
Are all 4 choke plungers returning to the fully closed (in) position when you turn the choke lever off?
It's possible that #2 and #3 are stuck in the open position? :scratch_one-s_head:
Checked the correct routing of the fuel line? I believe that its critical. Check your shop manual (if you have one) for illustration. If you don't have one someone here will have a link to it.
Quote from: krusty on August 05, 2015, 07:34:47 PM
Checked the correct routing of the fuel line? I believe that its critical. Check your shop manual (if you have one) for illustration. If you don't have one someone here will have a link to it.
Good call Krusty, that is an easy thing to check. After the fuel line wraps around carb top #3 then it goes under the "Y" splitter and into the petcock fitting. Going over the "Y" fitting can cause the line to kink. If it kinks enough then your 10MM fuel line becomes smaller. I will search for the post that covers this.
edit... found it
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/2/1121_22_10_11_7_05_13.jpeg)
In this image the line returns under one of the two lines, the OEM routing is under both lines before it connects to the petcock.
Thanks to Mr Blackstock for the image....
Here is the full post
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=8015.msg73889#msg73889 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=8015.msg73889#msg73889)
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 05, 2015, 07:15:23 PM
There sure is....go to the Files section look in the Carb Files and on page 2 there is a PDF on carb cleaning.
Do a through cleaning, half measures will avail you nothing.
Also: Replace the float needle seat o rings, in fact, just get the carb ss screw kit and o ring kit from RPM.
i did clean the carb very carefully yesterday including carb cleaner, wd40, needles and air pressure. they werent even dirty. just slightly debris but nothing that will make it run shitty. the carb dont need a rebuild kit really. even the rubber on the needle is still in good condition.
Quote from: FJmonkey on August 05, 2015, 07:27:06 PM
One more option to help trouble shoot the carbs is using a clear piece of tubing on the bowl drain. With the tube pushed onto the drain nipple, curve the tube up so the other end of the tube is above the carb top. Then crack the drain screw open. This will create a sight glass and allow you see if the bowls are filling the same. You will need to run the engine so keep a fan or two on the engine to avoid over heating.
yes, thank you. i used to do that on the kawasaki. i will do that tomorrow first thing. i already forgot about that.
Quote from: Firehawk068 on August 05, 2015, 07:29:02 PM
Are all 4 choke plungers returning to the fully closed (in) position when you turn the choke lever off?
It's possible that #2 and #3 are stuck in the open position? :scratch_one-s_head:
i think yes but i will double check again. but its def. a flooding problem. i can see gas running down the carb 3 and 2 had a black plug too already.
Quote from: FJmonkey on August 05, 2015, 07:39:41 PM
Quote from: krusty on August 05, 2015, 07:34:47 PM
Checked the correct routing of the fuel line? I believe that its critical. Check your shop manual (if you have one) for illustration. If you don't have one someone here will have a link to it.
Good call Krusty, that is an easy thing to check. After the fuel line wraps around carb top #3 then it goes under the "Y" splitter and into the petcock fitting. Going over the "Y" fitting can cause the line to kink. If it kinks enough then your 10MM fuel line becomes smaller. I will search for the post that covers this.
edit... found it
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/2/1121_22_10_11_7_05_13.jpeg)
In this image the line returns under one of the two lines, the OEM routing is under both lines before it connects to the petcock.
Thanks to Mr Blackstock for the image....
Here is the full post
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=8015.msg73889#msg73889 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=8015.msg73889#msg73889)
thank you guys for this. this explains what the thing is good on carb 3 haha. actually, i shortened the main fuel like that comes from the tank to make sure it really flows with gravity. its not bend or anything and i can see the fuel running in the T piece. its getting too much fuel in the flooded ones. i checked all that already. fuel lines are good and not bend and it flows freely.
Quote from: element303 on August 05, 2015, 10:37:21 PM
...the carb dont need a rebuild kit really. even the rubber on the needle is still in good condition.
The rubber tips on the float needles may be fine, but something's causing the flooding.
My money is on the float needle seat O rings.
yes, you might be right. i went through pics again how to adjust the float level and im gonna do that again now and take out the seats to check. then i will bring all floats in the perfect position based on the manual.
ok so once again i have the carbs out and open, cause i love it so much, and i took pics of the needle seats of the #2 & 3 carb. they seem to be intact, instead of pieces of the o-ring missing, there is actually some excess material around it. it looks worst on the pic and macro but i will pull out the other 2 as well now to see how they look. i guess i could try to clean it so its smooth. doesnt really look that bad to me. what do you think? i made a took to measure the float hight perfectly again and will do that now.
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/11823085_894027580690818_8783308196146900056_o.jpg)
those o-rings are shot... once they are cut like that, they won't seal. You should replace them.
Frank
Like Frank said, the o-rings are shot. They are inexpensive and responsible for holding back highly flammable liquid so think about your cost vs. risk.
well yeah i just tried to take one of the "good" ones off and it broke right away. im gonna check some places to see if im lucky to find it around here. dont really wanna wait a whole week again since i got a 3day permission to drive it yesterday and wanna make use of it. but at least that seems to be the issue that i have. maybe i should rename the subject so other people can find help too.
Make sure the o-ring material is compatible to fuel and ethanol.
This should help.
http://www.marcorubber.com/materialguide.htm (http://www.marcorubber.com/materialguide.htm)
good call. i will go to a local carb dude. im sure he have a box full of o-rings.
Make sure you get the right size. Too small it will still leak. Too big and you will have to ruin the needle seats to get them out next time. These are guaranteed to fit Needle Seat O-Ring Set (http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Carb%3ANeedleSeatO-Ring)
Robert - RPM (http://rpmracingca.com/index.asp)
that was easy. perfect size i believe.
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11817254_894067464020163_1139926452556375666_n.jpg?oh=1e03614faa07c281d9daade4f64466e7&oe=56825F13)
thank you robert. i tried to get this one local so i dont have to wait a week. i was lucky and found it.
Here is a size that will work.
http://www.oringsandmore.com/viton-oring-7-1-x-1-6mm-price-for-25-pcs/ (http://www.oringsandmore.com/viton-oring-7-1-x-1-6mm-price-for-25-pcs/)
George
No problem here to help, glad you found some that will work. :good2: Just putting it out there for those that didn't know already. Shipping at most is 3 business days from us but 90% of the time it is 2 day coast to coast.
Robert - RPM (http://rpmracingca.com/index.asp)
yeah thank you again. the thing is im in Puerto Rico and it takes a week unless its shipped with 3day priority. but im sure i will order some parts from you soon. already checked out your website! ok lets get those carbs back together and fire her up. perfect sunny, hot day in the caribbean to take her into the roads of the rain forest!
Yea takes a few extra days to get across the pond. How is the weather there in October? I may be headed that way at the end of Oct. early Nov.
Robert
Quote from: racerrad8 on August 06, 2015, 03:39:12 PM
....How is the weather there in October? I may be headed that way at the end of Oct. early Nov.
Robert
Who are you kidding? You will be on your honeymoon, correct?
You will never leave your room. Plan on lot's of room service.
Bet on it.
Honeymoon yes. I had planned on at least few hours of beach time......
always sunny. hot. very hot. its been very dry this year, record drought. if you come get in touch with me, i have a tour business. to make sure you have a ton of fun. although i leave to the philippines in 12 days and im not sure when i come back. probably mid october. also tell me before u book a place. i have the IDEAL hotel for you.
back to that moody b*tch of a bike. just took her for a half hour ride after reinstalling the carbs. doesnt seem to flood anymore, still too hot to pull the new spark plugs out to read them but even though it turned on right away and runs very smooth in idle, still same problem. first minute i would say she runs pretty powerful maybe 70% of what she is supposed to run hp wise, as soon i get over 5k total hesitation and as i keep driving and she gets hotter is gets worse and into lower rpm ranges too. after 15-20 min hesitates a lot, then there is a spot between 3500 and 5000 rpm when she runs kind of smooth but for sure way beyond what this engine could deliver.. just one big hesitation.. which leeds me to believe once more its electrical. but im gonna wait a little and read the plugs. its frustrating.
what i can tell though so far is that the handling is superb. feels amazing, especially considering its a bike from 85. very comfortable, cornering and handling very precise. cant wait to have her running normal and really enjoy this great bike. its a keeper for sure.
PM sent sorry about the momentary thread hijack.
Robert - RPM
Ok, the flooding is stopped, good.
Are *all* the little tiny holes in your emulsion tubes (aka jet nozzles, needle jets) open and clear?
It sounds like your bike might be running lean (getting hot) when on the needle jet (mid range)
On the electrical side, clean the contacts in the run/stop switch (on your right handlebar) It powers the ignition box.
While you at it, do your charging system a favor: Under the right side panel is a red plug. Take that plug apart and check to see if it's melted.
alright. yeah im still not there with the carbs. just took out the sparks.
1 + 4 way too lean. completely white
2 completely fouled black
3 well. almost good. the center is light brown but inside its black too but def going in the right direction.
i set up all the floats on the same level as stated in the manual. 22mm i believe. i made a tool to measure it easier.
can it really be THAT off from a equal position of the floats? im guessing the next step would be to set 1 + 4 to a little more extreme rich setting, and 2 to a very lean one.
i took out the main jets when i cleaned it, the other that is deeper in a hole (im not sure which one was that) i didnt get out cause it was too deep to reach with my screw driver. other than that i cleaned it was a ton of carb cleaner, wd40, needles and in the end blew the hell out of it with air pressure. now im thinking maybe giving it a bath over night in something but not sure.
which panel are you talking about? to be sure im looking at the right place.
The side panel on the right side.
Scroll down: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=14089.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=14089.0)
Take the slides out, flip the carbs over, take the mains out, now with the mains out you can push up on the emulsion tubes and take them out from the top.
Did you take your pilot jets out?
Perhaps this video will help you. http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=12407.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=12407.0)
great video. i will take that out for the 4th time tomorrow and get it really completely apart. problaby something is still dirty and thats why 2 of them are so lean. i dont have any plugs to cover the pilot jets in my carbs. is that a problem?
Correct Terminology is important. You need to do some reading. There are no plugs on your pilot jets.
There are dust caps on your air/fuel idle screws and no they are not important.
They are nice to have, but not critical.
https://youtu.be/95nlrP-yn2I?t=9m10s
I'll be a monkey's uncle..(sorry Markus) :flag_of_truce:
No, we don't have those on our carbs.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 06, 2015, 07:56:40 PM
I'll be a monkey's uncle..(sorry Markus) :flag_of_truce:
No, we don't have those on our carbs.
I have no problem with you being my uncle.... In fact it would be an honor Father Pat.... I already learned how to polish my forks and header tubes with really good results from you. Why not be an honorary uncle.
As a suggestion take the 1 & 4 cylinders and back out the fuel air screws 1/4 to 1/2 turn (give them a bit more fuel air mixture) and take the 3 & 4 screws and turn them in 1/4 to 1/2 turn (reduce some fuel air mixture). See if your plug readings get better. I had the same type of reading's and that's what I did. My plugs read pretty close to the same now.
You should re-balance the cabs after each adjustment.
George
Yea Mark, that was a fun day. We are going to do it again when San Dimas Mike comes out in the fall when it's not so blasted hot....I have a polished swing arm with his name on it
George, I would wait on tweaking the air/fuel idle adjustment until he gets those emulsion tubes scrubbed and cleaned.
OK will do. I had the turns counted first time I cleaned the carb (not good enough). They were all 2 1/2 turns. Tomorrow morning I will take that thing apart COMPLETELY again and soak all jets in carb cleaner and clean every part with a needle. Probably something at the 1+2 carbs is plugged and no gas gets through.
And about the rubber plugs, just wanted to make sure they are not missing in mine.
Quote from: element303 on August 06, 2015, 04:12:47 PM
as i keep driving and she gets hotter is gets worse and into lower rpm ranges too....
Please use the Factory Pro Mikuni CV Tuning procedure... follow it exactly and go through it 3-4 times from top to bottom. Your bike is exhibiting classic lean behavior, but the carbs are actually very complicated and you're just going to chase your tail until you adopt a systematic approach.
Link: http://www.factorypro.com/tech_tuning_procedures/tuning_carbtune,cv,high_rpm_engines.html (http://www.factorypro.com/tech_tuning_procedures/tuning_carbtune,cv,high_rpm_engines.html)
Frank
great link but the pink is hard on the eye. now i see the world in green. i will bookmark that. i dont want to bring it to that perfection. as long the spark plugs have a good reading and i can drive it im happy. thank you
Quote from: element303 on August 06, 2015, 08:28:03 PM
.....Probably something at the 1+2 carbs is plugged and no gas gets through.
^^ Yea Chris, that is exactly what I think is happening. Get those E tubes clean, you'll feel the difference.
Sorry for the rubber cap confusion on the video. I'm glad you pointed that out to me.
it really can only be there because the float level is perfect on all 4. #3 still worries me but i will get there. i have to start going to different stores soon when mine runs out of spark plugs. no worries about the plugs. just wanted to be sure because my kawasaki had them.
Quote from: element303 on August 06, 2015, 08:43:45 PM
it really can only be there because the float level is perfect on all 4. #3 still worries me but i will get there. i have to start going to different stores soon when mine runs out of spark plugs. no worries about the plugs. just wanted to be sure because my kawasaki had them.
Just clean them off and reuse them... Nothing bad happened to them right?
well i have the experience with the fouled ones. they dont work well anymore if they get too black even after cleaning them. but i guess i can try it. i had a float problem with my kawasaki and i broke the sparks within minutes until i got the float level correct. i will get up early tomorrow, once again to deal with this. i want to get her running correctly tomorrow!!
Probably no long WHS correct any more, but my dad taught me that to clean the carbon out of spark plugs, stick the cap end into the ground so that the electrode end is pointing up, pour some petrol into the valley and light it..... burns all the carbon out and you can then give them a quick clean and re-gap them.........
Been doing it for years and not a single singed eyebrow yet!... :rofl2:
Harvy
Quote from: Harvy on August 06, 2015, 10:56:38 PM
Probably no long WHS correct any more, but my dad taught me that to clean the carbon out of spark plugs, stick the cap end into the ground so that the electrode end is pointing up, pour some petrol into the valley and light it..... burns all the carbon out and you can then give them a quick clean and re-gap them.........
Been doing it for years and not a single singed eyebrow yet!... :rofl2:
Harvy
Haven't learned of this technique before. However, using a propane torch to heat the electrode end up nicely has worked successfully in my past. Past being old two-stroke dirt bike days.
wow.. the jets and tubes were not dirty, they were filthy... :crazy:
i dont know why i didnt take it out complete the first time i cleaned it. no way some carb cleaner and air pressure would get that out. i had to scrub with a screwdriver to get the most stuff off after 30 min bathing it in carb cleaner and some of the holes of the tubes i could barely even get through with a needle. i already cant wait to fire hr up the first time after this.....
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 05, 2015, 07:15:23 PM
There sure is....go to the Files section look in the Carb Files and on page 2 there is a PDF on carb cleaning.
Do a through cleaning, half measures will avail you nothing.
Also: Replace the float needle seat o rings, in fact, just get the carb ss screw kit and o ring kit from RPM.
Amen Father Pat
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11828703_894513177308925_8976045068409386820_n.jpg?oh=ab8e2432de6ac96d0d9bcd44bae2d59e&oe=563EAF87)
that was BEFORE scrubbing all parts, just having the tubes and jets lying in carb cleaner for half hour
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11207301_894513190642257_9085921780663003586_n.jpg?oh=13770424617bdcd4398814d92110caa3&oe=5683AACD)
im installing it back in the bike right now and fire her up. i cant wait to drive her. i hope that was it.
How much of the crud came from the inside of the carbs?
all that dirt was on the tubes and jets. the rest of the carb is clean. anyways, now its 100% clean all the way to the last corner. turned it on, same sh*it. total hesitation. i was checking for the red plug, not sure if you meant the fuses but they are both good. now i will check the on off switch. man pure frustration...
The On/Off switch will not cause a problem with one or two cylinders. It will affect all of them. If that much crud came out of our of your carbs then I would recommend a full brake down and ultrasonic clean of your carbs. If you were not so damn far from the states I would recommend sending them to Randy at RPM. He would send them back properly cleaned and balanced close enough to bolt on and ride. Maybe you should do that anyway...
im certain i found the problem this time for real. i checked the coils but i didnt check the pickup coils and i should have, because it seemed to be something with the ignition. anyways, one of the pickups burned through, it even still smells:
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11855922_894534023973507_4130457567620537897_n.jpg?oh=d5abca2e85c68b83d53ea122bb9b437e&oe=56384C35)
anyone got a pair lying around?
Quote from: FJmonkey on August 07, 2015, 12:02:15 PM
The On/Off switch will not cause a problem with one or two cylinders. It will affect all of them. If that much crud came out of our of your carbs then I would recommend a full brake down and ultrasonic clean of your carbs. If you were not so damn far from the states I would recommend sending them to Randy at RPM. He would send them back properly cleaned and balanced close enough to bolt on and ride. Maybe you should do that anyway...
i did that this morning. until the last piece. 100% clean and set up after manual.
If you unplug the leads from the pick up coils at the ignition box, check the ohm values at that point, you should get between 149 to 182 ohms resistance. Any less or more is no good.
Looking at the picture, I think you may have found the culprit.
Lots of pickup coils on FleaBay. I know you are anxious to ride, but unfortunately you may have to wait.
Carbs are clean and no flooding, that's a good thing.
yeah i guess no more riding before i leaving to vacation. i dont even need to get out the multimeter. it smells burned and its molten. i only find one. strangely the ones from the 1200 only have one coil. i found this one on ebay. looks like it could fit. what you guys think?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-Radian-600-86-88-FJ600-84-85-FZ600-86-87-coil-governor-pickup-base-/331319000090?hash=item4d2426bc1a&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-Radian-600-86-88-FJ600-84-85-FZ600-86-87-coil-governor-pickup-base-/331319000090?hash=item4d2426bc1a&vxp=mtr)
Quote from: element303 on August 07, 2015, 12:25:38 PM
yeah i guess no more riding before i leaving to vacation. i dont even need to get out the multimeter. it smells burned and its molten. i only find one. strangely the ones from the 1200 only have one coil. i found this one on ebay. looks like it could fit. what you guys think?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-Radian-600-86-88-FJ600-84-85-FZ600-86-87-coil-governor-pickup-base-/331319000090?hash=item4d2426bc1a&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-Radian-600-86-88-FJ600-84-85-FZ600-86-87-coil-governor-pickup-base-/331319000090?hash=item4d2426bc1a&vxp=mtr)
Here's a tool that you can use to determine the assembly's compatibility between years and models on your own:
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/parts.html (http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/parts.html)
Enjoy the vacation. :good2:
thank you. well the part numbers are not the same but if i swap the pickups itself, they seem to look the same. maybe the base is not the same size but if i just use the coils it should work or no? they look identical.
Check the rest of the wiring that goes to and from the damage. Make sure that a problem in a different location did not cause this problem. You may burn another pick up if the ROOT cause is not fixed. Or worse, burn up your FJ.
the whole wiring looks as new. its pretty impressive. the bike has been standing for 15 years. its only the left pickup coil. everything else is ok.
I would pass on the Radian coils.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=5863.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=5863.0)
According to the Yamaha microfische the following FJ models share the same coils as your bike:
This Yamaha 36Y-81671-10-00 BASE,PICKUP is used on these models and components:
1984 FJ1100L PICKUP COIL GOVERNOR
1984 FJ1100L PICKUP COIL-GOVERNOR
1984 FJ1100LC PICKUP COIL GOVERNOR
1984 FJ1100LC PICKUP COIL-GOVERNOR
1985 FJ1100N PICKUP COIL GOVERNOR
1985 FJ1100N PICKUP COIL-GOVERNOR
1985 FJ1100NC PICKUP COIL GOVERNOR
1985 FJ1100NC PICKUP COIL-GOVERNOR
1986 FJ1200S PICKUP COIL GOVERNOR
1986 FJ1200SC PICKUP COIL GOVERNOR
1987 FJ1200T PICKUP COIL GOVERNOR
1987 FJ1200TC PICKUP COIL GOVERNOR
hmm. well im not sure if the ring is the same size but i could simply install the pickups itself on my base. they def "look" exactly the same. i mean as long they have the same design to work with the same rotor... i dont think they have any different properties. after all they just pick up the signal from the rotor passing by.
i have one question though.. why the 1200 only have one pickup? how does that work?? i was a little confused when i saw that today
ok little update. i ordered those Yamaha Radian 600 '86 pickups on ebay cause there was nothing else to be found and they seem to be exactly the same. nt the plate, but the pickups itself. i did that once with my kawasaki and used pickups from a much newer model and mounted them on my base.
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/11850557_897137807046462_6298869961694371335_o.jpg)
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/t31.0-8/11864869_897137793713130_8242815573031170489_o.jpg)
needed to route the cables another way around but it should work. i didn't fire her up yet because I still have to paint the tank. i also made sure the rotor doesn't hit any of the pickups anymore. it looks like the bike fell or got a hit at the bottom of the case of that area which they sealed with silicon. maybe thats when the rotor bend and started hitting the pickup. either way, I'm sure there is enough space now and tomorrow I'm going to fire her up! i have high hopes that i can finally take her for a real ride!
Do those Radian pickups look backward, or is it just me?
Shouldn't the little metal sensor tabs face the rotor?
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 12, 2015, 04:40:13 PM
Do those Radian pickups look backward, or is it just me?
Shouldn't the little metal sensor tabs face the rotor?
They are facing inward... That's correct. Kind of an optical illusion I think.
Frank
haha it would be a big fail if they would face inward :P i would be sitting there waiting for it to fire up :diablo: cant wait for the morning to do that!
unbelievable, but still same issue. i just wanna dump it in the trash and keep walking. ok then back to the carb. its 100% clean and all floats are set to the perfect height. i guess i have to check the sparks again and if 1+4 are still lean, get those more rich with the float level. any suggestions how many mm i should set the floats if with (i think it was 22mm by manual) the spark is completely white? :bad:
im gonna need some more help. took out the carbs for the 6th time, adjusted the 2 lean carbs 2mm richer and the rich one 2mm less. just to see what comes out in the reading of the new sparks i bought again.
i dont know how it is possible but its still exactly the same. 1,4 completely white, 3 tends still to a good reading. white with very light brown at the bottom but still lean, and 3 totally black again...
what else can i do to adjust that? i dont remember seeing different size jets in the carbs. i pulled out the needles to see if i can adjust them with the clip but they only have one setting. i dont want to jump into any other things until the reading of the sparks is not right.
after i tried to adjust the floats the last time thought, it still hesitated in the same rpm ranges: 2000-3500 pretty bad, then it runs very strong and clean until 5000 and after that i can barely get it higher even with full throttle, but compared to the last time i drove it, it ran much more powerful between 3500 and 5000. so something changed to the better.
what else can i do?
Did you rule out a vacuum leak? Replace the o rings on the intake manifolds. Carb boots look ok with no cracks?
Re: Black plug, are you absolutely sure the choke circuit is *completely off* on that carb?
Even a slight trickle of fuel will soot up the plug. To be sure, install a soft compression spring on the choke slider rod, pushing the choke rod all the way to the right.(off position) A soft spring is all that's needed.
I'm running out of ideas.
im sure the choke is off. at least i can see it from the top of the carb that the whole linkage is moving. ok talking about vacuum leak. i currently have the airfilter box removed because i wanted to install single airfilters and because i knew already before i have to pull the carbs out more than once. could the 6 hoses that exit the carb cause any problem? the 4 thinner ones are only to drain if im correct and run down at the side of the bike. but what about the 2 larger ones? where do they go? i read here somehwere in the forum that they run also to the side of the bike and then get into a loop but there is nothing to connect them.
Quote from: element303 on August 13, 2015, 08:26:44 AM
unbelievable, but still same issue. i just wanna dump it in the trash and keep walking. ok then back to the carb. its 100% clean and all floats are set to the perfect height. i guess i have to check the sparks again and if 1+4 are still lean, get those more rich with the float level. any suggestions how many mm i should set the floats if with (i think it was 22mm by manual) the spark is completely white? :bad:
Wow, I read this post and you are having a hard time.
So how about a fresh pair of eyes.
Start over from the beginning...
Do a compression test.
Check spark strength for each cylinder by seeing how far it will arc to ground and you should be able to jump 1/4 inch and see hot blue spark. If not check for 12 volts to ign coils..Use ohm meter to check resistance of coils .
Did you get same spark on all plug wires? Now check each plug and see if it sparks to verify it works..sometimes they look good but have failed .
Now verify fuel level is good in each carb by attaching clear tube to bowl drain port and hold tube upright next to carb as you open drain screw and this will work as a sight guage to verify fuel is at proper level.. The engine must be started for this test so you will need all four set up and ready. It is best to remove gas tank and use a temporary fuel source...a radiator overflow tank works great for this test.
While performing this test you are watching for the fuel bowl level tubes you attached to maintain the proper level with the engine running , increase rpms and see f level drops and recovers equally on all carbs..fuel level may drop and not recover or overfill on bad needle and seat. Make sure to use a powerful fan to cool engine during this test.
When engine is cold and first started , touch the exhaust header pipe close to the head to check for heat..this is a light quick touch or you will burn yourself..the ones firing well get hot quick ,the colder ones indicate not firing.
Do these tests and then we can move to next steps.
You have not mentioned if you have stock air cleaner or what exhaust setup you have..Fjs that have sat for a while will end up with mice and nest in air box and also inside exhaust pipe..make sure these are not restricted or plugged.
Report back with your findings after you have completed all the tests I have asked for..
Good luck .
The 4 small hoses are your choke vent hoses, they should tuck in between the engine and the frame at the rear.
The 2 larger hoses are your vent hoses for the carb bowls. Very important. They need to be open and unobstructed and run down in the same location as the 4 choke vent hoses.
The atmospheric pressure inside the carb bowls must be equal to the outside ambient air pressure.
Any differences in pressure between the two *will* cause all kinds of weird fueling issues.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on August 13, 2015, 01:07:41 PM
The 4 small hoses are your choke vent hoses, they should tuck in between the engine and the frame at the rear.
The 2 larger hoses are your vent hoses for the carb bowls. Very important. They need to be open and unobstructed and run down in the same location as the 4 choke vent hoses.
The atmospheric pressure inside the carb bowls must be equal to the outside ambient air pressure.
Any differences in pressure between the two *will* cause all kinds of weird fueling issues.
That is one of the next steps. :drinks:
yes all hoses are open and hanging down in the right side. as for the clear tube, i just bought a new one cause i cant find the one i had to test the same on my kawa. i checked the coils, i even replaced them. i am certain its not that anymore. sparks have been replaced multiple times, just today again to make sure i have a clean reading. i will do the clear hose test now.
alright. latest update. i cant open the screw of the rich running carb #2 (which is the only one backfiring) but the other seems to be way too low. its somehting around 10mm below the bowl top i would say:
carb #1
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11855629_897571377003105_7655359370381944573_n.jpg?oh=2d59aba79be3667eaf1d71eedfe1dc99&oe=56795804)
carb #3
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/11229964_897573243669585_778084913996889145_n.jpg?oh=c97e2c0c6b6778ebc1ff924bfc9ec80d&oe=5682177C)
carb #4
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11214331_897573257002917_853799253552714638_n.jpg?oh=112b3e2db477d005b1ec247f1605e501&oe=56806195)
also, there seem to be gas leaking every time i turn the bike on from either the right gas hose in, or next to it the right vent hose. it stops after a few seconds.
right now all 3 lean carbs are about 2mm lower than the recommended float level setting. can this really be only the float level? i mean 10mm is a lot. how much should i raise the floater from the 22mm that are recommended?
Looks low to me.
We have the fuel level info. saved over in the carb files. http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3592.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3592.0)
thank you so much. i was searching for that post the past 10 minutes. im thinking about to replace the hoses too. maybe something is stuck in there too
carb body line is basically the bowl gasket line right? i dont understand how it can be THAT off if im already below the recommended height of the manual (22mm). i guess the only thing i can do it bend it more to the extreme and check if the fuel level changes with the clear hose. im gonna go buy some new fuel hose too. the one i have is old.
your fuel level is low..was the engine running when you checked it?
Quote from: element303 on August 13, 2015, 03:40:45 PM
carb body line is basically the bowl gasket line right? i dont understand how it can be THAT off if im already below the recommended height of the manual (22mm). i guess the only thing i can do it bend it more to the extreme and check if the fuel level changes with the clear hose. im gonna go buy some new fuel hose too. the one i have is old.
Element303......I think you are confusing "float measurement" with "fuel level measurement". Those are 2 vastly different measurements. Look in your manual, if you have one, for your year of FJ. My Yamaha manual and my Haynes manual both have illustrations.
If/when you do the "fuel level" procedure (recommended) make sure that the engine is running while you do it. If the transparent gas line you're watching appears to have a bubble in it, shake the line 'til it burps the bubble free. DON'T BLOW ON THE LINE TO DISLODGE THE BUBBLE. Blowing on the line won't work, and screws up the reading.
FjLee 84 FJ1100 Denver CO
no i didnt confuse it. in the link it says the fuel level have to be 3mm more or less below the carb body. im just asking where exactly is the "line" of the carb body. i guess where the bowl is connected to the carb (bowl gasket height). just want to be sure i understand it right. i might wrote it confusing but i FIRST adjusted the float level of the bowls to the 22mm recommended in the manual and then today checked again the fuel level. the float was perfect and way too lean as the fuel level test confirms.
anyways, i took the carb out two more times. one time i bend it so far that the float already touched the bowl top when closing, installed it, and flooded. bend it back little more to the maximum possible position and STILL too lean. so the issue is the carb and fuel level still, but for some reason i dont understand, the carbs still run too lean even in max float setting. if the floats would fill with gas, which i know they dont, it would be too rich and not too lean right?
im really out of ideas and i think im gonna give up and just prepare for my asia trip instead. i wasted a week now and wasnt able to fix the issue and im pretty frustrated. im out of ideas..... i know its the float level... but i cant seem to adjust it.
Quote from: Mark Olson on August 13, 2015, 04:28:53 PM
your fuel level is low..was the engine running when you checked it?
yes it was
Quote from: element303 on August 13, 2015, 05:46:39 PM
no i didnt confuse it. in the link it says the fuel level have to be 3mm more or less below the carb body. im just asking where exactly is the "line" of the carb body. i guess where the bowl is connected to the carb (bowl gasket height). just want to be sure i understand it right. i might wrote it confusing but i FIRST adjusted the float level of the bowls to the 22mm recommended in the manual and then today checked again the fuel level. the float was perfect and way too lean as the fuel level test confirms.
The correct fuel level is what you ultimately want to achieve. You want the fuel level in all 4 carbs to be the same, and you want the fuel level to be at the correct level.
When the above 2 "fuel level" conditions are met, the "float level measurement" should be approx. as the manual says. If it's not, then something is wrong. Such as varying degrees of friction on the float
pivot pins. Or the floats have varying weights. Or 1 or more of the float assemblies have been twisted or warped and that has the float/floats rubbing on the carb body in some fashion. The floats _MUST_ be able to freely pivot up and down, with a minimum of resistance. Or some wrong parts are installed, especially in the area of float needles & seats. Or the float needle seats are installed haphazardly.
A note here........on my USA 1984 FJ, bending float tab .010 inch changes fuel level about .040 inch.
FjLee 84 FJ1100 Denver CO
yeah something is absolutely weird here. i wounldnt be surprised if those morons messed with the carbs too, who sold me the bike. they installed master cyl for the clutch and brake from some scooter and the clutch doesnt even disengage. everything looks fine to me inside the carb, everything moving freely, the needles work well. i just dont get it really... unless they installed floats from another carb but they seem to look the same like other pics. i just want it to have a good fuel/air ratio.
Quote from: element303 on August 13, 2015, 06:37:57 PM
yeah something is absolutely weird here. i wounldnt be surprised if those morons messed with the carbs too, who sold me the bike. they installed master cyl for the clutch and brake from some scooter and the clutch doesnt even disengage. everything looks fine to me inside the carb, everything moving freely, the needles work well. i just dont get it really... unless they installed floats from another carb but they seem to look the same like other pics. i just want it to have a good fuel/air ratio.
There are two kinds of fj carbs .... the gravity style and the fuel pump ones. If they got switched up and put the wrong needle and seat you will run lean. or maybe you have the fuel pump carbs on a gravity fed FJ.
Take a picture of the carbs from the top ... looking for a dual fuel inlet to confirm gravity carbs.
If confirmed then install proper needle and seat for gravity fed carbs.
This could be it , Hang in there . :praising:
also what size main jet and pilot jet is installed? If they messed with it before you got it maybe it is wrong.
right now its back installed. what i have to look for? dont remember the sizes yet. was hard to read. i mean it could be all kind of things, all the way to the valve clearance or possible ignition timing? as far as i saw on the pickups there was no way to adjust. but the first thing that need to be fixed is the fact that the fuel level in the floats is too low. until then everything else is a waste of time to check. are there any pics that show the difference between the 2 carb types? i really appreciate everybody trying to help. cant believe im 100 posts into it and still have the same issue.
It's simple, no picture needed, the gravity carbs have 2 fuel line inputs, one for carbs 1/2 and the second for carbs 3/4. The fuel pump carbs have only 1 fuel line input located in the center between carbs 2 and 3.
Here is the discussion on the differences in the float needle seat sizes between gravity vs fuel pump carbs: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9836.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9836.0)
oh ok well it have 2 inputs.
Quote from: element303 on August 14, 2015, 09:40:50 PM
oh ok well it have 2 inputs.
OK, so you have the correct gravity fed carbs.
Now order new needle and seat and install them.
I would highly recommend getting a complete carb kit from RPM.
It comes with all new stuff and solves worn out parts problems.
You can even get new jets included and adjustable main needles.
I believe the stock pilot jet is 37 and main 117.
If you have stock exhaust and air box , step up to 38.5 pilot ,118 main.
Hang in there..
Quote from: Mark Olson on August 15, 2015, 09:15:46 PM
I believe the stock pilot jet is 37 and main 117.
If you have stock exhaust and air box , step up to 38.5 pilot ,118 main.
The stock pilot on the USA bikes was 37.5.
Mikuni jets go in 2.5 increments so the next larger pilot is a 40.0 which is highly recommended on our FJ's.
Quote from: Mark Olson on August 15, 2015, 09:15:46 PM
Quote from: element303 on August 14, 2015, 09:40:50 PM
oh ok well it have 2 inputs.
OK, so you have the correct gravity fed carbs.
Now order new needle and seat and install them.
I would highly recommend getting a complete carb kit from RPM.
It comes with all new stuff and solves worn out parts problems.
You can even get new jets included and adjustable main needles.
I believe the stock pilot jet is 37 and main 117.
If you have stock exhaust and air box , step up to 38.5 pilot ,118 main.
Hang in there..
the needle seat is good, the o-ring is new, the needle condition is good as well. the floats are moving freely as they should... i honestly dont know if i should spend more than $100 if nothing of those kids is really in any bad condition or broken just to see that i have the same issue later. shouldnt it be flooding if they were bad and not be too lean?
My thinking is you may have the wrong needle and seat. Although they look good to you and fit the hole, might be from another bike.
well im going to vacation on tuesday. im just gonna leave it as is and deal with it when im back. i would still like to say thank you to all of you for helping me to get to the bottom of this problem. ill find it when im back. see you in october and be safe on the road. :bye2:
hey guys. couple months later but im back on this side of the planet. i took out the carbs again and left them a day in pine sol, minus the rubber parts of course. seemed to clean it up pretty good. i adjusted them once again perfectly to the 22mm floater height and mixed the parts up instead of using the same parts in the same carb as before. lets see whats the result after im getting gas and fire her up. either way: just want to say hi to everybody!
Hey guys. Hope everybody is fine. I havent touched the bike in a long time now but finally got the motivation to continue. I had similar issues with my dune buggy in the Philippines and it turned out to be the fuel cock. They are both vacuum cocks. I just want to throw in a quick question. When I suck at the vacuum hose that is connected to the tank, gas should flow freely right?
Quote from: element303 on July 02, 2016, 10:45:57 AM
I just want to throw in a quick question. When I suck at the vacuum hose that is connected to the tank, gas should flow freely right?
No where is the vacuum hose connected to "the tank"
The vacuum hose is connected on one end to the petcock, the other end connected to the vacuum port on the #1 carb intake manifold.
Leaving the hose connected to the petcock, disconnect the end of the hose that connects to the intake manifold and *lightly*suck, you should hear a click, the petcock should open and gas should flow.
Stop sucking and the petcock should close.....no gas, not even a dribble, should flow from the petcock.
Exactly. I need to fill in some more gas in the tank later to be sure its working. I took the carbs apart again right now cause I havent used it in a few months but they are still clean as new. When I suck I can hear that something is closing inside the petcock but now gas or very little is flowing. Thats why I want to fill in some more to be sure its not too empty right now to freely flow. Then I will check again the fuel level of the carbs with the hose while running. Thank you buddy
Filled in some gas, works perfectly. Back to test the carbs I guess.
Be sure that the two vent hoses connected to the white plastic T fittings are clear of obstruction. This is where the float bowls get atmospheric pressure. When you have the carbs off, be sure the holes in the roof of the float chambers are open to the fittings that the hoses connect to. You said something about fuel coming out(or not coming out) with the carbs on the bench. The fuel will surely come out those two hoses when the carbs are turned over.
Good luck 303,,
Cheers
Simon