G'day all, I think I will have to stop looking at my bike while I wait for my brake parts to arrive. :dash2:
My forks developed a leak a while back so I fasioned a "Fork Mate" from some plastic I had lying around and fixed the issue, I thought.
Last night I discover the LHS fork is leaking again.
Can I simply remove the seal without pulling the leg to bits ?
I've replaced my seals the propper way before but it occured to me that if the Dust seal can slide up and down, why can't the oil seal. After I remove the retaining clip ofcourse.
I'm not trying to shirk the expense of it all, I just don't want to have too much more to do before Grafton.
After all, its only 28 sleeps away.
Be Good
Macca
How long has your fork oil been in service? Might need to change it anyway. The leaking means that one or both of your forks no longer have the correct amount of oil. You can service your forks without removing them from the bike, the upper part at least can stay bolted on. I prefer to pull them so I can make sure they are properly flushed out. Got any mates near by that have done forks before?
Quote from: FJmonkey on February 13, 2015, 03:20:53 PM
How long has your fork oil been in service? Might need to change it anyway. The leaking means that one or both of your forks no longer have the correct amount of oil. You can service your forks without removing them from the bike, the upper part at least can stay bolted on. I prefer to pull them so I can make sure they are properly flushed out. Got any mates near by that have done forks before?
Quality question Mark.
I'd say a couple of years at least.
I will try replacing the fork oil and see what happens.
Thanks for the advice.
I recently fixed a leaking seal with a fork mate, Fixed it for a few weeks then let go big time out on a ride...The oil ended up in my brake pads ruining them which
added another $130 to the cost plus poor brakes. I dont think you'd want that to happen a long way from home..
ken
I had one fork seal let loose on my '86 600 CBR, the rotor on that side was worn way past minimum and the pads were gone. Not sure how the rotor ate it but it was an expensive repair. Now it is something I check when I stop during rides. Just like the chain and other simple visual stuff. That is how I noticed oil leaking on my rear wheel, rode it home avoiding corners...
I haven't taken forks apart to change seals in quite awhile. I've been applying this method instead.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205643 (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205643)
Kind of messy. I use old engine oil. Follow up by flushing them up real good with charcoal lighter. Leave the forks upside down with their caps out for a day or two, then re-assemble everything.
I await the lessons and scolding from the ....., on the above.
The fork(s) will need to be removed from the triple clamps (you may as well do both while you're at it.
In order to get the seal out, you will have to remove the damper rod bolt and separate the fork tube from the slider.
There is a way that I've seen to get the seal out without pulling the fork apart.
Remove the fork from the clamps,
Remove the spring,
Remove the dust cap and retaining clip,
Add oil to within a few inches of the top with the tube extended,
Replace the fork cap
Arrange a fulcrum so you can press down on the fork with a long lever arm,
Press down on the top of the fork with the fulcrum and oil pressure will eventually push the seal out of the slider.
It will either work as described or it will destroy the seal and you'll be back to pull the fork apart.
EDIT: Oops, Marty beat me to it.
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on February 13, 2015, 04:23:38 PM
I haven't taken forks apart to change seals in quite awhile. I've been applying this method instead.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205643 (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205643)
Kind of messy. I use old engine oil. Follow up by flushing them up real good with charcoal lighter. Leave the forks upside down with their caps out for a day or two, then re-assemble everything.
I await the lessons and scolding from the ....., on the above.
That should work well. Although not a formally described procedure in any manual, it is an old mechanics trick loosely referred to as hydraulic jacking, a good way to remove blind bushes too.
My only comment would that it is a method most often used in the absence of a special tool where there is no other way of doing something or when it's faster.
In reality, by the time you set all that up, you could have the leg apart and half assembled again.
If you weigh up the time/messing about/setting up factor vs the conventional method, I'm not sure if there is an advantage.
Noel
I love the idea of "Jacking" the Seal out with Hydraulics :good2:, although as Noel says I could have the things apart and half way reassembled by the time I waited for the concrete around the Decking post to set. (I've looked around and I don't have anything that would assist at this house).
I think I'll bite the Bullet and buy a set of seals and do the job right first time.
Thanks everyone for your advice.
I love this forum. :good:
Be Good.
Tony.
Tony, make sure you get Yamaha (OEM) seals. The aftermarket seals tend to fail quickly. Not my personal experience as I have only used OEM seals. Others may chime in regarding how much money they saved with aftermarket seals, then having to do the job twice and still buy the OEM seals anyway.
Quote from: FJmonkey on February 13, 2015, 05:22:03 PM
make sure you get Yamaha (OEM) seals. The aftermarket seals tend to fail quickly, then having to do the job twice and still buy the OEM seals anyway.
Been there, done that. More than once. Leak Proof seals, are anything but!
Strictly OEM (or RPM Racing sourced) ones from now on. :good2:
Had trouble with my seals leaking repeatedly. I think it was the clear coat under the seal seat. after removing all the old clear and cleaning the seat I have not had a repeat leak..
Quote from: roverfj1200 on February 13, 2015, 07:03:35 PM
Had trouble with my seals leaking repeatedly. I think it was the clear coat under the seal seat. after removing all the old clear and cleaning the seat I have not had a repeat leak..
Good catch, if the seat had clear coat then it could degrade and compromise the sealing surface. It would weep out on the outer side of the seal. One more tool in the mental tool box, thanks...
My wife's SUV had chrome rims that caused an air leak. Same problem, the chrome eventually failed and the tire was seated against cracked chrome. Ironically, shortly after buying two new expensive tires and paying to get the wheels fixed, a teenage son totaled the vehicle... :dash2: :dash2: :dash2:
Quote from: ribbert on February 13, 2015, 05:02:37 PM
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on February 13, 2015, 04:23:38 PM
I haven't taken forks apart to change seals in quite awhile. I've been applying this method instead.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205643 (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205643)
Kind of messy. I use old engine oil. Follow up by flushing them up real good with charcoal lighter. Leave the forks upside down with their caps out for a day or two, then re-assemble everything.
I await the lessons and scolding from the ....., on the above.
That should work well. Although not a formally described procedure in any manual, it is an old mechanics trick loosely referred to as hydraulic jacking, a good way to remove blind bushes too.
My only comment would that it is a method most often used in the absence of a special tool where there is no other way of doing something or when it's faster.
In reality, by the time you set all that up, you could have the leg apart and half assembled again.
If you weigh up the time/messing about/setting up factor vs the conventional method, I'm not sure if there is an advantage.
Noel
Yeah, some bush mechanics go outside the square but effectively get tha job done. Some love the journey on roads less travelled. Off topic maybe, but this ruff bastard uses screws and a screwdriver on tha big ends! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVuKp5M3de8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVuKp5M3de8)
(apologies....it`s Saturday & I`m in tha shed playing with me new/ second hand compressor tools....just found out those air hammer thingies won`t undo my shock nut on the sidecar!...so had a breather with tha computer.)...as you were. :drinks:
Another benefit to disassembling your forks to change the seals, is that you can inspect the fork bushings while you're in there.
Depending on how many miles you have on your FJ, you might want to consider replacing the bushings while you have them apart.
If the "Teflon" coating has worn off of them to the point where they are showing "Copper" then they probably should be replaced. :drinks:
Alan, one more good nugget on the forks. Inspect the bushings, they are designed to be a wear item. They are also easy to replace and not break the bank.
They are not too difficult to get apart Tony, and you can then really clean the guts out of them with Kero etc, really get rid of the old oil. I put in new springs/seals/RPM valves/bushes etc when I did mine last year at our Manshed Day. That bottom bolt in each leg can be a pain to remove.
Probably the first time in 12 years the forks have been apart, but it's worth the effort.
Have a look here Tony, couple of decent videos I studied before doing mine as well, down the page a bit http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=10474.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=10474.0)
(//) I got these plastic guards from a Triumph fork set. I have not had any leakage since I put them on.
As for changing out the seals, the only thing that makes the job difficult, really is that 12mil allen bolt in the bottom. They are installed with some sort of Locktite/sealant from the factory. A half inch impact is what I use. Sometimes heat is needed to break them loose. The damper rod can be held from the top with a hex tool (cant remember the exact size) on a long extension but that method is always a messy PITA.
Wear on the bushings can be the root cause of seal failure. You can look for this before you begin disassembling the forks.
I always disassemble the forks for inspection and cleaning. I do however have all the proper suspension tools and have done at least 1000 forks over the years...
One tip for breaking loose the lower bolt is to heat it up prior to removing to soften the Loctite. For this I use an old soldering gun. I simply hold the tip against the head of the bolt until I can smell the Loctite/oil burning off and then normally it will come right out. Makes the job much easier.
Quote from: the fan on February 15, 2015, 01:48:02 PM
I always disassemble the forks for inspection and cleaning. I do however have all the proper suspension tools and have done at least 1000 forks over the years...
One tip for breaking loose the lower bolt is to heat it up prior to removing to soften the Loctite. For this I use an old soldering gun. I simply hold the tip against the head of the bolt until I can smell the Loctite/oil burning off and then normally it will come right out. Makes the job much easier.
that is a great idea with the soldering gun ....Awesome tip. :good2:
A quick tip....cut the corner off a baggie and put over the top of the tube before sliding the seal on. It eliminates the possibility of damaging the seal lip. Also works on countersprocket seals.
Thank you every one for your advice. :good2:
I chose the Sooks way and serviced the forks without changing the seals.
This all started as a fill in while waiting for my Brake re build kit to arrive.
I flushed each fork leg with the leftover fork oil from there last service which worked out well. I have enough fork oil after this round to do the same thing next time.
The brake bits arrived so I completed all tasks yesterday and have just returned from a 70K shake down ride.
Everything is fantastic.
The bike seemed to glide over the road with my serviced forks and the brakes are heaps better than they have been in years.
Some one from this forum suggested a great way to bleed the front brakes. That is to release the bleeder and gently squeeze the lever, lock the bleeder and release the lever. It worked a treat. :yahoo: In fact I had lever feel after only doing this on each side for around 5 min.
I had full feel after about another 5 min. of proper bleeding. I couldn't believe how quickly the brakes came up.
Now all I have to do before the Wog 57 Rally is to replace the lid of my Trailer so my camping gear won't get wet.
Thanks again all.
Be Good.
Tony Mac
If you had a leak before, your still going to have a leak now Tony, seeing as you didn't change the seals. You don't want it pissing oil out all over your brakes during the rally and spoiling all the fun, and making it potentially dangerous. Seriously, it's not a hard job to do, and once done with decent seals will last a few years.
The fairing doesn't have to be removed, just put on the double stand, jack the wheel off the ground and remove, pull the legs out, replace seals and refit. I did mine complete with new bushes, valves, etc on my own in a day, even quicker if you've got a spare set of hands.
The hardest job is getting the Allen bolt on the end of the forkleg undone, but a rattle gun with the 10mm fitting makes short work of it.
Tony.
Fork oil will ruin brake caliper seals.
It makes them swell and lock up the pistons. Or it makes you have to pull the lever really hard before getting any braking, then you get way more than you want.
Additionally it will also ruin your brake pads.
Quote from: Tony Mac on February 21, 2015, 05:57:04 PM
Some one from this forum suggested a great way to bleed the front brakes. That is to release the bleeder and gently squeeze the lever, lock the bleeder and release the lever. It worked a treat. :yahoo: In fact I had lever feel after only doing this on each side for around 5 min.
I had full feel after about another 5 min. of proper bleeding. I couldn't believe how quickly the brakes came up.
Tony Mac
:biggrin: Tony, the method you "discovered" was what I was taught as an apprentice, used hundreds of times over 45 years, still do and how every mechanic I ever met did it. I had never heard of all these convoluted ways of doing it until joining the forum/internet.
The method you stumbled across is how it has been done since the beginning of time.
I do use speed bleeders these days which makes it much easier and less messy though.
Glad it worked well for you, nothing like a nice solid feel to the brakes.
Noel
Noel beat me to it :). Install some inexpensive Speed Bleeders and brake servicing becomes a doddle.
The first two steps in your process need to be reversed.
Squeeze the lever, crack the bleeder, close bleeder, then release lever.
Quote from: FJ_Hooligan on February 26, 2015, 01:43:52 PM
The first two steps in your process need to be reversed.
Squeeze the lever, crack the bleeder, close bleeder, then release lever.
....and put a hose on the nipple, to redirect the small geyser of brake fluid that will erupt when you crack open the bleeder port.
Quote from: Pat Conlon on February 26, 2015, 03:49:23 PM
....and put a hose on the nipple, to redirect the small geyser of brake fluid that will erupt when you crack open the bleeder port.
And run the open end of the hose to the bottom of the container, this will prevent any accidental reversal and suck air back into the system.