As we close out 2014...
http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/07/29/best-sport-touring-bike-bmw-r1200rt-cycle-world-ten-best-bikes-of-2014/ (http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/07/29/best-sport-touring-bike-bmw-r1200rt-cycle-world-ten-best-bikes-of-2014/)
Sorry, the R1200RT is just butt ugly.
The front view of the fairing makes me think Angry Birds... :wacko3:
Joe
They're supposed to be pretty comfy for two-up riding, unlike a lot of other offerings that are out there currently. The price of one, precludes me from entertaining their ownership.
Quote from: FJ1100mjk on December 29, 2014, 04:42:42 AM
They're supposed to be pretty comfy for two-up riding, unlike a lot of other offerings that are out there currently. The price of one, precludes me from entertaining their ownership.
Yep, the wishbone front end and paralever rear end give a ride like nothing else. The F&R pivot points are only about a foot apart. Throw in electronically adjustable suspension on the fly, light weight, fabulous steering and it's a magic carpet ride with great handling and a lot lighter to throw around than the FJ in the twisties, but it's still not an FJ!
The big twin punches out great torque but the engine is something you either love or hate. I love them.
Noel
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 28, 2014, 11:09:26 PM
Sorry, the R1200RT is just butt ugly.
Well Pat, proof that beauty
is in the eye of the beholder, I particularly like the look of them. Not sure if I could own a bike I didn't like the look of. Fortunately I've never found one I like to ride that I don't like the look of.
Noel
I'm with Pat.
At first look I was ambivalent but the more pics I looked at, the less I liked it. :nea: :negative:
It just looks so WIDE. :shout:
Noel, I can get behind the technology though. :mail1:
I like svelte, nimble and smart ... in motorcycles too. :sarcastic:
If it was a BMW I was looking at, I think the F700GS would fit nicely in my stable between my FJ and KTM450exc. :dance:
Quote from: ribbert on December 29, 2014, 07:19:26 AM
....with great handling and a lot lighter to throw around than the FJ in the twisties, but it's still not an FJ!
By the nature of their design, the boxers "feel" lighter than they actually are.....According to the Cycle World article, the R1200RT weighs in at 587lbs.
I rode a R100RT in Germany and loved it, absolutely fell in love..that was a beautiful bike....but the new R1200Rt's, nope, they missed the boat. They actually look worse in person.
Angry Birds, yea, that's about right.
I'm sure they're terrific bikes, I would just be worried about Sigourney Weaver knocking me into a pit with a loader. "Get away from her, you bitch!"
I liked the front swingarm idea ever since riding a GTS1000 in the early 90's. Ducati Dave / Fazer Dave / GTS Dave obviously agrees, but he'll be the first to tell you that a GTS1000 doesn't fly worth a crap no matter how good a run you get off the embankment.
I agree with Pat as well, ugly with a capital U. Scrolling down on that link about those BMW's there seems to have been some kind of major recall on that BMW. Can it be true that there has been a fault in the German engineered machine! All I can say is they better perform like a dream for the high up in the clouds price that they ask for these machines. If you feel like some revs check out that HP4, what a beast! :hi:
Quote from: Pat Conlon on December 29, 2014, 12:20:22 PM
Quote from: ribbert on December 29, 2014, 07:19:26 AM
....with great handling and a lot lighter to throw around than the FJ in the twisties, but it's still not an FJ!
By the nature of their design, the boxers "feel" lighter than they actually are.....According to the Cycle World article, the R1200RT weighs in at 587lbs.
I rode a R100RT in Germany and loved it, absolutely fell in love..that was a beautiful bike....but the new R1200Rt's, nope, they missed the boat. They actually look worse in person.
Angry Birds, yea, that's about right.
Yes they feel light, but the late models only weigh 505 lbs dry without the panniers.
I guess that level of weather protection isn't going to come from a bikini fairing but I do like the look.
The bikes have improved significantly since '08 when they ditched the tractor gearbox for a motorbike one, along with a lot of other stuff, and again in '10 with the twin cam, big valve heads from the HP2, along with a lot of other stuff.
They're not everyone's cup of tea but remain a perennial favourite with reviewers and I just love the feeling that big twin working (as opposed to vibrating)
Yes, they do have a problem with the final drive that effects 3% of bikes and has been the case for a few years which is weird.
Speaking of ugly, I find this a head and shoulders winner in the ugliest production bike I have ever seen, the Harley shark nose.
(http://image.baggersmag.com/f/features/1102_hrbp_2001_harley_davidson_road_glide/35295045+w799+h499+cr1+ar0/1102_hrbp_02_z%2B2001_harley_davidson_road_glide%2Bdeck_view.jpg)
(http://www.ridermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/web-KWP_0883.jpg)
I looks like a front end loader with it's bucket raised, probably goes about the same speed but doesn't handle as well.
Posting this so late at night is like watching a scary movie before going to bed, I won't be able to stop thinking about it and it will give me nightmares. I'm scared I'll find one in the garage in the morning.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on December 30, 2014, 08:15:07 AM
Yes they feel light, but the late models only weigh 505 lbs dry without the panniers.
Noel
Yes, it's possible to remove the panniers to decrease mass and perhaps enhance handling. However, I don't know what use a dry weight is when it comes to actually riding a bike. Maybe it's useful if the bike runs out of gas, and you have to push the thing.
Maybe this particular BMW model is like other bikes that come to the table on the heavy side, that are ridden by magazine reviewers, and after they are ridden, comments are made like: "the extra pounds seem to disappear when moving." Or something else along those lines.
It seems to be pretty hard to not add pounds to a bike nowadays when all of the newfangled electronic novelties, safety features, and pollution control items are installed on them.
Quote from: ribbert on December 30, 2014, 08:15:07 AM
Speaking of ugly, I find this a head and shoulders winner in the ugliest production bike I have ever seen, the Harley shark nose.
(http://image.baggersmag.com/f/features/1102_hrbp_2001_harley_davidson_road_glide/35295045+w799+h499+cr1+ar0/1102_hrbp_02_z%2B2001_harley_davidson_road_glide%2Bdeck_view.jpg)
(http://www.ridermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/web-KWP_0883.jpg)
I looks like a front end loader with it's bucket raised, probably goes about the same speed but doesn't handle as well.
Noel
It looks like a UFO crash-landed on the front of it...................................
You know it's funny. Most touring bikes have their fairings filled with gauges, navigation, switches, power outlets, useful storage, etc........................The Harley has their fairing filled with.........................Speakers!
Their riders really do like to make as much noise as possible. :negative:
As a side note...........................According to the GPS on the Beemer in the link, in the original post. I have ridden that road a bunch of times(where they did the photo-shoot).........Excellent road! It's the back way into Prescott through Yarnell, and seldom a car on that road.................Lots of great twisties!
The 96 into Bagdad is a good one too.................
I guess I get lost on the definition of "sport" touring. These things are bigger than dedicated touring bikes when I started riding. To me, just because there is a "land barge" category that has become the accepted norm for touring doesn't mean a "sport" touring bike gets to bloat up to fill the gap!
As for the speakers on the Harey "baggers" - I never understand it when I see someone cruising in or out from the Stagecoach with open pipes and blaring speakers...
Quote from: fj1289 on December 30, 2014, 10:19:18 AM
I guess I get lost on the definition of "sport" touring. These things are bigger than dedicated touring bikes when I started riding. To me, just because there is a "land barge" category that has become the accepted norm for touring doesn't mean a "sport" touring bike gets to bloat up to fill the gap!
As for the speakers on the Harey "baggers" - I never understand it when I see someone cruising in or out from the Stagecoach with open pipes and blaring speakers...
I like this statement: "...It takes a pretty special machine to unseat the
BMW K1600GT as Cycle World's best sport-touring bike, but that's exactly what the new wasserboxer-powered BMW R1200RT is..."
I don't think the K1600GT weighing in at a hefty 718 lbs is sporty. Fast yes...
As most of the east coasters know, I had an 07 R12RT for a year and a half.. rode it to both ECR's in 2011. put about 11k miles on it and sold it.
Without bags it supposedly weighed 570# wet - including huge gas tank -filled. I've read that it had ~105 rwhp. So at 570 with 105 hp, that's pretty close to my 91 FJ weight/hp.
They're not much alike otherwise. The FJ was a rocket off the line while the RT had a crazily high first gear ratio. annoyingly tall and slow off the line. Any traffic mean lots of clutching. At speed, dropping a gear to pass they were pretty close but I'd still give it to the FJ. Just felt faster
Handling tight turns in the mountains.. surprise, I'd go with the RT. It was strangely light on it's feet and had wide bars that gave lots of control confidence. The FJ seemed long and low. great stability in fast sweepers. Tight stuff, well you guys know. Fast sweepers it was basically a wash between the two.
The RT has an enormous fairing with electric adjustable windshield and sat fairly upright with tons of legroom. and it had real cruise control. Huge 7.1 gal gas tank good for >300 miles. Mine had a Russel heated seat. Heated grips. Goes practically without saying that it was 10x more comfortable.. you could literally ride a whole tank of gas out of it in one sitting.
RT had a short valve adjust interval but it was WAY easier to do than an FJ.. screw/locknut. and hour and your done no shims. But the RT was loaded with other fancy potential complications that, if you believe the BMW boards, frequently screw up.. high pressure fuel system for FI, etc.. And if it took a dump on a road trip you'd be screwed where the FJ, 1. simple = no problems and 2. is for the most part very user serviceable. I never had any serious problems with mine, but the constant drone of complaints kept me nervous about it. Not much that can go wrong is cheap to fix.
I've never been a fan of the BMW flat twin. The last one I rode was some time ago, an R1100RS, the first of the "oil heads". It had two things I couldn't get on with. Firstly the gearbox was terrible. Huge klonks every change. The FJ is much smoother changing clutchless than the BM was with the clutch. And you will have to change gear a lot because the engine is surprisingly inflexible. It wouldn't run below 3,500 rpm, it's not that there's no power it was that the engine got out of balance and shook about. I took a roundabout in third gear and was nearly bucked off! I had to use 2nd gear to ride through town. Dropping below 65mph meant changing out of top gear.
To be fair it was an effortless high speed cruiser and the Telelever forks work well.
As I said that was a long time ago, maybe they've better now.
"Sport Touring" must mean something different in Europe - it's what we call a Hayabusa!
Stuart
What I noticed with my adventure on the early, 1980 R100RT (before the paralever drive shafts) was the pinyon creep.
Letting off the gas mid corner would cause the back end to settle, scraping all kinds of things, and yes, now that you mention it, the grearbox was clunky. Smooth was the style that bike required.
I chalked it up to the quirkiness of the bike....gotta remember, in the early '80's it seemed that every bike had its quirks.
Still, it was a pretty bike.
Don't even know where to start on this. I like the old Boxer's. Like Pat I owned an early 80's RT100 and put over 100.000 miles with probably half of that 2 up. Through an evolution of events it was the last bike in pile of bikes I had at the time. As a side business I had a dealer license and purchased bikes and cars from salvage pools and wholesaled them out. I went through lots of bikes because most dealers wouldn't bid on them.
I fixed the RT100 up and thought wow, what a pile of shit. But it grew on me. Some of the good was well balanced, hard steel construction, extremely easy to work on, changing a tire was a breeze, large fuel tank, good fairing and saddle bags. At any one day I could ride it across country and not give it a thought. Because the weight was low it did feel light. You could come up to a stop sign and balance it nicely for sometime without putting your foot down. You could lay the BMW over resting on the heavy cast valve cover and pick it back up easily. I did that a number of times to a install a new tire. Pulling the heads and cylinders was child's play. Those type of features probably is why they were used in the DAKAR races.
Some of the con's was the shifting was archaic, clunky and loose, dry clutch. The power was nothing to write home about, in fact I though it was good in the respect that it kept you out of trouble. It would cruse nicely on the freeway all day long but the acceleration was another matter. It would just kind of build up power. The opposed twin (Airhead) is good for cooling but on a 105 degree day your toes would roast. A real pain to change a clutch. And drive shafts do require maintenance, the spines are not something you can casually check and most of the time when they fail it is without warning. Then there is the is the weird TQ effect in a corner. You get use to that.
Fast forward to the new models, I have been tempted a few times to buy a newer Boxer but as with most new bikes they have become complex and there are things that I can't fix on the road. Frankly it scares me. I ride alone at times and when I get down in Nevada in the middle of no where and have a problem then I could be screwed. I have a neighbor that has a BMW and reviewed his servicing and repair bills.. Thank you but no way...
As for "Best Sport Touring bike" in 2014 I think you have to figure out what term "Sport Touring" means now days. Marketing term. To me that BMW is a touring bike plain and simple. As with most bikes it will go around a corner.
I am old and think I will stay with old school bikes. As with most here take pride in the fact that I can fix my own machine if needed. The FJ stays.
George
"I am old and think I will stay with old school bikes. As with most here take pride in the fact that I can fix my own machine if needed. The FJ stays."
George
My feelings exactly. Dave
With the BMW bikes I don't think there are many issues with the engines, it's their final drives. As George said, they grenade without any warning. Just read the Iron Butt Rally reviews/stories. A lot of riders drop out because the final drives blew up. Some even carry a spare unit with them and change on the go.
On modern bikes I wouldn't be too worried about electrical or mechanical issues (at least with Japanese bikes). There are quite a few advantages of riding a modern bike over the FJ. I had a VFR 800 over the summer and loved it. Fuel Injected, lighter, more nimble and comfortable. I had to sell it because the riding position (while comfy) was just a tad too aggressive and set off my carpel tunnel in my right hand. Even with bar risers and a Sargent seat, it wasn't enough and my hand would go numb after about 30 minutes. Even though the VFR was a '98 I would have ridden it across the county and never worried about reliability.
Quote from: movenon on December 30, 2014, 08:33:01 PM
I think you have to figure out what term "Sport Touring" means now days...
That's the issue as I see it as well. I had the K12S and K13S bikes from BMW and those compare pretty well the the FJ IMHO. I've ridden the K1300GT and K1600GTL... touring bikes for sure. Haven't ridden the R1200RT, but I did go look at them this year. They had an issue with rear shocks breaking and recalled a bunch of them with an offer to fix or buy back... many of the owners took the buy back option, so there was a rash of low mile used RTs out there at like $4-5K off MSRP. It was tempting, but the bike is a touring machine and not something I could convince myself I needed.
If you want sport touring from BMW, try the 2009 or newer K1300S. Damn nice bike...
Frank
Fazer Dave's 916 has bar risers, and I love riding that thing. The 916 he bought off eBay 2 years ago has a Sargent seat; I picked it up in Connecticut and rode it from NY to Atlanta in basically one sitting; I loved riding that one even more. Andrew bought it from him in January and has put about 5,000 miles on it since then, including both 2014 east coast rallies and a track day. We are genetically lucky, I guess, the 916 suits us both for what I consider to be "sport touring." Although when I picture myself riding a long distance with nowhere to be, I still picture myself on the FJ.
Andrew has told me recently that he misses the dirt bike riding from his childhood. He will be working this coming semester and there is an off-road park halfway between work and home, so he will probably find himself a dirt bike this winter. He told me last night that after he graduates from college, he wants to do a knobbies-and-panniers kind of motorcycle tour of South America. I wouldn't be surprised to find him trailering both his 916 and a dirt bike to Boone in May.
Bill, what are the Desmo. valve adjustment intervals on the 916?
BMW's have come a long way since the 80's, perhaps more than most in their transition from agricultural machine to slick modern bike. Super smooth, no torque reaction, great gearboxes, and more grunt than an FJ. A proper modern bike in every sense, but to me, one of the few offerings that still has some character.
In a roll on from 50-100 mph in top gear, an '08 BMW (which have a very tall top gear) and the FJ are exactly neck and neck, the newer BM's have another 20 Nm's of torque, the current ones, another 15 hp, so they're no slouch. The FJ will of course beat it in a flat out drag race, but not by much.
Frank mentioned the K1300's. Bucket loads of power, but a long wheel base makes them more Autobahn blaster than twisties bike (according to owners, many of whom have had both)
George, even if they don't tick the "sport" in "Sports Touring" for appearance, they certainly do for riding, ask anyone who's tried to out run a cop on one on a curvy or twisty road. (Over 225 law enforcement agencies in the USA use them and another 150 countries use them as Police, ambulance and emergency services vehicles )
This is to be a stable mate for the FJ, not a replacement, and it's to do the same sort of riding so their is no point having something too similar, like an FJR for example.
My brother has an '09 BMW1200GS that he's put a 175,000 kms on, and yes, it has cost him a lot in service and repairs but I am lucky that is something I can mostly avoid. I have also always driven the sort of cars I advise others never to buy because they are money pits and unreliable.
Nobody does reliability and cheap running like the Japs, but they also do bland better than anyone else. They also have a knack for making last years model suddenly look like yesterdays bike, more so with cars. It's very hard finding a late model bike that has character. Many choices with lots of power but none I wasn't happy to give back or wished was in my garage.
George, as someone pointed out, along with all that whizzo technology does come relability, but when it does go pear shaped, yep, you're screwed.
It's an interesting point you raise, because even 30 year old cars have very little that can be fixed roadside and increasingly, diagnostics is becoming the most difficult part for DIY's.
Take a modern "fly by wire" throttle, it's not just a cable eliminator, it is sent information from a whole swag of systems, any one of which can shut it down independent of throttle input.
A modern BMW car exchanges hundreds of "electronic handshakes" per second. Truly scary stuff.
I don't even carry a box with a few basic tools in my wife's car anymore, no point.
A high level of membership with an auto club that includes vehicle recovery back home is about the best you can do these days. I have this for by bike as well.
The FJ is just about the end of an era (other than the ignition) when it comes to simple and accessible systems.
Nope, my FJ's not going anywhere either!
Noel
All good points Noel and you are correct. BMW's have come along way as with most of the new bikes but with a lot of complexity.
Last summer I was over in Portland with the wife on a small vacation and we are tooling down Stafford road and I see a bike and owner along side the road, I can tell he has a problem. I go on by and got thinking "shit man this guy probably needs some help" so I turn around and explain to my bride about helping this guy. I pulled up and introduce myself, he is a mature rider with a newer Honda. He said it just flamed out going down the road, dead.. He had checked all the normal things, switch's, fuel, fuses etc that he could get to. No good. I asked him what I could do to help and all he wanted to use my cell phone to call for a tow. As I was departing the area I got to thinking what has motorcycling evolved to. Now you need to belong to AAA to ride a bike.... (and have your cell phone)
There are places in Nevada and I am guessing in OZ that there isn't even cell phone service ! Let alone a tow truck that will travel over 50 miles without more cost. Now if you and the bike end up in some back water town, you are still stuck. They don't just tow you to the nearest dealer (that's another adventure).
I know what I feel is "the big dark cave and I know something is in there that will eat me" problem. I do know that new bikes are reliable up until they fail. About like a Lithium battery.
I do like the looks of a few of the newer bikes. Yesterday I ran across a photo of a new Ninja 1000 with bags and that looked closer to what I would call "Sport-Touring". http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,101506.0.html#.VKWLvnveeio (http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,101506.0.html#.VKWLvnveeio) . Steve can fill in the blanks on that.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/1651_04_06_14_8_02_06.jpeg)
All the rambling aside I have said before that if I ever get a different bike the FJ stays. It the best all around bike that I have ever owned.
George
Quote from: movenon on January 01, 2015, 12:23:33 PM
...Steve can fill in the blanks on that.
(http://fjowners.com/gallery/7/1651_04_06_14_8_02_06.jpeg)
Pictured is Scott's (FJScott) relatively new GREEN Ninja with matching hard bags. While awaiting Jeff's arrival the other morning, Fred, Scott and I were marveling at how well hidden the hard bag mounting system is on that bike. Very slick!
Scott seems very pleased with his toy. I'm told that it's pretty FAST, too! :good2:
Steve
Oops sorry Steve.. Got the name mixed.. Scott's bike was closer to what we call "Sport-Touring" at least that's my opinion. The BMW would be better for touring especially 2 up IMO. But it doesn't matter what you ride it only matters who you are. :good2:
George
I am guessing those bags are GIVI V 35's. They are contoured on the inside and mount to a tube type mount. Only a guess. To bad they don't fit the Wing Rack II system.
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycles/kawasaki-versys/kawasaki-versys-luggage.htm (http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycles/kawasaki-versys/kawasaki-versys-luggage.htm)
George
Re: 916, I think you're supposed to check 'em every 6,000 miles. I am told they, like FJ's, don't need adjustment most of the time. I will Ask The Man Who Owns One for details. He plans to do the belts over the winter.
They put the 916 engine in the ST4, I believe, but that bike always left me a bit cold, so I haven't been interested in the longer-service-interval variants they came out with since then. Apparently the 996 and 998 got improved valve hardware that can be retrofit for longer service intervals. Brad Martone had a 748 or 749 that he was selling a few years ago that had received those upgrades, which extended the interval to 16,000. If I had known how much I like the platform, maybe I would have made it a point to buy his; it was immaculate.
Ducati Dave has a 998 with my name on it (it made a brief appearance at the ECFR) and I will probably be looking for a Sargent seat and a good soft-bag solution. My only experience with luggage on one of those was the Eclipse panniers and tail pack that Dave loaned me to retrieve Andrew's 916 from New England. All the clothing I brought was either in the tank bag or on my body, so the only reason I needed the panniers was to carry the tail pack. I didn't fasten it on correctly so they moved and wound up rubbing against the rear wheel, wearing a hole in both the right pannier and the tail pack it was carrying. "PERFECT!"
The FJ would be far better for two-up sport-touring, but the rides I would take with a passenger these days are so short that the may as well occur on a 998. I still see myself crossing the country on the FJ, but for a shorter ride (Tellico with a cabin?) a 998 with a tank bag and some gym bags would be plenty tour-y enough.
Thanks Bill. I've always wondered....
Can you check the valve clearances yourself, or do you have to take it to a Ducati dealer?
If the dealer is the only option, aprox. how much would a Ducati dealer charge for this service?
I've been on tours that have exceeded 6k miles.
Checking 'em is reportedly easy with feeler gauges. Re-shimming them is a bit more involved, but Dave tells us it's a Saturday job, made a bit easier if you remove the motor from the trellis frame. I can't imagine any maintenance tasks that a Ducati dealer would do that Andrew or I couldn't do, and he plans to do the belts this winter just to baseline the bike. I think Andrew has put 5,000 miles on it in 2014, and I put 1,000 miles on it before that, so it is getting to be time.
For any machine shop work, that would need to be done by someone else. And definitely, the quickest way to performance would be to have it tuned by someone who knows their way around these things. I think his is running a bit rich, maybe there's some power to be had with a proper tune.
But given all the "Modifier Anonymous" work you have done on your '84, I can't imagine a Ducati maintenance item you couldn't do that a dealer somehow could.
Thanks Bill!
When you get into it, let me know how the valve check process turns out.... Happy New Year...Pat
Quote from: ribbert on January 01, 2015, 08:14:42 AM
Frank mentioned the K1300's. Bucket loads of power, but a long wheel base makes them more Autobahn blaster than twisties bike (according to owners, many of whom have had both)...
If those owners had K12S vs K13S, I'd agree... I had an '06 K12S and it didn't turn anything like the '09 K13S I had next. Typical of BMW, the K13S had something like 88 small changes based on the collective input on the K12S. An obvious one was the engine size increase, but that was drivability instead of power... the K12S was more highly tuned and made slow speed throttle response touchy.
The changes that really stood out were very minor geometry changes that, according to MC World, "make the K1300S carve corners like a mid-weight sport bike"... My FJ has a shorter wheelbase than stock with raised rear/lowered front and the K13S was just as fast on turn-in and held its own at Sonoma Raceway riding with mostly 600cc rice rockets. I miss mine, but Wiz is my child at this point and stays in the stable... the K13S had to go.
Still I have that wandering eye...
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mcd/4799278950.html (http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mcd/4799278950.html)
Frank
owner/operator maintainability is never a criteria for a "best of" selection by anyone in the business of selling NEW motorcycles. Let alone the fun:dollar ratio.
FJ's Forever
Quote from: Burns on January 05, 2015, 05:50:24 PM
owner/operator maintainability is never a criteria for a "best of" selection by anyone in the business of selling NEW motorcycles. Let alone the fun:dollar ratio.
FJ's Forever
Mike, you nailed it....
Quote from: Pat Conlon on January 05, 2015, 07:38:23 PM
Quote from: Burns on January 05, 2015, 05:50:24 PM
owner/operator maintainability is never a criteria for a "best of" selection by anyone in the business of selling NEW motorcycles. Let alone the fun:dollar ratio.
FJ's Forever
Mike, you nailed it....
Now let's be fair. How many VFR 800 V-Tec Interceptors would be sold if the marketing boys listed what was truly involved in doing your own valve adjustment on that particular valve system. Let alone advising their customers that valve adjustments on them can run upwards of $1,000. :shok:
And it ain't even a Ducati. :nea:
A Paean to a Sport Tourer
Good evening gentlemen,
After reading the various comments re: The Best Sport-Touring Bike, it may be true that the "Sport" part of sport touring has been diminished. Large heavyweight motorcycles are for "Touring"; however despite claims to the contrary, they seem to be lacking in the "Sport" department; and while there are true "Sport" motorcycles on the market, they seem to be lacking from the "Touring" aspect. No doubt there are exceptions to the rule; however they seem to be few and far between.
As it pertains to a combination of over the road and sport riding the FJ performs exceptionally well. While the design may be old, with the modern updates (suspension, tires, and brakes et al) it is anything but old, and all for much less than the cost of a new motorcycle. While 100 hp may be modest by today's standard, it remains in and of itself a considerable amount of hp. It remains competitive with both long distance and sport motorcycles.
Long service intervals are more than an advantage, they are a necessity. Hoping not to jinx myself or other owners, the overall reliability of the FJ seems to be quite good and well founded. As my over the road rides are usually unaccompanied, often fast paced and frequently in desolate and isolated surroundings, it is an important aspect which is appreciated.
There is also an auxiliary fuel tank utilized because often stops are few and far between; throughout the Western States there are still remnants of small town America left to explore and the extra range is needed during late or all night excursions. On other occasions mere curiosity gives rise to a desire to explore an intoxicating and beautiful, seemingly unending and almost overwhelming landscape.
Over the road journeys are exceptionally comfortable; yet should a situation arise where the "sport" aspect is encountered, to date the FJ has held its own against other motorcycles and the occasional encounter with an automobile; typically without regard to ambient conditions and at a moment's notice without fiddling with power modes or on the fly suspension changes. Especially at night when traveling at speed, unseen and potentially dangerous road surfaces are regularly encountered that simply do not allow time for 'on the fly" adjustments.
As far as comparative weight, statements about the BMW being lighter are incorrect, add in the weight savings from a modern exhaust and the lithium battery and the FJ is perhaps less. The high cost of repairs is almost a given as unlike the FJ, most new motorcycles are difficult to repair should an electrical or mechanical problem be encountered. The driveshaft is more complex than the chain (a 'weak link' in some BMW's) and with the extended life spans of modern chains they are almost a non issue – with few adjustments necessary.
As an aside: However unfounded the claims, it is a fact that the ''lecture'' on chains and auto lubrication was breeding somnolence. The "testimonials" cited have about as much validity as those quoted when the oil thread discussion gets heated. As shown in the videos, if you believe that a drop or drops of oil (in wet, dry or dusty conditions) at speed is beneficial, that is your uncontested prerogative. Gentlemen, please do not misconstrue, chain oilers just gotta work 'cause the model most recommended is made by Barnum, specifically the P.T. model. It is claimed to be better than beer, booze & broads – well better than the beer and booze anyways... It's positively true; there is even a bottle of Old Calhoun's Whiskey due & payable at the next WCR...! I know, I know... but someone had to say it, perhaps they will listen now...!
Back to the subject at hand: it has been said that pictures are quaint, so below is a video that emphasizes both aspects of Sport and Tourer; it is a compilation of rides in 2014. From November, some high desert footage (while perhaps foreboding I have never found it to be boring) traveling into a beautiful, almost intoxicating, painted sky; when after having left the far northern mountains of California, I ventured south to Texas, then traveled north through the Rockies on the way to Idaho before returning to California. Almost no traffic so late in the year, a most delightful ride. There is a clip of a storm front I was heading into, taken when I stopped to change my visor from tint to clear. Once in Idaho increased rain and a considerable amount of off road mud was encountered. When there is a discussion about dual sport riding, if tooling along is not your cup of tea, simply be judicious with the throttle and you will not tear up the tires nor fall off the 'edge' of the earth.
Heck, on some unknown back country road there were even wild animals encountered with asses not nearly as wide as the luggage seen on some motorcycles (true touring rigs, no doubt!); fortunately it did not affect the chain – only the fairing and a speck or two on the face shield – however Barnum's semi- automatic face shield cleaner saved the day... whew... ??? Seeing is believing...!
Okay, as usual it is mostly true and it all began in the early morning hours while crossing a bridge to who knew where when, once again, I was Wandering Aimlessly...
In closing, Happy New Year to everyone, remember to stay in good humor, laugh at ourselves from time to time (!) and of course always ride safe.
Midget
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAObr8z9Vr0&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAObr8z9Vr0&feature=youtu.be)
Excellent and informative post Mike, as usual, but the link comes up "this video not available" with a sad face.
Noel
Quote from: ribbert on January 10, 2015, 06:57:41 PM
Excellent and informative post Mike, as usual, but the link comes up "this video not available" with a sad face.
Noel
Video worked for me!
Mike ... A most excellent video portraying the true sports tourer.. The Mighty FJ... :good2:
Most excellent Mike , you are quite the road warrior .
Looking forward to the WCR . :drinks:
Excellent post and video Mike ! Thanks for the digital winter ride :good2:.. Makes me want to out and work on the FJ :biggrin: :biggrin:
George
Quote from: ribbert on January 10, 2015, 06:57:41 PM
Excellent and informative post Mike, as usual, but the link comes up "this video not available" with a sad face.
Noel
If you've got an Apple computer or iPad Noel, some videos won't work because Apple doesn't support flash content. My iPad can't play the video but the computer with windows system on it does.
Quote from: Bones on January 11, 2015, 12:54:18 AM
Quote from: ribbert on January 10, 2015, 06:57:41 PM
Excellent and informative post Mike, as usual, but the link comes up "this video not available" with a sad face.
Noel
If you've got an Apple computer or iPad Noel, some videos won't work because Apple doesn't support flash content. My iPad can't play the video but the computer with windows system on it does.
Thanks Tony, yes I tried on my iPad and iPhone.
Btw, have you settled into the fork upgrade yet?
Noel
Yes Noel, I got a pm from an esteemed member suggesting I play around with spacer length, so I pulled the cap off to shorten the spacer a bit when I realised I still had one more adjustment to go, so turned the preload right back to zero and settled with that. Rides well now.
Just a couple of days ago a mate came around with a 2009 Suzuki bandit, the abs model. He wanted me to compare it to the fj to get my thoughts on it ... A comparison between older and newer technology... It makes the fj seem, like an old diesel tractor as far as brutal acceleration goes, felt much lighter, for me at least a more upright comfortable position . i fell in love with it with in the 1st 100 metres after the front wheel reengaged the earth. he paid under 3k for it with a mere 18000kms on it. i wont sell my fj but i really want one of these aS MY MAIN RIDE. It was a sweet bike...
ken
Quote from: ken65 on January 11, 2015, 03:57:51 AM
Just a couple of days ago a mate came around with a 2009 Suzuki bandit, the abs model. He wanted me to compare it to the fj to get my thoughts on it ... A comparison between older and newer technology... It makes the fj seem, like an old diesel tractor as far as brutal acceleration goes, felt much lighter, for me at least a more upright comfortable position . i fell in love with it with in the 1st 100 metres after the front wheel reengaged the earth. he paid under 3k for it with a mere 18000kms on it. i wont sell my fj but i really want one of these aS MY MAIN RIDE. It was a sweet bike...
ken
Great videos Mike. Keep them coming. Gives me an incentive to get the new rear tire and 40t sprocket on now that it is around 32 deg and raining here. I joined another motorcycle forum a few months ago called two wheeled texans(twtex.com). It has members world wide and plans group rides both street and dirt plus get togethers in Texas. It has one of the biggest Suzuki Bandit forums on the web. Reading through their postings it becomes apparent that the Bandit is a very similar bike to the FJ only water cooled. The subjects covered in the bandit forum are almost exactly the same as the FJ forum! Better seats, suspension,lowered pegs, exhausts and performance. Although not a big seller the bandit has been around for some time and a few years ago was upgraded with FI. Dave
Quote from: TexasDave on January 11, 2015, 04:29:01 AM
I joined another motorcycle forum a few months ago called two wheeled texans(twtex.com). It has members world wide and plans group rides both street and dirt plus get togethers in Texas.
Dave
I somehow came across that forum a while back, and have been a lurker on it from time to time. Appears to be a great group of people, and that's coming from a Yankee. :biggrin:
They should be fun to hang with.
Quote from: Bones on January 11, 2015, 02:15:34 AM
Yes Noel, I got a pm from an esteemed member suggesting I play around with spacer length, so I pulled the cap off to shorten the spacer a bit when I realised I still had one more adjustment to go, so turned the preload right back to zero and settled with that. Rides well now.
That's good to hear, what length are your spacers?
Noel
Quote from: ken65 on January 11, 2015, 03:57:51 AM
Just a couple of days ago a mate came around with a 2009 Suzuki bandit, the abs model. He wanted me to compare it to the fj to get my thoughts on it ... A comparison between older and newer technology... It makes the fj seem, like an old diesel tractor as far as brutal acceleration goes, felt much lighter, for me at least a more upright comfortable position . i fell in love with it with in the 1st 100 metres after the front wheel reengaged the earth. he paid under 3k for it with a mere 18000kms on it. i wont sell my fj but i really want one of these aS MY MAIN RIDE. It was a sweet bike...
ken
The brand new price of a Bandit is only $12990, before you start haggling. A lot of bike for the money. A new FJR here starts at $25,000-$27000.
Noel
Quote from: Mike Ramos on January 10, 2015, 06:09:40 PM
As an aside: However unfounded the claims, it is a fact that the ''lecture'' on chains and auto lubrication was breeding somnolence. The "testimonials" cited have about as much validity as those quoted when the oil thread discussion gets heated. As shown in the videos, if you believe that a drop or drops of oil (in wet, dry or dusty conditions) at speed is beneficial, that is your uncontested prerogative. Gentlemen, please do not misconstrue, chain oilers just gotta work 'cause the model most recommended is made by Barnum, specifically the P.T. model. It is claimed to be better than beer, booze & broads – well better than the beer and booze anyways... It's positively true; there is even a bottle of Old Calhoun's Whiskey due & payable at the next WCR...! I know, I know... but someone had to say it, perhaps they will listen now...!
Midget
Mike, you have obviously had a bad first hand experience with an oiler. Those of us that use them would be keen to hear what you disliked about it and what problems you encountered.
Noel
I agree with Noel. The Bandit is alot of bike for the money. They offer one model with ABS and one without however Suzuki says they will only sell the ABS model in the UK. Don't know about Australia. There are some good deals on used ones but there are not alot out there.Later models come with FI and six speeds. On the Bandit forum of Two Wheeled Texans there are some examples of very high mileage Bandits. Dave
Good morning Gentlemen,
Thank you for the positive comments.
In answering the question about the chain oiler; it is only "obvious" if you can see the video.
It is the "semi automatic face shield cleaner" which saved the day...!
Smile, fellow & stay in good humor,
Ride safe,
Mike Ramos.
Hi Mike.
Is that a radar detector on top of your dash? If so looks quiet compact and I assume waterproof ?
Would not get too far at the speeds you can get away with here in NZ cops seem to be everywhere and a zero tolerance on speed at the moment.
Phil
Great video Mike!
I love the music choice when you were racing the cows. Nice pass to overtake that last usurper.
Well done! :hi:
Quote from: ribbert on January 11, 2015, 05:33:07 AM
Quote from: Bones on January 11, 2015, 02:15:34 AM
Yes Noel, I got a pm from an esteemed member suggesting I play around with spacer length, so I pulled the cap off to shorten the spacer a bit when I realised I still had one more adjustment to go, so turned the preload right back to zero and settled with that. Rides well now.
That's good to hear, what length are your spacers?
Noel
155mm Noel.
Quote from: CatTomb on January 11, 2015, 12:05:27 PM
Great video Mike!
I love the music choice when you were racing the cows. Nice pass to overtake that last usurper.
Well done! :hi:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Elephant_Walk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Elephant_Walk)
Quite appropriate music, sans the big ears and long trunks... I don't really know why I new the name and composer of the tune... Just getting old like my FJ...
Howdy MonkeyMark,
Holy Toledo (holy cow?) knowing that song makes you as old as the Preacher...! My grandfather thought it would be a fun song to use...
Funny thing, the post made fun of dozens of FJ owners & thousands of motorcycle owners who use wide saddlebags by comparing their saddle bags to the width of the ass end of a cow & everyone seems to see the humor and to get a laugh out of it.
The only complaints are from a few cows (sorry gentlemen!) and someone who "cannot" see the video and thus will not even answer the question put forth (as an aside no less).
I understand there was even another thread proffered about the mistake of 16'' wheels from the 1980's (?) & that the oilers did not make the article. Hmm, no wonder as it was about the same time that the new style chains were being introduced that made the oilers obsolete...
Ah yes, yet another denouement from the resident "scholar" however, as usual the focus is on the inessential while conveniently ignoring the essence of the discussion (or in this case the question) at hand.
Before this gets [further] into personalities I suggest taking it to the PM department, should there be such an inclination.
Keep smiling everyone and as always... ride safe,
Mike Ramos.
P.S. At a later date & when time permits, I will express my gratitude to other FJ owners who make the present day FJ such a pleasure to own and ride.
Awesome video (as usual) Mike!
I got a laugh out of the cows, especially the one that wanted to "Race".
Enjoyed it. :drinks:
You need a ride partner, Mike... Soon.
Quote from: Mike Ramos on January 12, 2015, 04:49:47 PM
.....and someone who "cannot" see the video......
Mike Ramos.
P.S. At a later date & when time permits, I will express my gratitude to other FJ owners who make the present day FJ such a pleasure to own and ride.
Yes Mike, I saw your video that night on my PC. Very entertaining and revealing, in fact I watched it several times over. It was well edited and maintained my interest from start to finish. You are indeed fortuneate to have such great country to explore and you certainly make the most of it. I agree entirely that the FJ makes a great all rounder for such adventures (that's why I have one) and at a cost less than most new bikes depreciate in a year and less than the service costs on one over several years.
Your post shows great insight into the benefits of FJ ownership and makes some very good points.
I look forward to future reports.
Noel
PS Will I get a mention? :biggrin:
Quote from: ribbert on January 14, 2015, 05:03:18 AM
Quote from: Mike Ramos on January 12, 2015, 04:49:47 PM
.....and someone who "cannot" see the video......
Mike Ramos.
P.S. At a later date & when time permits, I will express my gratitude to other FJ owners who make the present day FJ such a pleasure to own and ride.
Yes Mike, I saw your video that night on my PC. Very entertaining.......
Your post shows great insight into the benefits of FJ ownership and makes some very good points.
I look forward to future reports.
Noel
PS Will I get a mention? :biggrin:
:rofl: :drinks: