Best Sport-Touring Bike: ?

[ddlewis]

As most of the east coasters know, I had an 07 R12RT for a year and a half.. rode it to both ECR's in 2011.  put about 11k miles on it and sold it. 

Without bags it supposedly weighed 570# wet - including huge gas tank -filled.  I've read that it had ~105 rwhp.  So at 570 with 105 hp, that's pretty close to my 91 FJ weight/hp.   

They're not much alike otherwise.  The FJ was a rocket off the line while the RT had a crazily high first gear ratio.  annoyingly tall and slow off the line.  Any traffic mean lots of clutching.  At speed, dropping a gear to pass they were pretty close but I'd still give it to the FJ.  Just felt faster

Handling tight turns in the mountains.. surprise, I'd go with the RT.  It was strangely light on it's feet and had wide bars that gave lots of control confidence.  The FJ seemed long and low.  great stability in fast sweepers.  Tight stuff, well you guys know.   Fast sweepers it was basically a wash between the two.

The RT has an enormous fairing with electric adjustable windshield and sat fairly upright with tons of legroom.  and it had real cruise control.  Huge 7.1 gal gas tank good for >300 miles.  Mine had a Russel heated seat.  Heated grips.  Goes practically without saying that it was 10x more comfortable..  you could literally ride a whole tank of gas out of it in one sitting.

RT had a short valve adjust interval but it was WAY easier to do than an FJ..  screw/locknut.  and hour and your done no shims.  But the RT was loaded with other fancy potential complications that, if you believe the BMW boards, frequently screw up.. high pressure fuel system for FI, etc..  And if it took a dump on a road trip you'd be screwed where the FJ, 1. simple = no problems and 2. is for the most part very user serviceable.  I never had any serious problems with mine, but the constant drone of complaints kept me nervous about it.  Not much that can go wrong is cheap to fix.

[mz_rider]

I've never been a fan of the BMW flat twin. The last one I rode was some time ago, an R1100RS, the first of the "oil heads". It had two things I couldn't get on with. Firstly the gearbox was terrible. Huge klonks every change. The FJ is much smoother changing clutchless than the BM was with the clutch. And you will have to change gear a lot because the engine is surprisingly inflexible. It wouldn't run below 3,500 rpm, it's not that there's no power it was that the engine got out of balance and shook about. I took a roundabout in third gear and was nearly bucked off! I had to use 2nd gear to ride through town. Dropping below 65mph meant changing out of top gear.

To be fair it was an effortless high speed cruiser and the Telelever forks work well.

As I said that was a long time ago, maybe they've better now.

"Sport Touring" must mean something different in Europe - it's what we call a Hayabusa!

Stuart

[Pat Conlon]

What I noticed with my adventure on the early, 1980 R100RT  (before the paralever drive shafts) was the pinyon creep.
Letting off the gas mid corner would cause the back end to settle, scraping all kinds of things, and yes, now that you mention it, the grearbox was clunky. Smooth was the style that bike required.
I chalked it up to the quirkiness of the bike....gotta remember, in the early '80's it seemed that every bike had its quirks.

Still, it was a pretty bike.

[movenon]

Don't even know where to start on this. I like the old Boxer's. Like Pat I owned an early 80's  RT100 and put over 100.000 miles with probably half of that 2 up. Through an evolution of events it was the last bike in pile of bikes I had at the time.  As a side business I had a dealer license and purchased bikes and cars from salvage pools and wholesaled them out.  I went through lots of bikes because most dealers wouldn't bid on them.

I fixed the RT100 up and thought wow, what a pile of shit.  But it grew on me.  Some of the good was well balanced, hard steel construction, extremely easy to work on, changing a tire was a breeze, large fuel tank, good fairing and saddle bags.  At any one day I could ride it across country and not give it a thought.  Because the weight was low it did feel light. You could come up to a stop sign and balance it nicely for sometime without putting your foot down.  You could lay the BMW over resting on the heavy cast valve cover and pick it back up easily.  I did that a number of times to a install a new tire. Pulling the heads and cylinders was child's play.  Those type of features probably is why they were used in the DAKAR races.

Some of the con's was the shifting was archaic, clunky and loose, dry clutch. The power was nothing to write home about, in fact I though it was good in the respect that it kept you out of trouble.  It would cruse nicely on the freeway all day long but the acceleration was another matter.  It would just kind of build up power.  The opposed twin (Airhead) is good for cooling but on a 105 degree day your toes would roast.  A real pain to change a clutch.  And drive shafts do require maintenance, the spines are not something you can casually check and most of the time when they fail it is without warning. Then there is the is the weird TQ effect in a corner.  You get use to that.

Fast forward to the new models, I have been tempted a few times to buy a newer Boxer but as with most new bikes they have become complex and there are things that I can't fix on the road.  Frankly it scares me.  I ride alone at times and when I get down in Nevada in the middle of no where and have a problem then I could be screwed.  I have a neighbor that has a BMW and reviewed his servicing and repair bills.. Thank you but no way...

As for "Best Sport Touring bike" in 2014  I think you have to figure out what term "Sport Touring" means now days.  Marketing term. To me that BMW is a touring bike plain and simple. As with most bikes it will go around a corner.

I am old and think I will stay with old school bikes.  As with most here take pride in the fact that I can fix my own machine if needed. The FJ stays.

George

[TexasDave]

"I am old and think I will stay with old school bikes.  As with most here take pride in the fact that I can fix my own machine if needed. The FJ stays."

George
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             My feelings exactly.  Dave

[pdxfj]

With the BMW bikes I don't think there are many issues with the engines, it's their final drives.  As George said, they grenade without any warning.  Just read the Iron Butt Rally reviews/stories. A lot of riders drop out because the final drives blew up.  Some even carry a spare unit with them and change on the go.

On modern bikes I wouldn't be too worried about electrical or mechanical issues (at least with Japanese bikes).  There are quite a few advantages of riding a modern bike over the FJ.  I had a VFR 800 over the summer and loved it.  Fuel Injected, lighter, more nimble and comfortable.  I had to sell it because the riding position (while comfy) was just a tad too aggressive and set off my carpel tunnel in my right hand.  Even with bar risers and a Sargent seat, it wasn't enough and my hand would go numb after about 30 minutes.  Even though the VFR was a '98 I would have ridden it across the county and never worried about reliability.

[Flynt]

I think you have to figure out what term "Sport Touring" means now days...

That's the issue as I see it as well.  I had the K12S and K13S bikes from BMW and those compare pretty well the the FJ IMHO.  I've ridden the K1300GT and K1600GTL...  touring bikes for sure.  Haven't ridden the R1200RT, but I did go look at them this year.  They had an issue with rear shocks breaking and recalled a bunch of them with an offer to fix or buy back...  many of the owners took the buy back option, so there was a rash of low mile used RTs out there at like $4-5K off MSRP.  It was tempting, but the bike is a touring machine and not something I could convince myself I needed.

If you want sport touring from BMW, try the 2009 or newer K1300S.  Damn nice bike...

Frank

[Bill_Rockoff]

Fazer Dave's 916 has bar risers, and I love riding that thing.  The 916 he bought off eBay 2 years ago has a Sargent seat; I picked it up in Connecticut and rode it from NY to Atlanta in basically one sitting; I loved riding that one even more.  Andrew bought it from him in January and has put about 5,000 miles on it since then, including both 2014 east coast rallies and a track day.  We are genetically lucky, I guess, the 916 suits us both for what I consider to be "sport touring."   Although when I picture myself riding a long distance with nowhere to be, I still picture myself on the FJ.

Andrew has told me recently that he misses the dirt bike riding from his childhood.  He will be working this coming semester and there is an off-road park halfway between work and home, so he will probably find himself a dirt bike this winter.  He told me last night that after he graduates from college, he wants to do a knobbies-and-panniers kind of motorcycle tour of South America.  I wouldn't be surprised to find him trailering both his 916 and a dirt bike to Boone in May.

[Pat Conlon]

Bill, what are the Desmo. valve adjustment intervals on the 916?

[ribbert]

BMW's have come a long way since the 80's, perhaps more than most in their transition from agricultural machine to slick modern bike. Super smooth, no torque reaction, great gearboxes, and more grunt than an FJ. A proper modern bike in every sense, but to me, one of the few offerings that still has some character.

In a roll on from 50-100 mph in top gear, an '08 BMW (which have a very tall top gear) and the FJ are exactly neck and neck, the newer BM's have another 20 Nm's of torque, the current ones, another 15 hp, so they're no slouch. The FJ will of course beat it in a flat out drag race, but not by much.

Frank mentioned the K1300's. Bucket loads of power, but a long wheel base makes them more Autobahn blaster than twisties bike (according to owners, many of whom have had both)

George, even if they don't tick the "sport" in "Sports Touring" for appearance, they certainly do for riding, ask anyone who's tried to out run a cop on one on a curvy or twisty road. (Over 225 law enforcement agencies in the USA use them and another 150 countries use them as Police, ambulance and emergency services vehicles )

This is to be a stable mate for the FJ, not a replacement, and it's to do the same sort of riding so their is no point having something too similar, like an FJR for example.

My brother has an '09 BMW1200GS that he's put a 175,000 kms on, and yes, it has cost him a lot in service and repairs but I am lucky that is something I can mostly avoid. I have also always driven the sort of cars I advise others never to buy because they are money pits and unreliable.

Nobody does reliability and cheap running like the Japs, but they also do bland better than anyone else. They also have a knack for making last years model suddenly look like yesterdays bike, more so with cars. It's very hard finding a late model bike that has character. Many choices with lots of power but none I wasn't happy to give back or wished was in my garage.

George, as someone pointed out, along with all that whizzo technology does come relability, but when it does go pear shaped, yep, you're screwed.

It's an interesting point you raise, because even 30 year old cars have very little that can be fixed roadside and increasingly, diagnostics is becoming the most difficult part for DIY's.
Take a modern "fly by wire" throttle, it's not just a cable eliminator, it is sent information from a whole swag of systems, any one of which can shut it down independent of throttle input.
A modern BMW car exchanges hundreds of "electronic handshakes" per second. Truly scary stuff.
I don't even carry a box with a few basic tools in my wife's car anymore, no point.

A high level of membership with an auto club that includes vehicle recovery back home is about the best you can do these days. I have this for by bike as well.
The FJ is just about the end of an era (other than the ignition) when it comes to simple and accessible systems.

Nope, my FJ's not going anywhere either!

Noel

[movenon]

All good points Noel and you are correct. BMW's have come along way as with most of the new bikes but with a lot of complexity.

Last summer I was over in Portland with the wife on a small vacation and we are tooling down Stafford road and I see a bike and owner along side the road, I can tell he has a problem. I go on by and got thinking "shit man this guy probably needs some help" so I turn around and explain to my bride about helping this guy.  I pulled up and introduce myself, he is a mature rider with a newer Honda.  He said it just flamed out going down the road, dead.. He had checked all the normal things, switch's, fuel, fuses etc that he could get to.  No good.  I asked him what I could do to help and all he wanted to use my cell phone to call for a tow.  As I was departing the area I got to thinking what has motorcycling evolved to.  Now you need to belong to AAA to ride a bike....  (and have your cell phone)

There are places in Nevada and I am guessing in OZ that there isn't even cell phone service !  Let alone a tow truck that will travel over 50 miles without more cost.  Now if you and the bike end up in some back water town, you are still stuck. They don't just tow you to the nearest dealer (that's another adventure).

I know what I feel is "the big dark cave and I know something is in there that will eat me" problem.  I do know that new bikes are reliable up until they fail.  About like a Lithium battery.

I do like the looks of a few of the newer bikes. Yesterday I ran across a photo of a new Ninja 1000 with bags and that looked closer to what I would call "Sport-Touring".  http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,101506.0.html#.VKWLvnveeio . Steve can fill in the blanks on that.


All the rambling aside I have said before that if I ever get a different bike the FJ stays. It the best all around bike that I have ever owned.

George

[Steve_in_Florida]

...Steve can fill in the blanks on that.

Pictured is Scott's (FJScott) relatively new GREEN Ninja with matching hard bags. While awaiting Jeff's arrival the other morning, Fred, Scott and I were marveling at how well hidden the hard bag mounting system is on that bike. Very slick!

Scott seems very pleased with his toy. I'm told that it's pretty FAST, too!   

Steve

[movenon]

Oops sorry Steve.. Got the name mixed.. Scott's bike was closer to what we call "Sport-Touring" at least that's my opinion. The BMW would be better for touring especially 2 up IMO.  But it doesn't matter what you ride it only matters who you are.  
George

I am guessing those bags are GIVI V 35's. They are contoured on the inside and mount to a tube type mount. Only a guess. To bad they don't fit the Wing Rack II system.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycles/kawasaki-versys/kawasaki-versys-luggage.htm

George

[Bill_Rockoff]

Re: 916, I think you're supposed to check 'em every 6,000 miles.  I am told they, like FJ's, don't need adjustment most of the time.  I will Ask The Man Who Owns One for details.  He plans to do the belts over the winter.

They put the 916 engine in the ST4, I believe, but that bike always left me a bit cold, so I haven't been interested in the longer-service-interval variants they came out with since then.  Apparently the 996 and 998 got improved valve hardware that can be retrofit for longer service intervals.  Brad Martone had a 748 or 749 that he was selling a few years ago that had received those upgrades, which extended the interval to 16,000.  If I had known how much I like the platform, maybe I would have made it a point to buy his; it was immaculate.

Ducati Dave has a 998 with my name on it (it made a brief appearance at the ECFR) and I will probably be looking for a Sargent seat and a good soft-bag solution.  My only experience with luggage on one of those was the Eclipse panniers and tail pack that Dave loaned me to retrieve Andrew's 916 from New England.  All the clothing I brought was either in the tank bag or on my body, so the only reason I needed the panniers was to carry the tail pack.  I didn't fasten it on correctly so they moved and wound up rubbing against the rear wheel, wearing a hole in both the right pannier and the tail pack it was carrying.  "PERFECT!" 

  The FJ would be far better for two-up sport-touring, but the rides I would take with a passenger these days are so short that the may as well occur on a 998.   I still see myself crossing the country on the FJ, but for a shorter ride (Tellico with a cabin?) a 998 with a tank bag and some gym bags would be plenty tour-y enough.

[Pat Conlon]

Thanks Bill.  I've always wondered....
Can you check the valve clearances yourself, or do you have to take it to a Ducati dealer?
If the dealer is the only option, aprox. how much would a Ducati dealer charge for this service?
I've been on tours that have exceeded 6k miles.