Hey guys,
I would like to give some background on how and where I ride before I ask my question. I own a 1986 FJ with stock 16" rims, (I'm not doing the 17" upgrade) live in Illinois (Flatland) and just like to drive around with my music playing in my ears. I don't race the bike, but I do like the occasionally curve. :biggrin:
Here are my suggested choices:
1-F) Avon AV45 Azaro-ST Sport Touring 120/80 x 16 Front Tire ~$125.00
1-R) Avon AV46 Azaro-ST Sport Touring 150/80 x 16 Rear Tire ~$155.00
..............................................................................Total: $280.00 (Not including Tax, Shipping and etc.)
or
2-F) Avon Roadrider AM26 120/80 x 16 Front Tire ~85.00
2-R) Avon Roadrider AM26 150/80 x 16 Rear Tire ~$125.00
.............................................................Total: $210.00 (Not including Tax, Shipping and etc.)
Now are my questions... :flag_of_truce:
1. Is there a big difference in how these tires ride/handle? If so, what in your opinion?
2. Would you choose set #1 over set #2 another in where and how I ride? (I am on a budget)
3. Where can you get the best price on these types of tires?
4. Do you suggest a different tire for my style of riding?
Thanks for all your help guys!
Dean
Dean,
You're kind of asking whether you should get an apple or an orange...
The Roadrider is a V-rated bias-ply cruiser/general-purpose tire, whereas the Azaro is a Z-rated radial sport-touring tire.
Based on what you've told us (that you aren't a very aggressive rider) it sounds like the Roadriders would be fine, as long as you're aware that they may not be as sticky as what you're used to.
FWIW, faced with a similar choice (and similar budget constraints) this past summer, I went for the Pirelli Sport Demons as a good compromise between price and performance (but I may be more sport riding oriented than you). They also have sizes that'll fit your wheels.
HTH... (http://i35.tinypic.com/28a1gqx.gif)
Thanks!
I wanted to hear a balanced view, so I may have understated how I drive in order to not just jump to a performance tire as a default for the FJ.
After your last comment about the stickiness, want as sticky as I can (With-in a reasonable price) even if the tires wear faster. I would hate to dump the bike for a $70 difference, LOL.
Does anyone else suggest a different tire over the Avons? Why?
Where is the best price to get tires? Any suggestions?
Dean,
Go with the Z rated sportier tire. You said you just got back into riding again. Well if this is the case you will find yourself becoming more and more comfortable with the handling and speed of your bike. You don't want to get a hair up you ass and run the bike out in third or fourth gear with a non-Z rated tire. Also, as you get more comfortable with cornering again you don't want to have your ass end sliding around on you because of weak rubber. The ass of the bike is going to be sketchy enough with that 16" tire set up. Sure you'll save a few bucks and get longer tread wear from the touring tires, but you will loss stopping traction, turning traction, and high speed tread range. Your bike will easily travel down a long stretch of road at 95 to 105 at just about 6 grand on the tach. Not something I would want to do on a tire rated for speeds of 110 to 130.
Ultimately it is your choice, and any new tire is better than an old tire, just be realistic about your riding habits. It seems to me if you never wanted to go over 85 mph. you would have gotten a Harley.
Later..... :bye2:
I go through at least 2 sets a year (6-8 if you count track tires), so the way I look at it get the tire that meets your needs NOW. It sounds like mileage and cost are currently your main criteria. When you decide to pick up the pace both with your bike and your wallet, look into the higher rated tires.Plus a V rated tire is good for sustained 149mph running.... are you? If you are unhappy with the tire its not the end of the world. Soon enough you will be shopping again.
Most riders buy way more tire than they really need. The Roadrider is a good all around tire and should work well. A radial tire like the storm will feel lighter (roadrider is a bias ply tire) but unless you are riding hard and scraping pegs its really not going to make that much of a difference.
Quote from: higbonzo on November 12, 2009, 07:01:18 PM
Dean,
Go with the Z rated sportier tire. You said you just got back into riding again. Well if this is the case you will find yourself becoming more and more comfortable with the handling and speed of your bike. You don't want to get a hair up you ass and run the bike out in third or fourth gear with a non-Z rated tire. Also, as you get more comfortable with cornering again you don't want to have your ass end sliding around on you because of weak rubber. The ass of the bike is going to be sketchy enough with that 16" tire set up. Sure you'll save a few bucks and get longer tread wear from the touring tires, but you will loss stopping traction, turning traction, and high speed tread range. Your bike will easily travel down a long stretch of road at 95 to 105 at just about 6 grand on the tach. Not something I would want to do on a tire rated for speeds of 110 to 130.
Ultimately it is your choice, and any new tire is better than an old tire, just be realistic about your riding habits. It seems to me if you never wanted to go over 85 mph. you would have gotten a Harley.
Later..... :bye2:
V rated tires are good up to 149 mph.
Randy T
Indy
Save yourself some coin and get them here: (no tax, shipping, close to the best prices - if not the best)
http://www.swmototires.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=128&Itemid=53 (http://www.swmototires.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=128&Itemid=53)
I'd get the Azaro tires myself. I've been through 3 sets of the AV45/46.
Edit: actually my IDEAL choice would be the AV46 rear and the AV55 front....that is - if available in the stock tire sizes you need.
I was a mega budget Fjer until recently. Even in those days I would always go for the best I could afford on certain things like chains, sprockets, bearings, brake pads and tyres (and regular oil changes of course). Saving money on chains is a fools game when your dealing with Fj torque. Saving money on tyres is not so instantly obvious since, as you state, it depends on your riding style.
I'm sure the road riders are fine, but if $70 stops you from enjoying curves to the max when your in the mood for the next 4000-5000 miles then I don't consider that a great saving. I really liked the Azaros myself, but have never tried the road riders, so maybe I'm talking crap.
My 17 inch wheel mod is progressing slowly and as a matter of fact, yesterday I got the new tyres put on the rims ready for the christmas change over. I could have gone for the perfectly adequate road pilots, but spent about $50 more for the new road pilot 2s. Why would I do this? Well I'm married and I can blow $50 on a dinner for two all too easily and that experience lasts for about an hour. Naturally you usually receive a bonus activity that can also last a bit. Anyhow, it all comes back to value over cheapness. If I divide the potential 4000 miles I might get out of a tyre into $70, then it equals about 2 cents extra a mile.
Andy
Quote from: andyoutandabout on November 12, 2009, 07:27:45 PM
I could have gone for the perfectly adequate road pilots, but spent about $50 more for the new road pilot 2s. Why would I do this? Well I'm married and I can blow $50 on a dinner for two all too easily and that experience lasts for about an hour. Naturally you usually receive a bonus activity that can also last a bit. Anyhow, it all comes back to value over cheapness. If I divide the potential 4000 miles I might get out of a tyre into $70, then it equals about 2 cents extra a mile.
Andy
Spoken like a true math teacher! Now, have you broken down the dinner cost vs. the per minute cost of the related shag?
Andy,
you are gonna L O V E the pilot road 2's both in handling and long life. :good2:
.
KOokaloo!
Frank
There's certainly a graphable relationship between early evening preparations and later evening enthusiasms (if that's the right word). No one gets much happiness off a happy meal, but a sophisticated sushi produces expodential wonders.
Back to more sobering thoughts. Oh yeah.. those road pilot 2s have the most minimal tread pattern and they even feel tacky to the touch. Certainly not limp lettuce, more full on smorgasboard.
Quote from: rktmanfj on November 12, 2009, 07:14:25 PM
Quote from: higbonzo on November 12, 2009, 07:01:18 PM
Dean,
Go with the Z rated sportier tire.
Later..... :bye2:
V rated tires are good up to 149 mph.
Randy T
Indy
True, but many times the touring treads don't offer that rating. You start saving money when you get down in the S and H speed ratings. And it is more common to see 16" tires in the S and H speed range. I just remember when I had my 16" on the back it was a pain trying to find a tire I felt comfortable with and that is why I went to the 17".
So, yes, a V rated tire would be fine. But, you will probably find that a Z rated tire will not cost that much more than a V rated tire in a sport tire design.
Later......
Quote from: higbonzo on November 12, 2009, 09:16:59 PM
Quote from: rktmanfj on November 12, 2009, 07:14:25 PM
Quote from: higbonzo on November 12, 2009, 07:01:18 PM
Dean,
Go with the Z rated sportier tire.
Later..... :bye2:
V rated tires are good up to 149 mph.
Randy T
Indy
True, but many times the touring treads don't offer that rating. You start saving money when you get down in the S and H speed ratings. And it is more common to see 16" tires in the S and H speed range. I just remember when I had my 16" on the back it was a pain trying to find a tire I felt comfortable with and that is why I went to the 17".
So, yes, a V rated tire would be fine. But, you will probably find that a Z rated tire will not cost that much more than a V rated tire in a sport tire design.
Later......
This, combined with your previous post, I don't have a clue what you're trying to say. :scratch_one-s_head:
Randy T
Indy
Quote from: rktmanfj on November 12, 2009, 09:23:08 PM
Quote from: higbonzo on November 12, 2009, 09:16:59 PM
Quote from: rktmanfj on November 12, 2009, 07:14:25 PM
Quote from: higbonzo on November 12, 2009, 07:01:18 PM
Dean,
Go with the Z rated sportier tire.
Later..... :bye2:
V rated tires are good up to 149 mph.
Randy T
Indy
True, but many times the touring treads don't offer that rating.
Later......
This, combined with your previous post, I don't have a clue what you're trying to say. :scratch_one-s_head:
Randy T
Indy
Don't worry, I confuse myself sometimes. :wacko2: I guess what I am trying to say is a few years back when I was looking for a new 16" tire for my FJ that I was very limited on my choices. All the tread designs and tires I really wanted were not available for my bike.
Later.... :bye2:
I could only find one tire available from the Avon site for the bike, the Azaro-ST http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/motorbike/fj-1200 (http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/motorbike/fj-1200) , and it has a speed rating of W, so the speed rating point is moot. The tires Dean posted for his choice of tires are W rated as well. I guess I just had bad luck when I was trying to find tires for my bike. That and I never considered Avon or Metzler tires. :flag_of_truce:
Later.....
Have I mentioned lately that I really like the Dunlop D401 Harley Davidson tire I'm currently running on the back of my '85? I'm not sure, but it may be closely related to the Dunlop K591.
It's been so long since I've been to a rally, I no longer know where I fit into the grouping (fast, medium, touring). But around the local parts here, I may not be the fastest guy, but I'm not the last to arrive either.
I paired this cruiser tire up with a D205 front purely by my own stupidity one year when I cheaped out and didn't install new tires prior to a rally. Jeff and I toured for about 2000 miles the week before the rally and once we got there, one quick trip through Shady Valley was enough to wipe out all the tread I had left on a D205 rear.
After finding that the D401 was the only 150/80-16 tire within a 100 mile radius, I had no choice but to install it in order to continue to participate in the next 3 days of the rally (plus a potentially soggy 300 mile ride back to Atlanta). Matching up this bias ply, H-rated, H/D rear tire with the V-rated radial up front was sure to mean INSTANT DEATH at the first kink in the road.
Much to my surprise, after a short 30 mile break-in period, I rode that tire as hard as I did the radial and it never even flinched. It continues to give me excellent service to this day. I just love the look on the face of the locals after leading them down one of our few twisty roads, we take a break and, during the obligatory "tire inspection," someone notices that I'm NOT running the latest fast-dissolving tread, gumbo compound, pseudo-racer tire that they are using. "Yeah, that's right, you were chasing a cruiser tire."
My theory is there was an excess of rubber compound from a much better tire line that got dumped into the D-401 molds and I just happened to get one of those tires. I hesitate to recommend it, as it's not cheap at $130, and they may not work the same for anyone else.
However, if I didn't have a stack of 16 inch D205s and a few ME-Z2s waiting for it to wear out so they can be installed, I'd consider buying another.
DavidR.
Of course YMMV.
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on November 13, 2009, 04:38:05 PM
Matching up this bias ply, H-rated, H/D rear tire with the V-rated radial up front was sure to mean INSTANT DEATH at the first kink in the road.
Yes, that bit of lore is likely a carryover from car tires, where radials have a lot more sidewall flex than bias. Since bike tires aren't supposed to flex anyway, there's much less difference in that aspect of their performance. Not to say that mixing constructions is ever recommended, however... (http://i36.tinypic.com/awzs3t.gif)
Still, it's good to know that it
can be done... :)
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on November 13, 2009, 04:38:05 PM
I just love the look on the face of the locals after leading them down one of our few twisty roads, we take a break and, during the obligatory "tire inspection," someone notices that I'm NOT running the latest fast-dissolving tread, gumbo compound, pseudo-racer tire that they are using. "Yeah, that's right, you were chasing a cruiser tire."
Now that's funny! :dash2: Great comments.
Quote from: threejagsteve on November 13, 2009, 07:06:01 PM
Quote from: SlowOldGuy on November 13, 2009, 04:38:05 PM
Matching up this bias ply, H-rated, H/D rear tire with the V-rated radial up front was sure to mean INSTANT DEATH at the first kink in the road.
Yes, that bit of lore is likely a carryover from car tires, where radials have a lot more sidewall flex than bias. Since bike tires aren't supposed to flex anyway, there's much less difference in that aspect of their performance. Not to say that mixing constructions is ever recommended, however... (http://i36.tinypic.com/awzs3t.gif)
Still, it's good to know that it can be done... :)
I was just at a seminar held by my local dealer and one of the presenters was the Dunlop distributor. He spewed all the popular tire logic like run the tires that came on your bike, don't switch to radials, only plug your tire so you can make it to the dealer and when you get there of course have both tires replaced. All of which he assured us if an actual Dunlop person was there they would say the same. As I sat there smiling to myself wondering how big of a heart attack he would have if he saw my FJ sitting on the parking lot, He showed a Dunlop video extolling the virtues of their newest sport tire and how it would make my bike so much better. Now wait, don't I have to buy new bike to experience this tire nirvana, lest I die? Unfortunately, by this time the mostly Gold Wing, cruiser crowd had discovered the baked ziti, so this I'm sure was lost on them. So now they can enforce there tire logic with I heard it from the Dunlop guy. Oh, and don't buy your tires off the internet, go to the dealer.
I got curious and had a look at the Dunlop D401s.
Actually it appears that they are the descendant of the 491, which was a touring/commuter/mileage tire.
Tread designs on the 491 and 591 were similar, but the sipes in the middle of the tread blocks are the telltale... 491s had 'em; 591s didn't.
And BTW, in those days Harleys came with 491s. :P
Oh, and just to stir the pot a bit... To finish off my wheel mods, I've been casting covetous glances at the Pilot Road 2s. I'll be running a 180/55 in back, but I noticed the fronts come in 120/70 AND 120/60... any opinions?
Quote from: threejagsteve on November 14, 2009, 08:18:40 PM
I've been casting covetous glances at the Pilot Road 2s. I'll be running a 180/55 in back, but I noticed the fronts come in 120/70 AND 120/60... any opinions?
the 60 is going to be a little quicker steering right off center with a more crowned profile, a little harsher ride on bumpy roads but possibly a slightly larger contact patch when leaned over.... its easy to get to the very edge of the tread when cornering with the 60.
i like the 70....it has a rounder profile and gives good ride... its very neutral from straight up to full lean....i have never got to the edge of the tread when cornering and have no issues with the size of it's contact patch :good2:
something just makes me nervous about getting to the edge of the tread on the front tire.... rear tire i have ridden off the edge before and it was no big deal since i grew up riding dirt bikes with the rear end all over the place.....the FJ is considerably harder to bring back than a dirt bike but the technique is the same.
but in that also i have crashed enough to know that when you lose the front end, 99% of the time you are done.
you cant really go wrong with either tire...try the 60 then when you need another tire try the 70... its really more a matter of what type of handling characteristic you prefer on your bike....... i think T Roy really likes the 60..... all the way to the edge baby brother! :yahoo:
Quote from: Fred on November 14, 2009, 11:58:59 AM
I was just at a seminar held by my local dealer and one of the presenters was the Dunlop distributor. He spewed all the popular tire logic like run the tires that came on your bike, don't switch to radials, only plug your tire so you can make it to the dealer and when you get there of course have both tires replaced.
Oh yeah, Thanks for reminding me, I forgot to mention that I have a plug in my Harley Tire. Not one of those nice dealer installed internal plugs, where they dismount the tire and install the plug from the inside. No, this is a cheapie, limp home before you KILL yourself externally-installed plug from a Stop N Go Pocket Plugger kit. I just couldn't let that last 1/8 inch of tread go to waste. :-)
DavidR.
Dave, It has been some time but I remember the VF1000R had a radial ply on one end and a bias ply on the on the other STOCK!! That was 85/6 how times have changed.
Quote from: racerman_27410 on November 14, 2009, 10:54:09 PM
the 60 is going to be a little quicker steering right off center with a more crowned profile, a little harsher ride on bumpy roads but possibly a slightly larger contact patch when leaned over.... its easy to get to the very edge of the tread when cornering with the 60.
i like the 70....it has a rounder profile and gives good ride... its very neutral from straight up to full lean....i have never got to the edge of the tread when cornering and have no issues with the size of it's contact patch :good2:
something just makes me nervous about getting to the edge of the tread on the front tire.... rear tire i have ridden off the edge before and it was no big deal since i grew up riding dirt bikes with the rear end all over the place.....the FJ is considerably harder to bring back than a dirt bike but the technique is the same.
but in that also i have crashed enough to know that when you lose the front end, 99% of the time you are done.
you cant really go wrong with either tire...try the 60 then when you need another tire try the 70... its really more a matter of what type of handling characteristic you prefer on your bike....... i think T Roy really likes the 60..... all the way to the edge baby brother! :yahoo:
Informative and insightful... I couldn't have asked for a better comparison!
Many thanks, Frank! (http://i38.tinypic.com/2n7ehie.gif)
Quote from: threejagsteve on November 15, 2009, 05:51:55 AM
Informative and insightful... I couldn't have asked for a better comparison!
Many thanks, Frank! (http://i38.tinypic.com/2n7ehie.gif)
no worries.....this discussion is the reason i upgraded my FJ.... tire shopping is F U N as long as you have lots of choices :biggrin:
KOokaloo!
Check this out--->> http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1237.msg10133#new (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1237.msg10133#new)
Just got new Metzeler Lasertecs, well worth the extra money!
Side note for those on radials:
the BT021 seems to wear well and sticks shockingly well (just take a pass on all the older technology ST tires, they suck!), but the rounded profile does make it a little nervous when leaning hard.
Trying angels (pirelli) for my next set, I think...