Hey all
I would like to get a few answers to what I think is preventing me from enjoying this 84 more.Rite now I am experiencing a number of confidence robbing twitches hops wiggles as I go around corners, long wide highway sweepers are ok but not great, its the slower tighter corners that really start to scare.
If everything else on the bike were tight and leak free how much of an improvement would a pair of excellent tires make to the above situation? or would an additional tweak and tires make a massive difference than just tires alone?
Have read all the stuff about valves springs forks shocks and wheels and don't doubt any of it but for now just looking for something quick that would transform the bike to a less scary mount. My bike is very stock wit a supposed 34 thousand on the clock the forks have the required amount of oil in the 425cc I think of 15 wt the springs are cranked to all and the damping is set to midd and I unscrewed the anti dive knobs all the way out.The rear shock seems stiff.
Thanks Chiz
Sounds scary. It may be as simple as a junky front tire, but it may not. Check the steering head bearings, make sure the forks are not bent, look for cupping on the front tire/ ensure tire pressures are OK.
Check the chain is not binding/too far stretched and that the sprockets are not overly worn. Does the issue only happen in second gear? If so, it could be a transmission/ second gear issue -that would be a painful realization as it requires engine out/ splitting the cases to fix -but it does not sound like this is what's going on, as it would happen while not in a corner as well.
I am not sure I'd ride it until you get this sorted, though.
My $0.02
Dan
Quote from: chiz on October 10, 2013, 08:51:22 AM
Hey all
I would like to get a few answers to what I think is preventing me from enjoying this 84 more.Rite now I am experiencing a number of confidence robbing twitches hops wiggles as I go around corners, long wide highway sweepers are ok but not great, its the slower tighter corners that really start to scare.
If everything else on the bike were tight and leak free how much of an improvement would a pair of excellent tires make to the above situation? or would an additional tweak and tires make a massive difference than just tires alone?
Thanks Chiz
Chiz,
When I changed my FJ1100 tires to new Pirelli Sport Demons, there was a vast improvement in handling. Avon radials (45/46) may be a little better, but I have no experience with Avons, and cost can be a factor there.
No doubt, you will also be happier with some suspension upgrades, but I was never happier to throw my old tires away, for the new Pirelli tires. Get the wheels balanced, absolutely, with the new tires.
Cheers,
Red
Glad to receive your comments
My chain and sprockets are new but I do have a gut feeling about the steering bearings. So will do tires and bearings that way my suspicion that most of the weirdness is coming from the front is eliminated.
Chiz
It wouldn't hurt to check that your suspension is operating correctly and that the sag is set correctly. The following most excellent post should help guide you set the correct sag, front and rear.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=764.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=764.0)
I agree with most of the above comments. Before you modify, inspect and put everything in the front back to factory spec's., remember they ran fine when new.
Clean, inspect and adjust head bearings, same with the forks and wheels. And properly adjust the front end, set the sag etc.. Take nothing for granted.
Note that a rear swing arm with to much play can make your front end feel like there is a problem. My only real input is take some time, put her up on the center stand, get something to drink...., and spend a week end going though it in detail if its that scary to ride.
Also here is an interesting video to watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSunBRB6-r8
George
OKgreat finally something concrete on how to do forks and suspension, installing forks almost the same procedure would be used I guess? Would like to have an easy to follow description on aligning back wheel to front, anyone have something?
Thanks
Also check the fender / fork brace plate. Sometimes the holes in the plate will elongate if it was run loose for any length of time. It would allow more "wiggle" in the fork vases. Its the details that get you.
Here is a clip on aligning the rear wheel to the front wheel. There are a couple of ways to do this. The ones mentioned, and if you are a little inventive and have a couple of lasers you can spare you can use those. The string method is cheap, easy and if done correctly as accurate as you need to be.
When you understand the process then you can go for your own way of doing it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBxK-OQ--fg
George :good2: Hope it helps out.
Quote from: movenon on October 10, 2013, 04:10:37 PM
.....aligning the rear wheel to the front wheel. There are a couple of ways to do this. The string method is cheap, easy and if done correctly as accurate as you need to be.
George :good2: Hope it helps out
I still find the quickest and most accurate way is with a couple of lengths of steel tube (square) sitting on 1 litre paint tins pressed against the back wheel.
Noel
While all the advice given is good and your bike would benefit from it, most of it deals with improvements or issues that would not effect handling. Your bike sounds like it has an actual problem. FJ's are not particularly sensitive and even a "sloppy' one with crap tyres should not ride as you describe.
At that mileage it is hard to imagine anything being worn enough to create a problem.
"Twitches, hops and wiggles" At one point my bike rode as you describe and I would definitely call it scary. Crossing the overbanding would see it shoot across half a lane and it would wander all over the road trying to hold a line through a corner. It happened within minutes of having a new rear tyre fitted and was so bad I pulled over convinced they had left the back wheel loose. The handling scared the living daylights out of me and made the bike feel like it had a mind of it's own. The problem was incompatible tyres. Initially I couldn't believe that tyres alone could have such an adverse effect on handling and even checked the frame for a break, it felt that severe. I put up with it for a while then ditched the tyre, handling was restored immediately. This was on a '93 with the 16"rear/17"front so there was much more scope for mismatching tyres.
However, if that is not a factor (haven't just changed tyres) George's advice is good, start at the front and work your way to the back checking everything that could effect handling. Think about the components that come into play when cornering and what changes from low to high speed.
My suggestions would be to check head stem bearings (had the lock nut come loose), wheel bearings F&R, chronic rear wheel misalignment or left loose, tyre pressures, swing arm bearing (just check for play, no need to remove and inspect).
Did this start after you made any changes?
Did it start suddenly or develop over time?
Has it always done this?
Noel
:hi: Check your rear tire pressure!!! I had similar handling problems a few years back with my Yamaha Vision....turned out to be very low pressure in the rear tire :blush:
If your going to change out a previous owners old rubber, (which is always a good idea in my opinion), go here for them... http://www.petes-superbike.com/index.php (http://www.petes-superbike.com/index.php) Prices are great and you can pay via paypal, credit card, etc and they deliver with in 48 hours normally :good2:
I ran with Avon's faithfully for years but changed to Pirelli Sport Demons over last winter for this season. Neither brand will let you down :drinks:
John.
Hi
I started this by mentioning tires the rear is a Macadam AND the front a Laser I don't think this is a matched pair and they are in not good shape so the expense of replacement would be more that worth it from what is written here. Will check again for play up front and see if there if it can be adjusted and tightened up, bearings are cheap enough so will put new ones in the wheels.
Got new bushings for the forks I ordered them by size dimension... hope they fit. My ST doesn't hold air well in tires so I know what under inflation feels like but when right that bike practically corners itself, regardless of tire make tires still loose air??
Lots of really good stuff here and copied some of it to files..very helpfull.
Thanks Chiz
Quote from: chiz on October 10, 2013, 08:51:22 AM
... the forks have the required amount of oil in the 425cc I think of 15 wt the springs are cranked to all and the damping is set to midd and I unscrewed the anti dive knobs all the way out.The rear shock seems stiff.
A few other things:
Been awhile since I've jacked with a/d units, but from what I remember, you need to screw them IN (normal clockwise tightening direction) all the way to minimize the a/d function.
You may have poured 425cc of oil into each fork, but you really need to check the level and make sure both forks are the same. Sometimes all the oil doesn't drain out if you just pull the drain screw. After a few oil changes you might have way too much oil in one or both of the legs.
Thick oil and lots of preload on a weak (stock!) spring will make things very harsh.
Stock rear shock is junk.
Looks like you're changing tires. That's the best first move. You need to sort your suspension components and any maintenance items next.
Quote from: chiz on October 11, 2013, 08:10:42 AM
Hi
I started this by mentioning tires the rear is a Macadam AND the front a Laser I don't think this is a matched pair
The pairing of those tyres is unlikely to cause any problems.
Quote from: chiz on October 11, 2013, 08:10:42 AM
...regardless of tire make tires still loose air??
No. Shouldn't lose more than a couple of pound over 6 mths., if that.
Noel
Quote from: chiz on October 11, 2013, 08:10:42 AM
My ST doesn't hold air well in tires so I know what under inflation feels like but when right that bike practically corners itself, regardless of tire make tires still loose air??
Change the valves on those rims.
Quote from: ribbert on October 11, 2013, 09:29:08 AM
Quote from: chiz on October 11, 2013, 08:10:42 AM
Hi
I started this by mentioning tires the rear is a Macadam AND the front a Laser I don't think this is a matched pair
The pairing of those tyres is unlikely to cause any problems.
Quote from: chiz on October 11, 2013, 08:10:42 AM
...regardless of tire make tires still loose air??
No. Shouldn't lose more than a couple of pound over 6 mths., if that.
Noel
Forks sat on bench apart for weeks waiting for parts the bushes never arrived in time ...tooo impatient.
Got seals that have two springs each instead of the normal one Wonder how much stiction this added???
anyone know what the three washers down at the bottom of each damper rod are for two of them are not flat but dished
Got my kids to pick up some packages at the warehouse across the border (my pasport expired) among the stuff was a set of Progressive springs for the forks.
I know they are not well liked.... they were about 3 inches longer than stock and the wire they were made of were considerably thicker I installed them minus the stock spacers. It would seem that the static sag is about 1 inch as apposed to 2 with stock springs.
Greased a stanchion and hit the brakes with the anti dive adjusted all in and all out there seems to be no difference when I measure the grease mark what gives or do I have the wrong idea about how this system works?
Thanks Chiz
Quote from: chiz on October 12, 2013, 06:42:21 PM
"..what gives or do I have the wrong idea about how this system works?
Yea, you are assuming the system worked to begin with...
Even when working, the anti dive system didn't really work....as far as I could tell.....
Quote from: chiz on October 12, 2013, 06:42:21 PM
It would seem that the static sag is about 1 inch as apposed to 2 with stock springs.
I'd say that is too stiff. Get your money back and get some proper springs. You can get advice on this sight as to which springs you need and what options there are to you.
Did you take your forks to the guy who was going to "blue print" them for you as well as shim the bushings?
If so, what did the "blue printing " include because if something internally was modified then who knows where to start.
You have basically three options over the stock fork/spring set-up, unless you decide to modify & convert over some form of USD fork assembly.
a) progressive fork springs - You already to do not like them
b) Racetech fork valves and heavy springs - The middle of the road as far as performance results and cost with universal products adapted to the FJ.
c) RPM fork valves (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M/C:RPMForkValve) and softer springs - Specifically designed and patented fork springs for the FJ combined with softer fork springs for the best ride and performance available for the FJ.
There is numerous write ups on the RPM fork valves and comparisons to the RT products as well as this link to the files section.
RPM fork valves explained (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=7486.0)
Randy - RPM
I really don't know about not looking them just kind of repeating what has been said in the past about them. I don't know zilch about springs and such like but they seem more robust than the stock set I have not ridden the bike more than 100 yds since installing so cant comment. I did make frightening discovery in that I had not tightened the handle bar pinch bolts although the allens holdind them down were tight.
Trying to imagine what effect this would have had on the ride perhaps more than I suspect. Took of the top yoke yesterday and poked around at the stem nuts and tried to see if there was any play could mot find any.
Will try to discover on my next ride if a difference is noticed.
Thanks Chiz
You can go on and on chasing the best handling fj. Upside down forks, stronger swing arm, better shock, fork springs, etc. But one of the quickest, yet not least expensive, ways to change the handling of the fj is to put a 17x 5.5 rear rim with a 180/55 tire and a 17x 3.5 front rim with the 120/70 tire on the bike. Brings the bike quickly into the new millennium. This will give you a great choice of performance tires and you can refine the rest of the handle aspect from there. Ask anyone that has made the change and they will tell you it is a night and day difference in the bikes overall performance of the motorcycle. I would have sent my fj down the road a long time ago if it were not for this set up. Now, I can't come up with a good excuse to ever own any other bike. It really makes a difference.
But, that is just my opinion.
Hope it helps.
Later....
Quote from: higbonzo on October 17, 2013, 09:06:37 PM
You can go on and on chasing the best handling fj. Upside down forks, stronger swing arm, better shock, fork springs, etc. But one of the quickest, yet not least expensive, ways to change the handling of the fj is to put a 17x 5.5 rear rim with a 180/55 tire and a 17x 3.5 front rim with the 120/70 tire on the bike. Brings the bike quickly into the new millennium. This will give you a great choice of performance tires and you can refine the rest of the handle aspect from there. Ask anyone that has made the change and they will tell you it is a night and day difference in the bikes overall performance of the motorcycle. I would have sent my fj down the road a long time ago if it were not for this set up. Now, I can't come up with a good excuse to ever own any other bike. It really makes a difference.
But, that is just my opinion.
Hope it helps.
Later....
+1 :drinks: I agree with this. Modern size radial tires make a world of difference.
Fred