handling

[chiz]

Hey all
  I would like to get a few answers to what I think is preventing me from enjoying this 84 more.Rite now I am experiencing a number of confidence robbing twitches hops wiggles as I go around corners, long wide highway sweepers are ok but not great, its the slower tighter corners that really start to scare.
   If everything else on the bike were tight and leak free how much of an improvement would a pair of excellent tires make to the above situation? or would an additional tweak and tires make a massive difference than just tires alone?
Have read all the stuff about valves springs forks shocks and wheels and don't doubt any of it but for now just looking for something quick that would transform the bike to a less scary mount. My bike is very stock wit a supposed 34 thousand on the clock the forks have the required amount of oil in the 425cc I think of 15 wt the springs are cranked to all and the damping is set to midd and I unscrewed the anti dive knobs all the way out.The rear shock seems stiff.
Thanks Chiz   

[Dan Filetti]

Sounds scary.  It may be as simple as a junky front tire, but it may not.  Check the steering head bearings, make sure the forks are not bent, look for cupping on the front tire/ ensure tire pressures are OK.

Check the chain is not binding/too far stretched and that the sprockets are not overly worn.  Does the issue only happen in second gear?  If so, it could be a transmission/ second gear issue -that would be a painful realization as it requires engine out/ splitting the cases to fix -but it does not sound like this is what's going on, as it would happen while not in a corner as well. 

I am not sure I'd ride it until you get this sorted, though.

My $0.02

Dan 

[red]

Hey all
 I would like to get a few answers to what I think is preventing me from enjoying this 84 more.Rite now I am experiencing a number of confidence robbing twitches hops wiggles as I go around corners, long wide highway sweepers are ok but not great, its the slower tighter corners that really start to scare.
  If everything else on the bike were tight and leak free how much of an improvement would a pair of excellent tires make to the above situation? or would an additional tweak and tires make a massive difference than just tires alone?
Thanks Chiz    

Chiz,

When I changed my FJ1100 tires to new Pirelli Sport Demons, there was a vast improvement in handling.  Avon radials (45/46) may be a little better, but I have no experience with Avons, and cost can be a factor there.

No doubt, you will also be happier with some suspension upgrades, but I was never happier to throw my old tires away, for the new Pirelli tires.  Get the wheels balanced, absolutely, with the new tires.

Cheers,
Red

[chiz]

Glad to receive your comments
My chain and sprockets are new but I do have a gut feeling about the steering bearings. So will do tires and bearings that way my suspicion that most of the weirdness is coming from the front is eliminated.
Chiz   

[markmartin]

It wouldn't hurt to check that your suspension is operating correctly and that the sag is set correctly.  The following most excellent post should help guide you set the correct sag, front and rear.

http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=764.0

[movenon]

I agree with most of the above comments. Before you modify, inspect and put everything in the front back to factory spec's., remember they ran fine when new.
Clean, inspect and adjust head bearings, same with the forks and wheels. And properly adjust the front end, set the sag etc.. Take nothing for granted.
Note that a rear swing arm with to much play can make your front end feel like there is a problem. My only real input is take some time, put her up on the center stand, get something to drink...., and spend a week end going though it in detail if its that scary to ride.

Also here is an interesting video to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSunBRB6-r8

George

[chiz]

OKgreat finally something concrete on how to do forks and suspension, installing forks almost the same procedure would be used I guess? Would like to have an easy to follow description on aligning back wheel to front, anyone have something?
Thanks

[movenon]

Also check the fender / fork brace plate. Sometimes the holes in the plate will elongate if it was run loose for any length of time. It would allow more "wiggle" in the fork vases.  Its the details that get you.

Here is a clip on aligning the rear wheel to the front wheel. There are a couple of ways to do this. The ones mentioned, and if you are a little inventive and have a couple of lasers you can spare you can use those. The string method is cheap, easy and if done correctly as accurate as you need to be.
When you understand the process then you can go for your own way of doing it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBxK-OQ--fg

George  Hope it helps out.

[ribbert]

.....aligning the rear wheel to the front wheel. There are a couple of ways to do this. The string method is cheap, easy and if done correctly as accurate as you need to be.


George  Hope it helps out

I still find the quickest and most accurate way is with a couple of lengths of steel tube (square) sitting on 1 litre paint tins pressed against the back wheel.

Noel

[ribbert]

While all the advice given is good and your bike would benefit from it, most of it deals with improvements or issues that would not effect handling. Your bike sounds like it has an actual problem. FJ's are not particularly sensitive and even a "sloppy' one with crap tyres should not ride as you describe.
At that mileage it is hard to imagine anything being worn enough to create a problem.

"Twitches, hops and wiggles"  At one point my bike rode as you describe and I would definitely call it scary. Crossing the overbanding would see it shoot across half a lane and it would wander all over the road trying to hold a line through a corner. It happened within minutes of having a new rear tyre fitted and was so bad I pulled over convinced they had left the back wheel loose.  The handling scared the living daylights out of me and made the bike feel like it had a mind of it's own.  The problem was incompatible tyres. Initially I couldn't believe that tyres alone could have such an adverse effect on handling and even checked the frame for a break, it felt that severe. I put up with it for a while then ditched the tyre, handling was restored immediately. This was on a '93 with the 16"rear/17"front so there was much more scope for mismatching tyres.

However, if that is not a factor (haven't just changed tyres) George's advice is good, start at the front and work your way to the back checking everything that could effect handling. Think about the components that come into play when cornering and what changes from low to high speed.
My suggestions would be to check head stem bearings (had the lock nut come loose), wheel bearings F&R, chronic rear wheel misalignment or left loose, tyre pressures, swing arm bearing (just check for play, no need to remove and inspect).

Did this start after you made any changes?
Did it start suddenly or develop over time?
Has it always done this?
Noel

[Tiger]

  Check your rear tire pressure!!! I had similar handling problems a few years back with my Yamaha Vision....turned out to be very low pressure in the rear tire

If your going to change out a previous owners old rubber, (which is always a good idea in my opinion), go here for them... http://www.petes-superbike.com/index.php Prices are great and you can pay via paypal, credit card, etc and they deliver with in 48 hours normally

I ran with Avon's faithfully for years but changed to Pirelli Sport Demons over last winter for this season. Neither brand will let you down

John.

[chiz]

Hi
I started this by mentioning tires the rear is a Macadam AND the front a Laser I don't think this is a matched pair and they are in not good shape so the  expense of replacement would be more that worth it from what is written here. Will check again for play up front and see if there if it can be adjusted and tightened up, bearings are cheap enough so will put new ones in the wheels.
  Got new bushings for the forks I ordered them by size dimension... hope they fit. My ST doesn't hold air well in tires so I know what under inflation feels like but when right that bike practically corners itself, regardless of tire make tires still loose air??
Lots of really good stuff here and copied some of it to files..very helpfull.
Thanks Chiz   

[FJ_Hooligan]

... the forks have the required amount of oil in the 425cc I think of 15 wt the springs are cranked to all and the damping is set to midd and I unscrewed the anti dive knobs all the way out.The rear shock seems stiff.

A few other things:
Been awhile since I've jacked with a/d units, but from what I remember, you need to screw them IN (normal clockwise tightening direction) all the way to minimize the a/d function.

You may have poured 425cc of oil into each fork, but you really need to check the level and make sure both forks are the same.  Sometimes all the oil doesn't drain out if you just pull the drain screw.  After a few oil changes you might have way too much oil in one or both of the legs.

Thick oil and lots of preload on a weak (stock!) spring will make things very harsh. 

Stock rear shock is junk.

Looks like you're changing tires.  That's the best first move.  You need to sort your suspension components and any maintenance items next.

[ribbert]

Hi
I started this by mentioning tires the rear is a Macadam AND the front a Laser I don't think this is a matched pair

The pairing of those tyres is unlikely to cause any problems.

...regardless of tire make tires still loose air??

No. Shouldn't lose more than a couple of pound over 6 mths., if that.

Noel

[markmartin]

My ST doesn't hold air well in tires so I know what under inflation feels like but when right that bike practically corners itself, regardless of tire make tires still loose air??

Change the valves on those rims.