Overhauling the rear end and fitting the rpm shock. I need to take out the rear swing arm to sort out some corrosion and allow me to repaint it easily.
So I got to thinking whilst it is off why not replace with an ally rear from an earlier model as it will be lighter and polish up well, but I seem to remember readin somewhere that the abs shock is offset in the frame and swing arm to allow for space to house the abs pump (which is no longer insitu anyway!).
Is this right or am I making it up!!
Thanks in advance
Hmmmm id say it would bolt in ok but as for an offset , buggered if I know :scratch_one-s_head:
Quote from: nurse on September 11, 2013, 04:37:39 PM
Overhauling the rear end and fitting the rpm shock. I need to take out the rear swing arm to sort out some corrosion and allow me to repaint it easily.
So I got to thinking whilst it is off why not replace with an ally rear from an earlier model as it will be lighter and polish up well, but I seem to remember readin somewhere that the abs shock is offset in the frame and swing arm to allow for space to house the abs pump (which is no longer insitu anyway!).
Is this right or am I making it up!!
Thanks in advance
I just took a look at the 2 swingarms i have sitting in the shed (steel '91 non-abs and aluminium '90). The linkage pivot points are identical. I have a feeling that it did not matter if you had an ABS model or not, the steel swingarms are the same? My '91 is non-ABS and the shock is offset. When I converted to the FZ1 swingarm, I had to make up for the offset by installing larger spacer on one side of the mounting point than the other for the pivot, and the swingarm pivot point was centered on the arm.
HTH
Harvy
Hey harvy
Did you do a right up when you fitted the fz1 arm,, I have one waiting to fit into effie , but I'm going to do it without changing shocks or linkages :scratch_one-s_head:,, how did you make it fit in the frame
Quote from: Harvy on September 11, 2013, 05:13:41 PM
Quote from: nurse on September 11, 2013, 04:37:39 PM
Overhauling the rear end and fitting the rpm shock. I need to take out the rear swing arm to sort out some corrosion and allow me to repaint it easily.
So I got to thinking whilst it is off why not replace with an ally rear from an earlier model as it will be lighter and polish up well, but I seem to remember readin somewhere that the abs shock is offset in the frame and swing arm to allow for space to house the abs pump (which is no longer insitu anyway!).
Is this right or am I making it up!!
Thanks in advance
I just took a look at the 2 swingarms i have sitting in the shed (steel '91 non-abs and aluminium '90). The linkage pivot points are identical. I have a feeling that it did not matter if you had an ABS model or not, the steel swingarms are the same? My '91 is non-ABS and the shock is offset. When I converted to the FZ1 swingarm, I had to make up for the offset by installing larger spacer on one side of the mounting point than the other for the pivot, and the swingarm pivot point was centered on the arm.
HTH
Harvy
Cheers Harvy. That's useful! Do you (or anyone else) know when the compatible years started from if 90 was the end of the aluminium swing arms? I assume these years also ran with the 'dog bone' set up.
Id say the alloy stopped before 88 , as my 88 has the steel arm
Quote from: fj11.5 on September 11, 2013, 05:20:09 PM
Hey harvy
Did you do a right up when you fitted the fz1 arm,, I have one waiting to fit into effie , but I'm going to do it without changing shocks or linkages :scratch_one-s_head:,, how did you make it fit in the frame
Yes Rod, It was some years ago now and it may have been on the old Yahoo group site.
Basically, you need to press the bearings in 2mm either side and take 2mm off either side of the pivot area (measure it first just to make certain obviously) and use all the FJ components (centre spacer, outer dust caps, pivot bolt). Replace the rear brake light switch with a hydraulic banjo bolt switch. Use a Honda VF1000R '86 (from memory) 18 tooth front sprocket with the outer face machined off so that the c/s nut has some thread to mount too. A pair of Soupys adjustable dogbones. FZ1 wheel, brake mount and caliper and torque arm.
AS stated, mine is on a '91 and I had plenty of advise from Eric and Frank over the US. If you are doing your on pre-'88 (I think), Frank Moore is your man as you will need to convert to dogbone links.
HTH
Harvy
Quote from: nurse on September 11, 2013, 05:33:43 PM
Cheers Harvy. That's useful! Do you (or anyone else) know when the compatible years started from if 90 was the end of the aluminium swing arms? I assume these years also ran with the 'dog bone' set up.
My thoughts are that an aluminium arm from 88-90 should work on '91+. just not sure if '88 was the year that the change to dogbones occured.
Harvy
Thanks harvy,
You make it sound easy mate, if I'm going to get it in before summer hits, I should get my arse into gear
Cheers
Rod
Oh, yeah its going into my 84/89 look alike
Quote from: fj11.5 on September 11, 2013, 04:58:30 PM
Hmmmm id say it would bolt in ok but as for an offset , buggered if I know :scratch_one-s_head:
the relay arm is different and the shock clevis is wider on the 3xw
Quote from: fj11.5 on September 11, 2013, 05:36:45 PM
Id say the alloy stopped before 88 , as my 88 has the steel arm
Nope, my '90, and every 3rd Gen (US '89-'90) I've seen, has an Al arm....
I put a 89 AL swing arm in my 91.
Direct bolt in, non ABS 91.
Leon
Quote from: 1tinindian on September 11, 2013, 09:31:33 PM
I put a 89 AL swing arm in my 91.
Direct bolt in, non ABS 91.
Leon
And it was shinny......... :lol:
George
The 88'-90' aluminum swing arm should bolt up with no modifications. Something else to consider. The 91'-93' swing arm relay, P/N 3XW-2217A-00-00 is different than the 88'-90' swing arm relay. You should be able to use the 91'-93' swing arm relay and 88'-90' swing arm. The 91'-93' RPM shock has a wider lower clevis than the 88'-90' OEM shock lower clevis.
Fred
So the Clevis mount point is wider on the 93, therefore by using some spacer material between 88-90 mount and the 91-93 rear shock could work?
I may restore and refit the current swing arm for now and keep an eye out for a tidy 88-90 swing arm in the mean time!
Quote from: 1tinindian on September 11, 2013, 09:31:33 PM
I put a 89 AL swing arm in my 91.
Direct bolt in, non ABS 91.
Leon
Did you have any issues with mounting the swing arm relay?
Don't suppose anyone happens to know the weight difference between the steel 93 and the earlier ally version?
Quote from: nurse on September 12, 2013, 02:54:55 AM
Quote from: 1tinindian on September 11, 2013, 09:31:33 PM
I put a 89 AL swing arm in my 91.
Direct bolt in, non ABS 91.
Leon
Did you have any issues with mounting the swing arm relay?
No issues at all, as I said, it was a direct bolt in.
The only mods were the use of my own shortened dog bones and the polish job.
Leon
Quote from: 1tinindian on September 12, 2013, 06:57:01 AM
Quote from: nurse on September 12, 2013, 02:54:55 AM
Quote from: 1tinindian on September 11, 2013, 09:31:33 PM
I put a 89 AL swing arm in my 91.
Direct bolt in, non ABS 91.
Leon
Makes sense. If you can use the 3XW relay arm with the alum swing arm everything else should bolt together. In the UK Fj club catalogue the have good pictures of the swingarm/linkages showing which bearings you need if replacing. Sorry could not get the link to open this morning....
Changing from a steel arm to Ali could not be any easier, it's a straight swop, you are correct about the off set but that is taken care of by spring mount which is the off set part, this will match the off set on the frame, Stop being a "Girlie" and do it! By the way you will need the chain adjuster for the ali arm 'cose the steel ones are different.
Quote from: Grey runner on September 12, 2013, 10:11:14 AM
By the way you will need the chain adjuster for the ali arm 'cose the steel ones are different.
Good catch!
Leon
Quote from: 1tinindian on September 12, 2013, 12:34:47 PM
Quote from: Grey runner on September 12, 2013, 10:11:14 AM
By the way you will need the chain adjuster for the ali arm 'cose the steel ones are different.
Good catch!
Leon
You guys are bloody fantastic! If you lived closer I'd buy you all a beer!
As collectives go we do rock!!
Ok, quick update. 1990 ally swing arm on its way, thanks to a retired old sailor with a sympathetic streak for those trying to restore/mod older bikes. He had an old 88 he was breaking and a tidy 90 he was using as a hobby bike. So when I told him what I was doing he stripped out the 90 (plus chain tensioners) for me. All for less that £40!! Bargain!
Now I just need to decide if I polish it my self or pay some other mug to do it! Given the list of other bits I have on the go I may send it out!?
Quick question can the relay arm be taken out without removing the collector box?
Just as a point of interest for those interested, the 3xw swing arm without tensioners, spindle or bushing (but with bearings - and a bit of corrosion here and there) weighs in at 7.8kg which by today's exchange rate is about 17lbs US.
Also gone is the ABS pump, didn't weigh it but it must have been at least 2-3kg.
I am about to put a alloy swinging arm in my 3xw this winter. I have the arm just have to polish it up. I might do the cushion drive rubber and I hope to have a new shock .
Ok folks need a bit of help/reassurance. The 1990 alu swing arm has finally arrived. All looks ok (no tensioners with it as promised but that's a slightly different issue).
The swing arm itself from the 90 appears to have a different internal and external diameter compared to the 93. The actual tube of the frame is wider. Does this mean it has a different axle?
I offered my 93 axle up to it and it looks too short?! Is this compensated for by the different tensioner, as this 1990 swing arm clearly has a wider opening where the tensioner and axle nut sits.
I'm running the gsxr rear btw so will this observed change in width of the swingarm opening affect the spacers needed, compared to that which were used on the 93 instal??
Any thoughts from those with experience welcome (1tinindian in particular)
Don't mean to be a PITA but just want to know what bits I need before polish and reassembly.
Thanks in advance
Mike
The rear axles are all the same according to the part number.
The adjuster are different between aluminum & steel swing arms.
I believe the inside width is the same between the steel & aluminum.
Are you sure you received an FJ part?
Randy - RPM
Quote from: racerrad8 on September 30, 2013, 04:28:15 PM
The rear axles are all the same according to the part number.
The adjuster are different between aluminum & steel swing arms.
I believe the inside width is the same between the steel & aluminum.
Are you sure you received an FJ part?
Randy - RPM
Baldy found the 1990 axle to be shorter than the 1993 axle on the weekend. I already knew, but didn`t tell him till after he speared Darrans old axle into FJ3. :sorry: (about 2 cm from memory.) :drinks:
Quote from: The General on September 30, 2013, 04:47:03 PM
Baldy found the 1990 axle to be shorter than the 1993 axle on the weekend. I already knew, but didn`t tell him till after he speared Darrans old axle into FJ3. :sorry: (about 2 cm from memory.) :drinks:
That is interesting, I just checked the application of part number; 36Y-25381-00-00 before posting and it is listed for all of the US model years.
Maybe the international bikes have a different axle...?
Randy - RPM
Another mystery... If its any help I have a 1989 swing arm off on the bench that I can measure..?
I set it in the back patio on a work stand waiting for Leon to come and polish it.... But he wouldn't take the bate... So I sat a beer next to it, came back a few days later the beer was gone there laid my poor swingarm untouched... Running out of nice days here, I guess that I am going have to dig into the project. :lol:
I am not following you on "The swing arm itself from the 90 appears to have a different internal and external diameter compared to the 93." ?
George
Quote from: nurse on September 12, 2013, 03:57:39 PM
As collectives go we do rock!!
Yeah, that's true. :yes:
Cap'n Ron. . .
The external dimensions is probably different because of the different dimensions of the material used, the inside measurement is subject to the fact that the ali arm has to be under tension to acheive maximum stiffness when torqued up so is by default wider than the complete components on the axle. If you dont believe me go and loosen your rear axle nut and see what happens to the fit.
Ok folks a quick update for you all. The ally swing arm has arrived, has been striped and cleaned and is currently being polished. There has been some talk about the removal of and replacing of the anodising on it. I didn't know it was anodised but 'my man what knows' insists it is and is looking into if it can be replaced once polished.
The swingarm is in ok condition there are a few minor bits but for £30 you can't moan at that. By the time it's done and reinstalled you will never know!
Have had my scales out and have some interesting findings. The ally arm only weighs 4.26kg. The steel is 7.8kg. A weight saving of 3.5kg! Fantastic
The initial size issues are now clear to me. The axle is the same on the 90 (ally) swingarm and the 93 (we know that) but what is different is the mounting mechanism. It mounts on the chain tensioners of the ally swingarm. These tensioners sit 'inside' the swingarm this means in effect the overall outside width of the swingarm is wider than the mounting faces of the axle itself. On the 93 the axle actually mounts up to the swingarm itself, therefore this explaines the apparent difference in widths between the two.
All that's left now is to polish the arm, modify soupys adjustable dogbones (because I bought the ones which lower-not raise. What a muppet!) any suggestions on how much material to remove welcomed. To give me options to lower/raise 2 inches I estimate about 7mm of material from each end. But need to offer it up when it's all back together. Also need to install the RPM shock into all this which is sitting waiting.
Some indoor work to do now the weather is turning. Need to dig out the heater soon!
Forgot to ask, does anyone happen to know if the 4 swingarm bearing part numbers are the same for the ally arm as they are on the 93. I only have a parts fische for the 3xw (93)
Quote from: nurse on October 14, 2013, 04:27:31 PM
Forgot to ask, does anyone happen to know if the 4 swingarm bearing part numbers are the same for the ally arm as they are on the 93. I only have a parts fische for the 3xw (93)
There are only two bearings in the swing arm,
84-93 Rear Arm Bushing Bearing (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ARearArmBushingBearing)
Randy - RPM
What about the bearings on the pivot shaft?
That is the two bearings I am referring to; #3 84-93 Rear Arm Bushing Bearing (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ARearArmBushingBearing) pivot on #2 84-93 Rear Arm Bushing (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3AReararmBushing)
Randy - RPM
Quote from: nurse on October 14, 2013, 04:27:31 PM
Forgot to ask, does anyone happen to know if the 4 swingarm bearing part numbers are the same for the ally arm as they are on the 93. I only have a parts fische for the 3xw (93)
Here is the swing arm diagram for the 89'90'. The 4 bearings #20 that are used on the relay arm pivot points, are the same for the 88' and later FJ's, and the 2 bearings #3 that are at the swing arm mount points are the same for all years of FJ1100/1200's.
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1989/FJ1200W/SWING+ARM/parts.html (http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1989/FJ1200W/SWING+ARM/parts.html)
Fred
Ahhh, there is my lack of experience on the late model swing arm. The early model only uses the two bearings in the swingarm and the relay linkage is where the bearing are located on that set up.
On the late model they have the relay linkage bearing in the swing arm and fit 89-92 Rear Arm Bearing (http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ARearArmBearing). And to Fred's point, that is bearing #20 and they do not work on the early model bikes...I think that is what he was trying to say
Randy - RPM
Brief footnote for those that may swop onto an older but lighter ally swing arm. In addition to the swing arm it self and the chain adjusters, you will also need the washer that sits between the castle nut and the swingarm. The washer on the 93 is larger and will not sit properly when re installed. All other bits should be fine.
On a different note I had the gsxr rear in my 93 Swingarm and have swapped it to the ally swinger. I had two spacers which sat snugly between the swinger and the sprocket on the chain side of the wheel on the 93. Now this set up has been swooped over and sits inside the ally arm the two spacers needed a lot more encouragement to fit.
Can anyone offer any wisdom as to wether you think this may offset the centering of the rear wheel?
I have a 89' 3CV and use the GSXR750 rear wheel. I used the mod directions exactly as the file was written.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3380.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3380.0)
As far as I can tell my chain alignment is good. I have put about 6000 miles on the new chain and sprocket with no noticeable odd wear patterns.
Fred
Quote from: aviationfred on January 24, 2014, 09:51:59 AM
I have a 89' 3CV and use the GSXR750 rear wheel. I used the mod directions exactly as the file was written.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3380.0 (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3380.0)
As far as I can tell my chain alignment is good. I have put about 6000 miles on the new chain and sprocket with no noticeable odd wear patterns.
Fred
This is how mine sits, so I shall run it in the new arm and see how it goes!
Cheers Fred