grinding sound when trying to start

[DudesNStuff]

got the bike not too long ago, dont know much about working with engines, just needed a fun, primary vehicle to ride. I got a 1986 FJ1200 and it was running good for awhile but it started to not disengage the clutch all the way )starting in first with the clutch pulled in would cause the bike to lurch forward) and today it died on my way home and i tried to start it and whenever it would start to "catch" to start the engine, i heard a horrible grinding noise and then i quickly let go of the starter switch. i left the bike their and walked home but when i get back to my bike what should i check first?

[oldktmdude]

   Use the search function on this forum and look up bleeding the clutch and clutch slave cylinder leaking.

[red]

got the bike not too long ago, dont know much about working with engines, just needed a fun, primary vehicle to ride. I got a 1986 FJ1200 and it was running good for awhile but it started to not disengage the clutch all the way )starting in first with the clutch pulled in would cause the bike to lurch forward) and today it died on my way home and i tried to start it and whenever it would start to "catch" to start the engine, i heard a horrible grinding noise and then i quickly let go of the starter switch. i left the bike their and walked home but when i get back to my bike what should i check first?

DudesNStuff,

The starter may have just been trying to start on the edge of a tooth.  Put the bike in fourth or fifth gear, and release the clutch handle.  With the key OFF, get a push (or roll down grade) about a yard (meter) or so, to rotate the dead engine and gearing a bit.  Shift to Neutral, and see if the starter engages normally, then.  If it does, you just hit a brief patch of bad luck.  Make sure your battery is healthy and fully charged, and the battery terminals are clean.  If this "grinding" happens often in the future, though, the starter or gearing may be bad.  Chances are, you may seldom or never hear it happen again.

The hard shifting probably means one of two things: the clutch master cylinder may simply be low on fluid, OR that the clutch slave and/or clutch master cylinders may need bleeding.  Bleeding the hydraulic systems will be scheduled events, like oil changes.   Check for fluid leaks, while you are about it.  A leaking hydraulic line (end-bolt) may need to be torqued to specs, or the leaking hydraulic cylinder can be rebuilt, or maybe replaced, and you'll be good to go.

Cheers,
Red

[fj11.5]

As red said, it may or may not do the non start grinding noise again, I've had my fj for nearly 8 years, and its had the exact same issue you describe with starting,  but only when she feels like it, or if she,s sat for a few weeks,, I've never had her not start after three or four attempts,  just put up with the horrible crunching /grinding sound when it happens, , if it did it everyday id be more worried

[Dan Filetti]

I agree with the others on the starter/ crunching noise -probably not a major issue.  Regarding the poor clutch performance, filling the master and bleeding the clutch are merely treating the symptoms, if this even works at all.  There is a more systemic issue here.  Dollars to doughnuts the 'real issue' is that the slave is leaking hydraulic fluid and you have lost pressure because air has worked it's way into the system.  Not to worry, it's a common failure point for the otherwise reliable FJ.   

What happens is that the seals in the slave leak and need to be replaced.  As you likely know, hydraulic fluid is corrosive to paint.  Look for chipping paint, or actual fluid down by the slave (by you left boot, -if you can't readily find it follow the hydraulic line down to it) this is a sure sign that the slave is leaking.  To remedy this you're going to need to replace the seals.  Oder a slave rebuild kit from Randy @ RPM http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Clutch%3AS%2FK it'll cost you about $20 and take a few days to get it to you via priority mail. 

In the mean time (get the bike home) remove the slave, get all of that old nasty fluid out of there, disassemble the slave get it ready for repair and replacement.  Buy some good quality hydraulic fluid, read/ research here about the various way to bleed the system (there are a number of ways to do so, and it can be a little tough, but it's very likely well within most people's abilities), and you should be back on the road by the end of the week. 

Let us know your progress,

Good luck,

Dan

PS, when the emergency is over, introduce yourself, tell us a bit about yourself/ where you're from year of the bike, pics even...

[red]

Oh yeah, about the hydraulic fluid levels:
Once you remove the top and fill the clutch master cylinder, you can use the sight-window on the side of the clutch master cylinder to check the fluid level, with just a look.  Do this before you start off, each day.  Same goes for the front brake master cylinder.

Cheers,
Red

[DudesNStuff]

hey all, thanks for the info! just as an update, i opened the top of the clutch master cylinder to see the fluid (the window was too cloudy to see through) and saw that it was pretty full but there was a lot of crud floating around in the fluid, i also noticed that there was some fluid running down the left side of the engine. i didn't have time or enough sunlight to follow the leak back but I decided to go ahead and buy the slave rebuild kit from Randy (along with a few other neat-o items) because i feel like it could use some new parts anyways. When my things arrive i will post updates. If anyone has any ideas on why there was crud in the fluid I would love to know. Thanks again!

[red]

hey all, thanks for the info! just as an update, i opened the top of the clutch master cylinder to see the fluid (the window was too cloudy to see through) and saw that it was pretty full but there was a lot of crud floating around in the fluid, i also noticed that there was some fluid running down the left side of the engine. i didn't have time or enough sunlight to follow the leak back but I decided to go ahead and buy the slave rebuild kit from Randy (along with a few other neat-o items) because i feel like it could use some new parts anyways. When my things arrive i will post updates. If anyone has any ideas on why there was crud in the fluid I would love to know. Thanks again!

DudesNStuff,

So, did it start? 

Clean out all the old hydraulic fluid in the master cylinder, using paper towels.  The floating crud may be coming from the top rubber sheet/gasket under the cover, so clean and dry that rubber on both sides, with paper towels.  If you find any holes, the hydraulic fluid will absorb water, from the atmosphere.  That's not good for the clutch system, but it is DANGEROUS for the braking systems.  Replace any sheet gaskets in the hydraulics that have any holes.  Clean your sight-window too, while the master is empty.  You may not need to rebuild the slave cylinder immediately, if it's a very slow leak, but it definitely needs doing, if you find the slave is leaking.  That crud may also be in your hydraulic hoses now, so when you do the rebuild, disconnect both ends of the hose and blow out the hose from each end, using DRY compressed air.  You may need to clean out your rear brake reservoir, and check that cap/gasket, also.  You can check that rear brake fluid level with a bright light, without opening the system.  Once you have good gaskets and seals, and flush fresh brake fluid throughout the system, you're good as new.

Cheers,
Red

[DudesNStuff]

Red, it started 
it didnt start immediately, it took a few tries but it eventually started. i have heard that grinding noise since then but its only when im trying to start the bike facing uphill, i found that i cant put it in neutral unless i push it forward an inch or two. i think i should also mention that i can NEVER start it in the morning, and im not sure why. i think it might have something to do with the fact that i park it facing uphill? i live on the top of a hill so (unfortunately) my only option is to let it roll down the hill a bit in neutral and then put it into second gear to "push" start it. i've got that down to a science though so its smooth and clean and not jerky at all so there's that. im waiting for the rebuild kit to get here before cleaning the system, i work 12 hours a day and 7 days a week so my time is limited to family when i get home. thanks again for all the help!