A sea of gas from ??? Please help

[racerrad8]

What is this "vent hole mod" you have mentioned?

Arnie

I believe he is referring this post from last summer; Carb fuel leak - THE FIX

Randy - RPM

   

[Smoothops]

Randy (RPM) posted a trick he uses.... Find a rod the same OD as the ID of the needle seats, use that to support the seat while gripping the seat with pliers so you can pull them out without crushing them. This assumes you HAVE removed the small screw securing the seats....

Good trick, wish I had known before. I would add to place some material between the pliers and the seats.  Locking pliers work good, as one can concentrate on the pulling.  The brass seats are very soft, so not too much force on the grip.   

[Smoothops]

Done with the carb work, installed new seats calibrated the floats and did the vent hole mod on my carbs.  Drained the oil and about 5 quarts of fuel/oil mixture came out, my engine must be spotless inside.  Put new oil and fired her up.  Had it running for about 30 minutes and sounded fine, with no leak whatsoever, the vent hole idea works!.  Randy I have some experience working with bikes but I needed HELP from other FJ owners that have already done what I was doing.  I needed the parts today and could not wait the 10 plus days it takes for parts coming from California to Canada.  The other FJ owners comments led me in the right direction and I thank them all.  In another wavelenght, the list I posted for the needle/seat sets was confirmed at the local dealer today, they cross referenced the part number of the sets I bought and they do fit all of the bikes on the list I posted, plus the Yamaha XS650 and the XS1100, they all use the same needle/seat.  The sets were 9 dollars each.  Now it is time to sync the carbs and I'll be reading from the section that shows the tricks for this bike.   Au revoir

'

Home made carb balancer... The little restrictors in the line were from Harbor Freight, they are in there cheap brake bleed kit. Just remember to shut your engine off when you unhook the vacuum lead...
So it does 2 carbs at a time? I can see 2 lines.  Also, the FJ has 3 fittings for the lines, not 4.  I guess I have some reading to do. 



George

[Smoothops]

What is this "vent hole mod" you have mentioned?

Arnie

Yes, Randy is right, this is the mod I did.  I did not install stronger plunger springs, it worked just with the vents.  The post made sense to me when I read it and I've heard about that problem in other bikes, so I did it. One oddity is that I drained the crankcase and poured 3 liters of new oil.  The oil level went to the upper mark on the clever window.  I ran the bike for about 30 minutes, there was some smoke at the beginning, I guess from all of the thin gas/oil mixture that was there before.  After a while there was no more smoke and the engine idled just fine for not being carb synched.  The following day the clever window was showing no oil.  I could have not burned all of that oil without a cloud of smoke, so where did the oil go?   

I believe he is referring this post from last summer; Carb fuel leak - THE FIX

Randy - RPM

   

[Pat Conlon]

......The following day the clever window was showing no oil.  I could have not burned all of that oil without a cloud of smoke, so where did the oil go?

Now that you mentioned it, my bike does the same thing. I put her up on the center stand, add oil as needed, yep, right at the top of the sight glass...perfect...job done.

Then I take the bike off the center stand and on to the side stand...WTF?   Where did all the oil go?
How can that be?
I put the bike back on the center stand and the oil magically reappears in the sight window. WTF?
It's been happening since the bike was new.... One day someone will explain it to me.
I'm glad you asked the question I've been afraid to ask for 29 years...fuckin bike has magic I tell ya...

[FJmonkey]

Pat, now that you mention it, the fuel level does the same thing on my bike.... We need to compare our notes on this stuff...

[movenon]

Done with the carb work, installed new seats calibrated the floats and did the vent hole mod on my carbs.  Drained the oil and about 5 quarts of fuel/oil mixture came out, my engine must be spotless inside.  Put new oil and fired her up.  Had it running for about 30 minutes and sounded fine, with no leak whatsoever, the vent hole idea works!.  Randy I have some experience working with bikes but I needed HELP from other FJ owners that have already done what I was doing.  I needed the parts today and could not wait the 10 plus days it takes for parts coming from California to Canada.  The other FJ owners comments led me in the right direction and I thank them all.  In another wavelenght, the list I posted for the needle/seat sets was confirmed at the local dealer today, they cross referenced the part number of the sets I bought and they do fit all of the bikes on the list I posted, plus the Yamaha XS650 and the XS1100, they all use the same needle/seat.  The sets were 9 dollars each.  Now it is time to sync the carbs and I'll be reading from the section that shows the tricks for this bike.   Au revoir

'

Home made carb balancer... The little restrictors in the line were from Harbor Freight, they are in there cheap brake bleed kit. Just remember to shut your engine off when you unhook the vacuum lead...
So it does 2 carbs at a time? I can see 2 lines.  Also, the FJ has 3 fittings for the lines, not 4.  I guess I have some reading to do. 



George

Yes, I do 2 carb's at a time as per the factory service manual. No need to be more complex.
Your FJ has 4 vacum ports, 3 of them with black caps on and 1 with a vacum line going up to a black box. (keeping things simple here)
It has 3 screw adjustments. one for the left two carb's and one on the right side for the other 2 carb's, and one in the middle to balance the left 2 to the right 2 carb's.
In the files section I think there is a PDF of a service manual which is handy to have. I put mine on the desktop so it easy to find and use.

There are commercial balancers with 2 and 4 lines, they are OK also. I am just successfully poor and have other places to put the money . As far as accuracy go's I will stack this one up against any of them. The fluid in it is not critical as to how much, about what you see. The fluid is two stoke oil so no harm if you accidentally unplug a line while the engine is running.  No need for a scale, you are just equalizing the levels. The key to the whole thing is the restrictors (black things in the line).
That takes the "pulsing" out of the line. I salvaged them out of a inexpensive auto brake bleeding kit. The holes are real small . The tubing is held onto the board with TV cable coax clamps.

George

[RichBaker]

What is this "vent hole mod" you have mentioned?

Arnie

Yes, Randy is right, this is the mod I did.  I did not install stronger plunger springs, it worked just with the vents.  The post made sense to me when I read it and I've heard about that problem in other bikes, so I did it. One oddity is that I drained the crankcase and poured 3 liters of new oil.  The oil level went to the upper mark on the clever window.  I ran the bike for about 30 minutes, there was some smoke at the beginning, I guess from all of the thin gas/oil mixture that was there before.  After a while there was no more smoke and the engine idled just fine for not being carb synched.  The following day the clever window was showing no oil.  I could have not burned all of that oil without a cloud of smoke, so where did the oil go?   

I believe he is referring this post from last summer; Carb fuel leak - THE FIX

Randy - RPM

   

If you didn't change, or at least, drain the filter, there was still gas/oil in there...

[Smoothops]

Done with the carb work, installed new seats calibrated the floats and did the vent hole mod on my carbs.  Drained the oil and about 5 quarts of fuel/oil mixture came out, my engine must be spotless inside.  Put new oil and fired her up.  Had it running for about 30 minutes and sounded fine, with no leak whatsoever, the vent hole idea works!.  Randy I have some experience working with bikes but I needed HELP from other FJ owners that have already done what I was doing.  I needed the parts today and could not wait the 10 plus days it takes for parts coming from California to Canada.  The other FJ owners comments led me in the right direction and I thank them all.  In another wavelenght, the list I posted for the needle/seat sets was confirmed at the local dealer today, they cross referenced the part number of the sets I bought and they do fit all of the bikes on the list I posted, plus the Yamaha XS650 and the XS1100, they all use the same needle/seat.  The sets were 9 dollars each.  Now it is time to sync the carbs and I'll be reading from the section that shows the tricks for this bike.   Au revoir

'

Home made carb balancer... The little restrictors in the line were from Harbor Freight, they are in there cheap brake bleed kit. Just remember to shut your engine off when you unhook the vacuum lead...
So it does 2 carbs at a time? I can see 2 lines.  Also, the FJ has 3 fittings for the lines, not 4.  I guess I have some reading to do. 



George

Yes, I do 2 carb's at a time as per the factory service manual. No need to be more complex.
Your FJ has 4 vacum ports, 3 of them with black caps on and 1 with a vacum line going up to a black box. (keeping things simple here)
It has 3 screw adjustments. one for the left two carb's and one on the right side for the other 2 carb's, and one in the middle to balance the left 2 to the right 2 carb's.
In the files section I think there is a PDF of a service manual which is handy to have. I put mine on the desktop so it easy to find and use.

There are commercial balancers with 2 and 4 lines, they are OK also. I am just successfully poor and have other places to put the money . As far as accuracy go's I will stack this one up against any of them. The fluid in it is not critical as to how much, about what you see. The fluid is two stoke oil so no harm if you accidentally unplug a line while the engine is running.  No need for a scale, you are just equalizing the levels. The key to the whole thing is the restrictors (black things in the line).
That takes the "pulsing" out of the line. I salvaged them out of a inexpensive auto brake bleeding kit. The holes are real small . The tubing is held onto the board with TV cable coax clamps.

George

Skillfully clever George, Thanks!  I'll make myself one of these.  I just wander how you know that the left side carbs are at the same level with the right side carbs.  My guess is that 2 of the vacuum ports one on each side have to be plugged, then use the two lines each on one of the unplugged carbs, left and right. Having all 4 visible seems nice.  The 2 stroke oil is a great idea too.   

[Smoothops]

......The following day the clever window was showing no oil.  I could have not burned all of that oil without a cloud of smoke, so where did the oil go?

Now that you mentioned it, my bike does the same thing. I put her up on the center stand, add oil as needed, yep, right at the top of the sight glass...perfect...job done.

Then I take the bike off the center stand and on to the side stand...WTF?   Where did all the oil go?
How can that be?
I put the bike back on the center stand and the oil magically reappears in the sight window. WTF?
It's been happening since the bike was new.... One day someone will explain it to me.
I'm glad you asked the question I've been afraid to ask for 29 years...fuckin bike has magic I tell ya...

It will drive a shrink insane.  I checked my window and the oil is exactly where it was when I filled it.  My wild guess is that when the engine is started, the oil goes up in it, draining the window.  Once the bike is turned off, it slooooooowly returns to the bottom of the crankcase, where it can be seen through the window.  I feel much better now that I saw the oil at the same level.  This bike is new to me and loosing a lot of oil is not a good thing. 

[movenon]

Skillfully clever George, Thanks!  I'll make myself one of these.  I just wander how you know that the left side carbs are at the same level with the right side carbs.  My guess is that 2 of the vacuum ports one on each side have to be plugged, then use the two lines each on one of the unplugged carbs, left and right. Having all 4 visible seems nice.  The 2 stroke oil is a great idea too.   

hook lines up to carb 1 and 2 start engine and balance the fluid level in the tubes with the adjusting screw. Turn engine off and recap carb's 1 and 2.

hook lines up to carb 3 and 4 start the engine balance them together. Turn off the engine. Recap the vacum ports.

hook lines up to carb 1 and carb 3 and this will balance the 2 banks of carbs together.

In my mind it doesn't matter which bank you start with, the left 2 or the right 2. Just pick one. Balance those 2 together, then do the other 2, balance them together.
Then hook one line to the left bank and the other to the right bank and balance the bank's together.

I usually go through this procedure 2 times.

You want the engine warmed up when you do this but not boiling hot.... Helps to have a fan blowing on the engine or be reasonably quick about it.

I spend more time adjusting the idle air screws than anything. I have done the blip test and all that, but it seems difficult for me to knowing get it right.
After balancing I usually turn the idle down way down, mine will idle nicely at 500 RPM then I lean it out until she starts to react,  then turn the screw back rich 1/2 to 3/4 turn. One person recommends richning up the 2 inside Cly by 1/2 turn extra which make some sense. When done turn the idle back up to 1050 RPM or close to. I am not a professional tuner.... Just a guy in a garage.

If you pull one balance line off without shutting off the engine first it will suck the two stock out out quickly.... No harm done thanks to the two stroke oil. You just say stupid me and put some more oil back in the tube....

If you build a balancer this is the restrictors you are looking for. 2 come in this kit for 4.99. http://www.harborfreight.com/one-man-brake-bleeder-kit-37201.html

George

[ribbert]

If you are going to make one of those, spend another $5 on tubing and have all four hooked up at once and save all the friggin' around.
What George has made works a treat and I don't know if he has tried it with 4 but it's a lot easier AND quicker.



Given you want to start with a hot motor, something like this is also a good idea.
These are from a supermarket dairy cabinet that was being thrown out.



Noel

Noel

[ribbert]

The engine should be at operating temperature when you start, which means it's only going to get hotter.

The plastic hose goes soft very quickly and can kink under its own weight which will give you a false reading

You need to support it from above or use a short length of something stiffer on the carb or what I do is put a sheath of thicker / stiffer hose loosely over the outside.  See below.




If you are going to spin your tank around, as in Georges photo, you MUST put something over the battery first. A dead short across the battery with the fuel tank is not a good thing.

Noel