Starter motor woes.

[dogtired]

Symptoms: -
Quickly degenerated from normal operation to sounding like a near dead flat battery. (over possibly 5 starting events)
Now when you push the starter all it does is make a pathetic attempt to engage the starter with a myopic clunk sort of sound, the same sound that any motor makes when your battery is near dead flat. I am sure we have all heard it at some stage.

What I have checked: -
The battery is fully charged, and I have had it checked for load etc by an auto elec. The battery despite being a few years old is strong and not the problem.
I have run a decent shorting clip between the negative terminal and the engine to make sure it wasn't on the earth lead of the battery. Behaved exactly the same.
Cleaned all terminals, pos and neg and all wires on battery, both leads on the relay directly behind the battery under the seat, cleaned and tightened them.
Nothing changed, still the same.
In desperation grabbed a screwdriver and shorted the two terminals on the relay to bypass it, to "prove" the relay. Exact same noise... exact same result. It isn't the relay.

My dilemma: -
It is looking very much like the starter is the problem, firstly, the starter earths through the engine case? Am I right?
Quick examination it looks like the wire from the relay goes straight into the starter motor without actually terminating on a bolt like a starter on a car? Am I right?

It sounds very much like a situation I have seen a few times before, where someone goes out to the car, and it just goes click click click, so they get out, and take their shoe off and belt the battery terminals, hop back in it and it fires up no problems. It sounds and "feels" to me like a simple loose connection somewhere...

Is there an easy way into the starter motor to just check where the wire from the relay terminates on it to make sure it isn't something stupidly simple like a loose connection?

Or are these things prone to starter motor failure, I did a fair search through the site for starter motor problems, and there are issues with some starters, but not like I am having, this thing has always wound over very well, hot or cold. Except for this issue it has been a brilliant starter.


Any suggestions would be helpful.

[rktmanfj]

Humph... must be a bad starter solenoid...     

[racerrad8]

You need to check for battery voyage at the battery cable connection at the starter motor. If you have full battery voltage there when the starter button is depressed, then it is the starter motor.

If there is no or low voltage at the starter then check the next terminal up at the starter solenoid/relay. If the voltage is good on one side but not the other then it is bad.

If the voltage there is bad with the starter button depressed at both terminals, check it at the battery and see what it is.

If low voltage then most likely a bad battery.

Randy - RPM

P.S. - POtato/poTAto

[rktmanfj]

P.S. - POtato/poTAto

[FJSpringy]

Dogtired you have ruined a perfectly good thread, you have logically stated the problem, then laid out your once again logical trouble shooting and results, then asked several questions which have been well articulated.

In future please just state "my bike is broken" then descend into a long rambling statements about bikes you used to own in the past. This will allow many people to ask many irrelevant questions and offer many strange but entertaining answers.




PS: my vote is a voltage drop on the way to the starter.

[Steve_in_Florida]

P.S. - POtato/poTAto

You guys just brought up one of my all-time favourite web sites:

http://www.pota.to/

Yes, it's STUPID, but the fact that someone established and still maintains it astounds me! (It's been around for years)

Steve

[Arnie]

If we assume your logical trouble shooting procedure has been correct, the starter is your problem.
However, before you send a bunch of paypal credits off to get a new starter you can try this.

Remove the starter.  
Open it up.  
Clean all the grease and flecks of carbon and metal off the bushings and armature.
Check that the brushes are of sufficient length (5.5mm min)
IF not, get new brushes and install them.
Clean the grooves between the commutator contacts with a broken hacksaw blade.
Re-grease the bushings at both ends and re-assemble.

This is called a starter overhaul.  It will frequently double the service life of your starter, and allow it to spin freely and with greater strength.

IF it doesn't help, you can still send off those paypal credits :-/

Arnie    

[dogtired]

Thanks all for the replies, now I gotta go dig through my storage and find my multimeter... probably easier to just go buy a cheapie than find mine.

I sincerely  apologize for the manner in which I have posted, in future I shall start any further threads with, "My bike won't go, help!" with no indication of the problem or symptoms, I shall also endeavour to ask what oil I should be using and garner some tyre recommendations. If it will at all help I shall mention a large US based manufacturer of V-twin motorcycles for us to discuss in the same thread. 

While I am on the boil here, has this forum seen a thread on countersteering?

Another question, will my left over Lucas Replacement Wiring Harness Smoke that I use on my '71 Bonneville work on a negative earth system?