Electrical woes part 2

[fintip]

Well. Bike was doing 'stable' ok, when a new symptom appeared: it seemed my charging system might not be working. Why? Starter would try to start, but would sound too weak to turn over.

However, the bike would be push-startable. After another day or two, couldn't even pushstart.

Took battery in. Charged it overnight. Rode it (I think I pushstarted it, I usually push start it lately since I've never gone in and properly resolved that started button issue; for a while, the starter button worked almost every time, now it seems to almost never work). Was keeping check of the battery. Realized that as long as I was push starting, the battery could take a day or two without being charged. (A bit odd? Intermittent charging problem?)

Then after a few days, one day, having come off the charger that morning, turned the key on the bike, and all the lights that came on were incredibly dim. Battery already dead? Odd....

Leave battery charging for a few hours. (.75 amp charger, for those who are wondering, the smallest of motorcycle trickle chargers, on an AGM battery that was purchased last November). Battery charger says fully charged.

Put battery in bike. It's as if it hasn't charged at all. Still equally dim lights.

Ah ha! The battery must be bad!

Take it back to autozone. Alas, their warranty is only 90 days, I've just missed the window that closed end of January. (I really am not going to buy batteries at autozone anymore, I tell myself.)

But they say 'let us check it out, put it on a trickle charger of our own, test it.' So I do. Later that evening, they give it back, and say it is holding voltage at 13.4, and should be fully charged. Seems to be a good battery.

I pop it in the bike. No difference in symptoms. Now my first thought was that Autozone's systems can make mistakes. So I go to get a charged car battery, get some jumper cables, and connect it.

Same symptom.

So something is wrong with the bike's electrical, and I've been barking up the wrong tree all along.

The 'lock handlebars right and lights shut off and/or the bike dies and/or the fuel+oil lights come on like when you press the starter button' weirdness has continued to exist since the last thread, and for the life of me I have not been able to trace it, by the way--though, currently, with dim lights, I get no effect from locking the handlebars right. (It always was a little bit intermittent of an issue.)

Anyone have any idea of where to start? I finally got a trailer and brought it home to work on. Don't know where to start.

[Steve_in_Florida]

Kyle,
I would "start" by checking the two (2) grounding points.

Begin by removing the one attached to the negative post of the battery, and checking it for continuity and resistance. Clean any crud from where it connects, and reattach.

Check the second one that's attached to the frame, up near the coils. (You might have to remove some stuff to get to this one.)

That's how I'd begin.

Steve

[Pat Conlon]

The 'lock handlebars right and lights shut off and/or the bike dies and/or the fuel+oil lights come on like when you press the starter button' weirdness has continued to exist since the last thread, and for the life of me I have not been able to trace it, by the way--though, currently, with dim lights, I get no effect from locking the handlebars right. (It always was a little bit intermittent of an issue.)

Anyone have any idea of where to start?

Yea, start there^^ You've had this problem before and you did not fix it, and it's not going to fix itself.
There are wires which move when you turn your handle bars back and forth, start there. Pay attention to the 2 wires that go down to your horn. One of them could be grounding out draining your battery. It just takes a small abrasion on the wire's insulation rubbing on the steering neck to be a problem.
You have to be methodical and through. Point A to point B. Any wires that move with your handle bars are suspect. You have buggered your start button so before you buy another switch assembly, wire in a remote start button and use that to start your bike. That way you can rule out any shenanigans caused by your faulty start switch.

[rktmanfj]

If you didn't fix the dead short you reported having the from the 'first' electrical problem you had, then it's still the same problem.

Go back to that thread and take the good advice you were given there.   

[andyb]

Use all the voodoo and guesswork you like, it's no replacement for assessing what you've got.  Measure things, inspect things, and so on.  Most problems are relatively easy to suss if you've got the chops to tell what's happening.  Finding a problem doesn't mean that you've found the problem either, frequently there are several.

[fintip]

Life has been hectic.

Far from ignoring advice, I just didn't know what angle to attack.

After these posts, I went ahead and made a list summing up all the responses from here and the other thread, and from reading here and the manual:

----
-Check main grounds
--Resistance of battery cable
--ground near coils on frame
-Check horn wire insulation?
-"Turn handlebars right, see which wires are bundling/tightening/coming against the frame."
-Starter button wires should be suspect
-Regulator is suspect because of bulbs (except that ground cable was likely cause in my case)
-Relay unit--wiring connecting to it was effie's problem
-Fuse box wires/mount (another person's issue)
-Ignition switch (same as last)
----

So, two things. First, my battery is, after all, truly dead (now showing one volt, after being very misleading and tricky multiple times on multiple chargers).

So I got a new battery. This time one from Batteries plus, $105 after tax, AGM (sealed), and with a TWO YEAR WARRANTY. Not a crappy 90 day warranty like the one that just died from Autozone, which I purchased last November.

Second, I caught it overcharging at 18 volts, so it seems the regulator/rectifier is shot, which is probably what killed the battery.

Looking to buy a new one, and it's unclear what I am supposed to buy... Any advice on getting one? I see regulators and rectifiers being sold separately, which is strange, because I always thought they were bundled up as a single unit. More confusing, the halves each don't cost much less than a single unit.

I saw one listed (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ricks-Motorsports-Regulator-Fits-Yamaha-FJ1200-1988-1992-/330900706919?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d0b381667&vxp=mtr) for an 88 and later FJ--is there a difference between years on this one? (Also, prices... This single unit is $67, but I've seen rectifiers alone listed for $86? Confusing....)

Still suspicious of perhaps a ground wire in the handlebar starter switch unit? Is there a ground on the handlebars?

Thanks,
Kyle

[yamaha fj rider]

Regulator and rectifier separate on most Japanese bikes best I can recall.

Kurt   

[Harvy]

Second, I caught it overcharging at 18 volts, so it seems the regulator/rectifier is shot, which is probably what killed the battery.


Thanks,
Kyle

Kyle....... Randy sells 'em......
http://www.rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=Electrical%3ARegulator

There is a link to installation video too!

Cheers
Harvy

[fintip]

Sent a message to Randy, though it says he's out of stock.

[Harvy]

Sent a message to Randy, though it says he's out of stock.

So it does Kyle.....and Race-Tec Electrics website says it is not available as well......sorry for the bum-steer mate.

Harvy

[Harvy]

These guys have it in stock:

http://www.electrosport.com/street-bikes/yamaha/fj1200-86-93/nippon-denso-internal-regulator.html

Harvy

[racerrad8]

Yep, I am out of stock and so is Evan from Race-Tech electronics.

He is trying to source some components to make a few up to get the people who have requested them via the website on the road. I have 6 people who requested notification on the website and Kyle makes 7...

I sent Evan and email on Monday as a follow-up regarding the progress but I have not heard back from him.

Kyle, if you click the "notify when back in stock" tab you will get an email from me when I do get them.

Also you need to check the red alternator plug and make sure it is not burned. if the regulator is not seeing the actual voltage it will overcharge.

Randy - RPM

[fintip]

Wow, that place has it as more than twice Randy's place.

How bad would it be to use the new battery and leave the dysfunctional regulator in place temporarily?

I'll be sure to check the red alternator plug. Thanks for the tip.

Thanks Randy, you're a great guy.

[Pat Conlon]

How bad would it be to use the new battery and leave the dysfunctional regulator in place temporarily?

How much do you like to spend $105 for a new AGM? Sealed AGM's do not like overcharging.
At least with a conventional lead acid you just boil the electrolyte, then you just add more...
...but, not so with AGM's

[SlowOldGuy]

That red connector is under the left sidecover.  Should have a red wire (battery voltage) and a brown wire (which I think is the alternator charging output back to the battery but I can't locate my wiring diagram to confirm).

This connector was partially melted on my "well cared for" '85. 

DavidR.