'92 140,000Km rebuild.

[tmkaos]

Hi all,

A few of you have read and commented on my posts about my poor FJ's smoking and miss issues - thnks for that, guys. Read it here  http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=7756.msg70410#msg70410if you're so inclined it gives the background anyway.

I'm going to pull the motor down as she's done 140,000 kilometers, the last 30,000 of them with me, and I haven't given the old girl an easy time. Apart from the ring/or valve issues I currently have I feel over the last 21 years a few of the factory horses have escaped from the engine. There's a list of maintainenece items due as well so I figured I'll do them all at once.

Motor looks like shit - re paint it.
Service the motor mounts and add in grease nipples for the future.
Wheels bearings haven't been done since I bought her.
Tidy up some wiring and do the horn and headlight relays -just done the coil relays in an effort to sort the miss.
New battery.
Rear caliper seems to only be actuating 1 piston despite several bleeds.
My exhaust - a 4-1 of unknown origin - is rusty as shit so I will try to clean it up and paint it too.

I've put together a list of items I reckon I'm going to need to buy from RPM which so far is:

1 1200 Cylinder Head Gasket
1 Spin On Oil Filter Adapter
4 Exhaust Gasket
16 Valve Stem Seal
16 Valve Guides - need to check head  to see if I need oversize or not.
4 Yamaha Wrist Pin Cir-Clip
8 FJ Valve Cover Bolt Grommet
1 Brake Caliper Kit (1)  - Rear, it looks like only 1 piston is actuating
1 Four (4) Brush Starter Rebuild Kit
1 Engine Case Gasket Kit
1 Front Wheel Bearing & Seal Kit 84+
1 Nippon Denso Internal Regulator - battery hasn't been charging well recently
1 Performance Valve Spring Set
1 Rear Wheel Bearing & Seal Kit 91-01
Engine bearings too I guess - need to get a size off the journals

So far locally I have got a valve shim kit, and I'll be sourcing a battery too. I was lucky enough to get the CAD files from our friendly FJMonkey for the fork brace so I'm going to try and make one of those up too.

So I have a few questions for those of you with the time to help out, and the knowledge.

1. With these Km's, will I need to replace cam chain and tensioners too? How about the starter chain?

2. Do I need to order case o rings and dowels or are these usually salvagable when you split the cases - and how many of each? I believe it's 6 dowels, is it 6 o rings too?

3. Is the '92 the 4 brush starter or the 2 brush starter?

4. I'll be getting the valves re-lapped and replacing the springs while the head is off. I have access to a full machine shop, I'm a toolmaker by trade -is there any easy work I can do port-wise to cram some extra horses back inside the engine?

5. I'm adding in an oil pressure guage to compliment my oil temp -what's the pressure range I should see from idle to say 4000 rpm? Anything over those revs and I'm not going to be looking at instruments!

6. What have I missed that's obvious?  

The transmission and clutch seem fine - no slipping and no shift issues apart from it liking to be blipped on the downshift in the lower gears to avoid a hard clunk when the lower gear is engaged - propbably an oil and km's issue   I'll be going to the closest I can find to the Shell Rotella diesel oil.

Anyway, I'll try to take some pics as I take her apart, and keep you all informed as to how I go.

Happy riding,

James

[FJSpringy]

1. With these Km's, will I need to replace cam chain and tensioners too? How about the starter chain?

Hi James,

I rebuilt my motor (also a 92) from the ground up at 105k and it was in surprisingly good condition, but I did replace the chains even though the were serviceable under the theory that if I was in there why not.

Nothing worse that sitting in the shed wishing you had done it when you had the chance, I learn't that lesson with a VF400fd I rebuilt in a hurry

Regards,
Dave

[fj11.5]

Starter should be four brush unit , unless po changed it to an early one

[tmkaos]

Starter should be four brush unit , unless po changed it to an early one

Cheers just wasn't 100% sure on that. 

Hi James,

I rebuilt my motor (also a 92) from the ground up at 105k and it was in surprisingly good condition, but I did replace the chains even though the were serviceable under the theory that if I was in there why not.

Nothing worse that sitting in the shed wishing you had done it when you had the chance, I learn't that lesson with a VF400fd I rebuilt in a hurry

Regards,
Dave

cheers Dave,I'm usually a do-it-once-do-it-right kind of guy but the more I add to the list from RPM the more the bank cringes.. and those parts are amongst the more expensive bits. We actually manufacture cam chain tensioner guides at work for the late 70's early 80's Honda CB750/1000's for racing use so I can get the material no problems to make my own guides to keep the cost down but it's the time involved to reverse engineer a set to remake them that is the issue.. 

[RichBaker]

Hi all,



The transmission and clutch seem fine - no slipping and no shift issues apart from it liking to be blipped on the downshift in the lower gears to avoid a hard clunk when the lower gear is engaged - propbably an oil and km's issue   I'll be going to the closest I can find to the Shell Rotella diesel oil.

Anyway, I'll try to take some pics as I take her apart, and keep you all informed as to how I go.

Happy riding,

James

This is normal, for any motorcycle I've ever ridden....

[ribbert]

The transmission and clutch seem fine - no slipping and no shift issues apart from it liking to be blipped on the downshift in the lower gears to avoid a hard clunk when the lower gear is engaged - propbably an oil and km's issue   I'll be going to the closest I can find to the Shell Rotella diesel oil.

.

All bikes require blipping for smooth down changes, to any gear.

Noel

[tmkaos]

So I haven't been able to start on pulling the bike down yet - man, babies take up some time! Our little girl was 1 month old yesterday, bless her.. But in the mean time I've been figuring out what parts I'm likely to need. RPM has everything I'll need but the major issue is when it comes into the country I have to pay GST (Goods and Services Tax 15%) on it. Factor the exchange rate into it and it ramps up the cost a bit.
So far Randy can do me all the bits I'll want for US$650 including shipping. Covert that at about NZ$.081 to the greenback gets us NZ$801.97 plus the $197 duty I will have to pay according to NZ Customs gives me a total of NZ$998.97.

The local (st)dealers best effort for the same (factory) parts list comes to NZ$959.08. Here's their price list
PARTS YNZ 1WORK DAY
PARTS YAUS 3-4 WK DAYS
PARTS JAPAN 7 WORK DAYS.
SO 7 DAYS AT THE MOST
FOR WORK SHOP RATE CONTACT NICK 09 360-7710


GASKET,HEAD                    1             116.86
GASKET, EXHAUST PIPE      4               6.80EH
SEAL, VALVE STEM           16              7.80EH
CIRCLIP                            1              2.90EH
RUBBER GROMET                1              5.20EH
CALIPER SEAL KIT              1              48.18
BRUSH SET                       1             116.00
VALVE SPRING OUTER         1              19.90EH
VAVLE SPRING INNER          1              13.90EH
GASKET ENGINE RUBBER      1              38.70
GASKET ENGINE CASE         1              16.60
GASKET C/CASE                1              28.78
GASKET OIL STRAINER        1              51.43
GASKET TENSIONER           1               2.93
FT WHEEL BEARING KIT      1              25.00
REAR BEARING KIT             1              39.00


The interesting part is Randy's prices are cheaper across the board but it's the shipping international and tax at this end that kills it..

However since I really don't trust anybody ordering parts for my bike that wasn't even born when it rolled off the production line I think I'll end up going with RPM - spoke to parts guy at a yamaha agent this morning and he wasn't confidence inspiring - he needed the chassis designation and wanted me to give HIM the part numbers of the bits I needed, and sounded about 16. Seriously.

Bought the 1st item anyway, a Katana YTX12-BS battery. NZ$119. It's had a Yuasa YTX12-BS in it for the last 5 years and as I was impressed with it's longevity I wanted another.. The Yuasa was $190, and the Yuasa guy said Katana is built in the same factory. We pulled them both out of the boxes and had a look, be damned if I could tell the difference but unfortunately the sales guy didn't turn his back long enough fopr me to swap them. Oh well. 

Anyway, hopefully i'll get an hour or so tonight to start dismantling...

James

[racerrad8]

RPM has everything I'll need but the major issue is when it comes into the country I have to pay GST (Goods and Services Tax 15%) on it. Factor the exchange rate into it and it ramps up the cost a bit.

So far Randy can do me all the bits I'll want for US$650 including shipping. Covert that at about NZ$.081 to the greenback gets us NZ$801.97 plus the $197 duty I will have to pay according to NZ Customs gives me a total of NZ$998.97.


GASKET,HEAD                    1             116.86
GASKET, EXHAUST PIPE      4               6.80EH
SEAL, VALVE STEM           16              7.80EH
CIRCLIP                            1              2.90EH
RUBBER GROMET                1              5.20EH
CALIPER SEAL KIT              1              48.18
BRUSH SET                       1             116.00
VALVE SPRING OUTER         1              19.90EH
VAVLE SPRING INNER          1              13.90EH
GASKET ENGINE RUBBER      1              38.70
GASKET ENGINE CASE         1              16.60
GASKET C/CASE                1              28.78
GASKET OIL STRAINER        1              51.43
GASKET TENSIONER           1               2.93
FT WHEEL BEARING KIT      1              25.00
REAR BEARING KIT             1              39.00


The interesting part is Randy's prices are cheaper across the board but it's the shipping international and tax at this end that kills it..

However since I really don't trust anybody ordering parts for my bike that wasn't even born when it rolled off the production line I think I'll end up going with RPM - spoke to parts guy at a yamaha agent this morning and he wasn't confidence inspiring - he needed the chassis designation and wanted me to give HIM the part numbers of the bits I needed, and sounded about 16. Seriously.

James

James,

I just sent you a PM regarding destination country duty taxes. (hint, hint)

Sorry I missed this topic at the onset, but now that I have given it a quick read, lets get together via email.

I can make sure you get everything you need for the engine the first time after you give me the full run down of what you are doing. There are small things no one thinks about until the need them, like the oil pump snap ring.

You will not need valve guides, but you will need seals.

And for $116.00 for a starter brush kit, you might as well spend an extra $20.00 and buy the new starter.

Randy - RPM

[tmkaos]

[

Sorry I missed this topic at the onset, but now that I have given it a quick read, lets get together via email.



Randy - RPM

Email sent - cheers Randy!

[tmkaos]

Ok so last night I started on pulling her down..

This is a shot of the #3 header pipe, you can see oil drips on the cooling fins, and oil leaking out from under the flange on the header itself. This is after a couple of minutes of warm up.


Here's the area in general - I'm going to try and clean these headers up while they're off - the poor girl shows her km's..

Going to try to do a bit of a time lapse thing here.. we'll see how dedicated I can stay  

[FeralJuggernaut]

I think I am about 20 work hours ahead of you in a very similiar project mode...   I am down to the motor clean up part.  Slow going for me personally, a lot of elbow work.  I don't have easy access to a parts dip or sand blaster rig, hence the slowness.    My Mistress is at 112k miles.   I had the motor out at about 65k for some tranny work.   I didn't notice until last week that after getting through the first 2 layers of oil/road/muck/debris that you can actually see between the cylinders!   I am embarassed to admit that, but if it helps you or just one lurker, I'll feel redeemed!   In my partial defense, I picked up the bike just under 60k miles so it was clogged before me and I had never dug that deep in the cleaning routine.   This go around I am doing the top end and so I had just the barrels in hand and finally figured it out.        I found half the rings frozen and all of the oil scrappers frozen.   Lots of the 'baked oil' residues to clean up...   I've been using PB blaster, Simple Green and kerosene as cleaning solvents and a variety of scrubbing and scraping devices.  I'd recommend a bike lift if you have the means.   I had a coupon for the harbor freight lift at $288 dollars and wish I had done that a decade earlier!   When you are ready to drop the lump, put a 2x4 (or two) under your center stand unless you can rig a way to lift up the frame.  Your riding buddy for an afternoon would be a good idea too for extra hands, just sayin.   Let me encourage you to keep the pictures up and going.   Reason?  I started my disassembly about 2 years ago.  Yea, kids, life, whatever excuses inserted here, the picts may just help you on the rebuild later.  IJKOK   Stay organized and make sure you have storage place setup before pulling bits off too far.   Zip lock baggies and a sharpie have saved my ride and sanity.   Keep up the good fight!   We're cheering for you, you can do it!   Send more picts!   

[tmkaos]

Cheers, Mr Juggernaut  

Encouragement is all good.   My motivation for getting this done reasonably speedily is the bike is my primary transport. I can ride a push-bike to work if the weather is fair but aside from that, the wife and baby have our stationwagon as their car and I have the bike. I have been loaned a Smart Car to get me around for a while, but honestly, I lose credits from my Man-Card every time I jump in it. I'm 6"2' and about 240lbs and I fill that car up. Although I have to say in it's defense, once the baby turbo spools up, it's the little car that could.  

I'm planning on using a block and tackle from a roof joist in the garage to get the bike up higher when I drop out the motor, with the rear wheel removed, should allow it to pivot on the centre stand enough and stay stable. We'll figure it out when the time comes. Neccessity is the mother of invention, after all.  

This weekend should allow me to make some more progress - I want to try to drop the motor with it as complete as possible, I'm going to use the steam cleaner at work to give it a blast, it has 140,000km worth of crap caked on the block. After I've done that I'll strip it on the bench and carry on cleaning while I work out what needs doing to it.

Trying to stay away from splitting the cases if possible.

Luckily I'm an engineer so I have access to a full CNC workshop.. Think I might need it.   poor old girl.

[tmkaos]

So the weather was shit here today and I managed to fit in a couple of hours..

Here is my phat ride at the moment.. Oh the shame of it...


Pulled off the lower cowl and exhaust. That lower cowl is held together by a wish and a prayer. I glued and screwed ali plates all over the inside of it to keep the ears on and drilled all the cracks to stop them spreading about 5,000km's ago..


Here's my 2 exhaust options.. Super-loud Kerker type (I think it's a cheap chinese rip-off, was on the bike when I bought it.) and my quiet cruising exhaust, from 2001 CB1300. Easy install for anyone interested, mount lines up with rear footpeg perfectly.


These are the rusty headers, don't know who made them. Any clues? I'll try to either sand them and paint or maybe sandblast them then paint.. they're pretty far gone.Llook at all the oil on them from the external leak and another teaspoon dripped out of the inside too. Yuck. 



Carbs are out.. Please excuse my bad habit of leaving the spanner on top of the battery..  it is actually disconnected, not that that will matter if the spanner shorts it..


Rear caliper is off, needs a rebuild too while we're here, and the footpeg and bottom plate - what do you call that bit? - is off. beginning to see how the motor attaches to the frame now.


Have another crack at it tomorrow.

Enjoy your weekend!

James

[tmkaos]

Ok, so back in the garage this afternoon while baby and wifey were having a well deserved snooze.. No rest for us tinkerers, however..

So I pulled off the oil cooler, LH side peg and kick plate, oil filter housing, clutch slave and sprocket cover. Various other wiring hangups removed from my oil temp and pressure senders, carb heat shield taken out and all the wiring plugs on top of the gearbox undone..


But the old girl decided to kick me in the nuts on last time..  These 2 capscrews, either side are both frozen SOLID, and the heads have rounded off, the Aluminium Yamaha used for these must been made from recycled slag.


I've sprayed some CRC onto them, try again tomorrow. If all else fails it's back to the Australian Spanner - otherwise known as an angle grinder. Take the heads off and deal with them that way. Not elegant, but effective.

Tomorrow I'm taking various sundry parts I've removed into work to run through our parts cleaner. The sprocket cover was horrendous inside.. it was also missing a bolt, on the lower side at the back. Must have vibrated out.

Everywhere I look on this bike I see ali parts screaming for some polish and a bit of TLC.. Gotta resist the temptation otherwise I'll just add another 20 or 30 hours onto this job..

[FJSpringy]

mate I had the same issue, cut a slot in the head, heat, an impact driver and lots of