FJ1346 from ashes to... Well, we'll see...

[skymasteres]

More progress is being made on this thing. Final assembly on the engine is imminent. I keep getting unnerved
by the little things that I don't want to screw up. Things like messing up which way the rod that the shift
forks ride on goes into the case. (The end with the hole parallel to the rod goes in first) Or trying not to forget
a seal or a little o-ring. I specially don't want to bond the case halves together and find out that I have to
bust it open again to put something in there that I missed. Part of the problem for me is it just seems so dang
simple. I mean, there's not a whole lot in there that is completely inaccessible with the case halves together.

You have the following (I think):

Transmission (Including seals, clips and o-ring)
Shift drum (Can't install it after the gears are in)
Starter gear/Clutch/Damper/Sproket
Starter chain/Chain damper
O-ring (Between the case halves)
Crank/Bearings/Rods (Crank seal and plug)

What am I missing?

In the mean time I'll give you an update. Here are the big parts ready to go.



But before I get to the assembly, let me tell you a little story about a lot of work for nothing...
You all remember this picture?



It is the XJR1300 starter clutch gear weighing in at a whopping 396.7g. This is 28.3g heavier than the
368.4g gear it is replacing. Upon inspection you can see that the gear tooth surface it much wider than
the part that can actually be driven by the starter gear itself. So... I took it upon myself to "fix" this.
Initially I was going to use my buddy's lathe, but the belt snapped while I was cleaning it up. Then I
figured I would chuck it in my drill press and use my vice with a feed to hold a cutting tool and remove
the material that way.

Off to the local magic shop (i.e. the hardware store) to get the parts needed to turn a drill press into a
low precision lathe... Which turned out to be a flanged bushing, and a steel spacer, a 7/16" bolt, some
washers, and a keyway. It ended up looking like this.



After I ground the keyway down to make a cutter (I know, I was looking for tool steel but they didn't have it)
I bolted the vice to the table and set everything up. Turns out that gear is made of a lot harder metal than I
gave it credit for.  It kind of wore the cutter rather than the cutter actually cutting the gear...



So, if at first you don't succeed... Try a harder metal. Here is a piece from a tap, that I had laying
around, that had been modified for the task. (And the rather beat key)



And I still was met with failure. Undeterred I moved on to the "there must be a procedural problem" stage.
It wasn't working because I was using the wrong method. (Really I just didn't have a proper cutting tool.
But I may not have had enough clamping force on the gear via the bushings, bolt, and washers anyway)
Behold, the mighty harbor freight dremal tool. No clamped in place of the cutter and adjusted for position
it is working hard removing the material on the side of the gear...

Of course until the extra course sanding disk explodes and you have a dremal just spinning making noise.



Now what to do? Well, the procedure was working. Obviously it was a lack of robustness on the tool side
of things. Time to go bigger... How about a 13 amp DeWalt angle grinder with a grinding wheel on it?
(On a side note, my brother says the wall behind my drill press looks like I slaughtered the tin man.
I don't know why but I found the commend uproariously funny.)



Success! Sort of. I mean, while it was doing a fine job of removing the material, it was getting kind of warm and
I was spraying it with water from a spray bottle. (Kind of hot when you see little puffs of steam coming off the gear)



Not to be deterred, I went back to my original method of material removal. Well sort of. I put a 60grit sanding
wheel on the grinder. Yehaw, now we're cooking with gas. That thing worked much better for thinning that
gear face down and it didn't get nearly as hot.



After all that, what did I end up with you ask? Well I now have a XJR1300 starter clutch gear that is almost
dimensionally identical to the FJ1200 gear it replaced.



Oh, and I shaved a whopping 46.4g off the gear. It actually came out slightly lighter than the original gear too.



Of course all of this was a complete and utter waste of two hours, but it's funny when you get an idea in your
head that something needs to be "fixed" and the process becomes more engaging than the problem...

[skymasteres]

Oh, and just as a comparison, here is a shot of my cranshaft.



Before the coatings



And a borrowed image

[Pat Conlon]

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish HARTLESS, other than emphasise your comment.
But I will get to the bottom of that issure. (And yes, the $10 is a drop in the bucket on this one)

Don't mind him Mike, you are doing a fine job. You're a big boy, you know what to do and with as much knowledge you have, your ego  does not get in the way of asking really really good questions.
Thank you for all the time you have spent taking pictures and documenting your build.
From your visuals and descriptions, I learn something every time you post.
I really appreciate it, as I am sure many of us on this forum also do...

Thanks again, keep it up!  Pat

[edit] Remind me, why did you decide to go with the XJR starter gear..and not the oem FJ gear?
     How much weight did you shave off the crank when you knife edged ?   

[HARTLESS]

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to accomplish HARTLESS, other than emphasise your comment.
But I will get to the bottom of that issure. (And yes, the $10 is a drop in the bucket on this one)

oops, I didn't mean to repost that. I was posting at work from my phone and I went back in my browser... must have accidentally reposted... like he said don't mind me, you really are doing a great job. this has been one of the most interesting threads on here for me

[skymasteres]

[edit] Remind me, why did you decide to go with the XJR starter gear..and not the oem FJ gear?
     How much weight did you shave off the crank when you knife edged ?   

The XJR gear decision was kind of forced upon me when I went with the XJR starter clutch.
The FJ clutch uses three rollers while the XJR uses a full roller sprag. I figured with the higher
displacement and compression it would be good to have more grip.

Here is a comparison of the two started clutches.



The difference that you don't see on the page is that the FJ gear has a clutch bearing surface
that is 1.858" in diameter, while the XJR's is 1.80". Just enough to make the FJ part too big for
the XJR sprag.

The side benefit of going with the XJR part is that it is lighter (by a whole 9.3oz) and is smaller
in diameter. The weight and diameter reduction are significant as the whole assembly is
constantly rotating at engine speed. So weight/inertia reductions here have a direct impact on
how quickly the engine revs. (Go to page 8 for the full comparison)

You know, I don't think I ever actually weighed the crank. The guys at APE told me that they took
a couple pounds off. Dang it, now I'm going to have to weigh it. This sucks too because I just got
the connecting rods attached last night...

Does anyone know what the weight of an unmolested crankshaft is?

[crzyjarmans]

WOW!, Lot of work going into your FJ, I have the tools and the ability to do this, But not sure I want to, Not much experience with motorcycle mechanic's but enough on cars, Im pretty sure I could figure it out, Was thinking of removing engine/trans for an over haul next winter, but that's about it, Thanks for posting all the pics of your re-build

[Pat Conlon]

..... Dang it, now I'm going to have to weigh it. This sucks too because I just got
the connecting rods attached last night...

No Mike, don't do that, I was just curious....

[skymasteres]

Since the upper case is the trust and there is no "adjustment" there is not a Yamaha specification. It truly is based on the condition of the upper case thrust surfaces.

It has been so long since I checked one I cannot recall the measurement I took.

Randy - RPM

Okay so I went in with a set of feeler gauges to see what the truth of the thrust bearing surfaces on the FJ crankshaft are.

Here is what I found:
On the skirted bearing: LH Clearance 0.013"   RH Clearance 0.016"
On the Crank/Web:      LH Clearance <0.002" RH Clearance 0.003"

The crank is basically pressed against the left side of the web. I don't have a feeler thinner than 0.002"
so I can't say what it is exactly. But, even if I take it as 0.002" and subtract it from the 0.016" I have
available, I still have a clearance of 0.014" before contact can be made. Conversely, if it shifts the other
way it's 0.013" – 0.003" = 0.010" of clearance. Or twice the total play that the crank has available.

But... Since I am now going to pull the crank anyway to weigh it. I'll take that bearing out and remove
some extra material from the skirt. Just so that if the unthinkable happens and my upper crankcase web
gets trashed, allowing the crank to dance wildly back and forth, it'll have plenty of room to move before
hitting the upper bearing skirt and possibly causing the bearing to spin. (of course I think it that
happens other things will be out of whack before the bearing gets touched. I could be wrong though.)

WOW!, Lot of work going into your FJ, I have the tools and the ability to do this, But not sure I want to, Not much experience with motorcycle mechanic's but enough on cars, Im pretty sure I could figure it out, Was thinking of removing engine/trans for an over haul next winter, but that's about it, Thanks for posting all the pics of your re-build

You know, it's funny because that's exactly where I was before I started this project. Hence many of the
"stupid" questions that I ask...

[skymasteres]

..... Dang it, now I'm going to have to weigh it. This sucks too because I just got
the connecting rods attached last night...

No Mike, don't do that, I was just curious....

Lol, it's not really that big a deal Pat. I was being a little dramatic. I keep thinking I am going to seal this thing up but I keep
stopping and reviewing the shop manual to make sure that I haven't forgotten anything. I just keep getting stuck on the fact
that there doesn't seem to be a lot of stiff that can't be put in after the two halves are joined.

It's just that now that the question has been asked, it needs to be answered. Especially since I have been so detailed with
what everything else weighs... Besides, I can use it as an excuse to go back in and "modify" that odd bearing a little...
Clean the bearing seats with acetone, make sure everything is aligned, etc. (Now I'm really paranoid about spinning bearings)

The progress I made last night was getting the rods put on, all of the bolts cleaned in the hot tank, and putting the two halves
together. (Now that I have assembly lube on stuff the engine "sleeps" in a black plastic garbage bag to keep crap from finding
its way into the lube.)

I plan on using the handy table in the shop manual to sort the bolts by position and size tonight and get this thing bolted
together... (Final pic request if you have any. Because, unless I screw it up, I ain't opening it again after it's sealed.) Oh, and I
like the fact that it shows which bolts have washers and all. Oh, and I found those clamps I was looking for.
(They were in with the baggies of engine bolts.)

[skymasteres]

I'm telling you, the devil has been in the details with this thing. Between the enormous time sink it is when
you're sweating questions brought up by ignorance or lack of experience, and "good" ideas that you think
will transfer over from other disciplines, this project has been a doosey. Especially when you sit there staring
at diagrams and the little voice in your head is there raging "It can't be THAT simple! There have to be more
pieces in there, you must be missing something!" Plus there have been many instances where I have spent
money on "irrational fear" just for peace of mind.  And other times that I have had to talk myself into it
because of the "I have already gone this far, I might as well..." argument.

All in all so far it has been a great learning experience. And it's not over yet.
Speaking of details. While I was franticly looking though the shop manual trying to identify all of the little seals
and o-rings that needed to be replaced, it dawned on me that I had the plastic "damper" pieces in the starter
clutch. These bits were basically hard plastic and the tab that holds the pairs together was broken on all four
of them. I ordered a set when I got the other o-rings. Boy am I glad I did. These new pieces are really soft
(in comparison) rubber. It's pliable like you would expect a damper to be. Now, did I really need to spend $30
on these parts? Could I have used the old basically plastic parts? Sure I could have. But this is one of the few
times where there is a night and day difference between the old and new.



Moving on. Then it's the starter shaft seal which the shop manual says to replace when doing a rebuild.
This was accomplished by using a socket to tap out the old seal, clean the housing up, and tap the new seal in.



Then there are little things like the oil squirter that lubricates the starter chain and sprockets. It took a minute
of looking at that hole under the bearing retention plate and referencing the shop manual to realize that that's
what went there. Then several minutes looking through baggies to find the dang thing.



Then there's the stupid stuff like replacing the starter chain damper. Well, I replaced the starter and cam chains,
but I figured it was due at 120K miles. Here are the new and old dampers together for comparison. You can see
how worn the surface is and how cracked the material is on the old one.



With all of the what to do about the starter gear, here it is installed and lined up. I probably could have gone
with removing a little less, but I can't go back now. I'm sure it'll be fine.



The connecting rods have all been balanced so that the big and small ends weigh the same, and each rod is within
0.1g of each other.  I was kind of dreading re-weighing them as I did the balancing before I did the coating.
(I didn't know if it was going to throw it off at all.)



I'm telling you, with all the heating I did to these things doing the coatings, the nuts were a pain to get off.



The book says the XJR rods are supposed to weigh 361g. Mine come in at 370.1 +/- about 0.5g.
(maybe they weigh them without the bolts?)



One of the biggest factors for deciding if something gets replaced and or modified is the "How much ass pain
is there in going back in to take care of it when I should have done it in the first place." factor. For things like
the clutch, I plan to put it back together as is. I can go in a replace it without too much trouble. Things like
the shift drum, which require complete engine disassembly to get to are heavily scrutinized before assembly.

[skymasteres]

Okay, big surprise, I didn't get the engine case halves sealed together last night. I ended up hauling the crank
back out of the motor, stripping the rods off of it, and weighing the thing. Just because I'll probably never take
the crank out of it again, and I really want to know what the weight difference really is between the stock and
my crankshaft. (Really could have been avoided if I'd weighed the thing before I sent it to the shop, but oh well)

On a side note, is kind of cool how the whole crank balances perfectly when held up by the cam chain.



So, just because I am sooooo paranoid about that whole tap a bearing and spin the sucker thing, I decided to
remove the skirt from the bearing. This basically entailed about 20 minutes of quality time with a belt sander and
a Tupperware container filled with water. Normally I don't hold metal bare handed when grinding or sanding on it,
but I made an exception in this case because I didn't want to overheat the bearing. Once it started to get hot,
I would put it in the water.

Kept repeating that till I had this:



And of course now it fits perfectly in the web with "unlimited" clearance.
(The crank hits the side of the web before it touches the bearing...)



And since I had the crank out for weighing I got to clean all the bearing seats with acetone and make sure everything
is situated just right. Now, since I have the crank out anyway, let's find out how much it weighs. According to my
digital bathroom scale, with a precision of 0.2#'s, the weight of my lightened crank is 23.2#'s. This number would mean
more if I knew what the thing weighed in the first place, but it'll have to do for now...



The funny thing is, with all of this going back and forth, I am getting pretty good at putting this much of it back together.
Here are the rods back on the crank ready to be popped into the case.



The trick it seems, with respect to the starter chain, it to put it over the clutch sprocket, drop the assembly in place,
and gently tap the bearing shaft that it rides on in place. You can't drive the shaft in all the way. (Or at least I can't)
and the last about an 1/8" of movement is accomplished by the seal cap. (Oh, and don't forget to remove the little oil
squirter before attempting to remove the starter clutch assembly. It snags on the chain and makes it impossible to remove...)



Here is my solution to the frustrating problem of what bolt goes where. Although on a side note I have absolutely no idea
where Yamaha is getting their measurements for bolt lengths. Seems like they are consistently 6-9mm off. They don't
even match up if you just look at the length of the shaft as opposed to the overall length.




On the bright side, I did discover that I am only missing three bolts. The problem is I have to put the sucker together to
figure out which three they are. Well, I'm pretty sure one of them is the center bolt "with a 10 stamped on the head"
and the other two are 40mm and 50mm long 6mm flange bolts. But who's to know when you can't make a positive ID
since the bolts used don't match the manual...

Here is what it looks like all ready to be sealed up. With luck I'll actually get to it tonight.

[SlowOldGuy]

Outstanding effort!

You seem a little OCD-ish so I hesitate to post this.  But what if the "thrust" surfaces on that bearing were really intended to hold the bearing itself in place.  Obviously from your measurements the crank (under normal circumstances) would have never contacted the sides of this bearing.

Could they have been simple ears or flanges to make sure the bearing itself stayed in place?  Is the bearing retained by a small tab like Chevy main and rod bearings?

I certainly don't know since I've never been this far into an FJ motor. 

Keep at it.  Really nice to see your progress.  That motor is going to be sweet when you finish!

DavidR.

[andyoutandabout]

I to am hooked on this build. Mr Yamaha would be proud of this gorgeously documented investigation into his wondrous works.
If I ever need surgery I'm calling you, as it appears you do a pretty thorough job.

Although I have no real clue as to what you are doing, your diligence would lead me to expect a 300Hp, 200mph,100mpg engine resultant.

We patiently await your test ride.
Andy

[skymasteres]

Outstanding effort!

You seem a little OCD-ish so I hesitate to post this.  But what if the "thrust" surfaces on that bearing were really intended to hold the bearing itself in place.  Obviously from your measurements the crank (under normal circumstances) would have never contacted the sides of this bearing.

Could they have been simple ears or flanges to make sure the bearing itself stayed in place?  Is the bearing retained by a small tab like Chevy main and rod bearings?

Well, you would be right if they were supported by the web itself. But as Randy pointed out,
if the crank were to hit the skirt, it would breal the little locator tab that keeps the bearing in
place. All I have done is basically turn it back into a standard bearing.

[skymasteres]

Help! Yeah, that's what this is, a cry for help...

Bad luck, lack of skill, perhaps being too ham fisted. Whatever the problem is I am more than frustrated
at the moment. I was making great progress getting this thing put together and bolt #26 shears in the case...



I was threading it in and it suddenly go sort of "sticky" so I started backing it out to take a look and it
twisted off in the case. Words cannot describe the feeling. This is particularly upsetting since I chased
all of the threads with a tap before I started AND used a micro-pipet attached to my shop vac to remove
any dust and junk from the thread pockets.

I am thinking that I need to get a LH 5mm drill bit and try and drill the thing out. I REALLY don't want to
open this thing back up again, and clean off all the sealant I put on...

Any thoughts?

On another note, since I'm proclaiming to all the internet that I'm still a dumbass, does anyone know how
to interpret this reading? I've never used a dial indicator like this before and am not sure how to translate
this into a useful number. I set the thing up with the piston level with the lip of the cylinder, indicator
zeroed, and then rotated the crank till I got the max reading...