Yearly Safety Anouncement

[Dan Filetti]

For those that did not see the other thread, or follow the thread links, I thought it would be a good idea to yet again, post and account of my ill-fated FJ experience with the hopes that others will not suffer the same fate.  (sorry for the redundancy).

CTRL-C/ CTRL-V from an earlier thread:

My FJ died an untimely death, due to a poorly designed "L" fitting/ outlet in the fuel line coming off of the petcock.  The fitting worked its way loose while I was riding and the bike continued to run on the fuel in the float bowls.  The still-attached vacuum line kept the petcock happily open and pumping the gas onto the hot motor.  I came to a stop at a stop sign, began to accelerate away and the back tire slipped a bit.  -"Must be oil on the road" I thought -when in fact it was my own fuel I had just slipped on.  The bike stalled a hundred yards later, out of fuel, finally having exhausted the fuel in the float bowls.  A woman drove by me and asked if I needed help -I answered that I did not my house was .5 miles away and it was down hill.  (what I should have said was "I think I have a bent rod, can you help me straighten it out?" but I didn't) Smiley

As I looked down at the bike under me, blinking, as it had always been so very reliable, and I knew I had enough gas when I notice the smell of gas for the first time (and waaaaay too late).  An instant later, I and the bike were completely engulfed in an 8 foot fire ball, or so says the lady who had just passed me -who saw it in her rear view mirror.   She stopped and got out of her car expecting to find me dead.  In the meantime I abandoned ship, somehow, like a cat jumping straight back and landed on my feet behind the bike.  I watched in amazement and horror as my now-burning FJ fell over and crunched to the ground.  The woman called 911 and it took 15 minutes for the fire truck to arrive.

In that time the bike met it's maker -never to be run again.  When the tank burned through, flames shot high into the air (30' +/-)  In fact, the fire got hot enough to melt the aluminum clutch cover into the clutch housing (I saw this after they had gotten the fire out.)  There was nothing left besides metal, the bike was unrecognizable.  My beloved FJ was unceremoniously dragged onto a tow trailer and trucked off, never to be seen again.

I was given a little less than I had paid for the bike 5 years earlier by the insurance company...

I post this, as I sometimes do, to let everyone know that the early FJ's simply press-fit those rigid aluminum "L" / outlet fittings into the petcock.  They can, and do come loose.  Glue and Wrap a twist-tie around it to ensure they do not.

Doing this simple thing may well save you from suffering the fate I did, or worse.

Dan

[Dan Filetti]

Here are pictures of what mine looked like -although this is not actually mine, these are courtesy of CraigO, who's FJ met it's maker in a house fire, apparently...

Mine looked very similar.

A picture being worth a 1,000 words and all...

Dan

[fj11.5]

holy shit Dan, no wonder you now have a gixxer , , I jb welded mine in a few years back, simply because it spun in the fitting when installing the fuel line ,, dam good reason to sort them out as Dan shows

[Pat Conlon]

Thank you Dan.

[ribbert]

Looking at Dan's Yearly Safety Anouncement and the fact that petcock and gravity feed issues seem to be one of the most common problems plaguing the older bikes, why isn't upgrading to fuel pumps ever spoken of?  You could expect to replace a fuel pump maybe once in the life of the bike, and even then can ride home when it fails.

Noel

[fj11.5]

fairly easy upgrade, hardest part would be working out the relay cut off or just have a switch to prime the carbs, and turn it on once the bikes going, no drama fitting the smaller holed needle seats

[Arnie]

The fuel pump stops once there is some back-pressure in the line, so no relay necessary.
Priming is also not a problem as once you turn the key on, the pump cycles for a few seconds or until you have back-pressure.
You'd still have the petcock which can loosen and drop the "L" fitting. 
I don't know if the later model petcock will fit and replace the early petcocks that have this problem.

Arnie

[fj11.5]

thanks arnie, that's handy to know, I have a standard 1200 pump here, thought they needed to run through a relay set up for the cut off, , might just fit it and find out  ,, , depending on the tank , some pump models have the same mounting holes , as I have 4  different year tanks, two are the same, and can use either type of petcock ,

[Firehawk068]

Thanks for the safety reminder Dan..............

The fate of your FJ is sometimes brought up as a topic of discussion at the various rallies (it was, this year in Gunnison)
There are other petcock alteratives out there. (Randy sells a couple of them) and at the very least, should probably be epoxied in place, or safety-wired.

My FJ has the fuel-pump style (always on, or always off) non vacuum petcock, so this doesn't apply to mine, however this serves as a reminder to me to "Look over" the bike before riding........
Since my FJ has been such a reliable machine to me, I am very often guilty of just pushing it out of the garage, firing her up, putting my riding gear on, and just hopping on to head down the road..............Without so much as a glance at the fuel guage to see how much fuel is in it..........

As much as it pains you to descuss the demise of your FJ, you sharing with us helps to remind me to give a quick check of the machine I'm about to risk my safety by putting it under me to head down the highway..........

Thank You 

[fj11.5]

The fuel pump stops once there is some back-pressure in the line, so no relay necessary.
Priming is also not a problem as once you turn the key on, the pump cycles for a few seconds or until you have back-pressure.
You'd still have the petcock which can loosen and drop the "L" fitting. 
I don't know if the later model petcock will fit and replace the early petcocks that have this problem.

Arnie

,, hi arnie, unless I've tested it wrong , the pump keeps pumping even when its got back pressure ,

[miked]

 ,, hi arnie, unless I've tested it wrong , the pump keeps pumping even when its got back pressure ,
[/quote]

Hi Rod, It might be knackered mate, it should stop pumping and go silent once there is back pressure.

Cheers

Mike

[fj11.5]

no worries mate, could be Buggered, ill try it out on the 89 then ill no for sure as that one cuts off , , thought it was due to how they are wired in, but arnie say,s the pumps cut out under pressure so I'm hoping its ok

[craigo]

Here are pictures of what mine looked like -although this is not actually mine, these are courtesy of CraigO, who's FJ met it's maker in a house fire, apparently...

Mine looked very similar.




A picture being worth a 1,000 words and all...

Dan

Wow, been lurking here waiting for news of Randy's shock and I come across this.... My heart sinks seeing these pics.

I must say though that my bike didn't burn because of the petcock issue as Dan's. It just caught fire on a cool March evening all by itself. At least that's what the forensics report said. My theroy is that someone came into the garage, sprayed Ronson lighter fluid on her and put a match to it as our's was the 2nd fire of three in the neighborhood in as many weeks.

My wife discovered the bike in it's early stages of burning and called me. When I came into the garage, the flame was on top of the gas tank and was starting on fairing. The flame had that blue color with a bright yellow edge that is indicitive of some sort of accelerant. I grabbed the Kiddie fire extinguiser, (if you own one of these Kiddies, replace with a better unit, they are crap) pulled the pin, squeezed the valve and nothing. Buy then the fire had really taken hold of the gas tank and fairing and I told my wife to get out of here for fear it would explode. The tank did not explode but ruptured spilling it's gas and created a hugh fireball out of the front of the garage. The house was turned into a burned out shell within hours.

My bike did not burn due to a petcock issue, but, as Dan points out, it's better to check this out on your bike so it doesn't look like ours does.

Randy, when is the shock going to be available? Since the new tires got on the bike, it really shows just how bad the OEM is. More like a screen door plunger inside a spring.

CraigO
90FJ1200

[racerrad8]

All this talk about the petcock and the possibility of fire, I just want to make sure everyone is aware.

All three versions of the FJ petcock to the inventory at www.RPMracingCa.com quite some time ago, just search petcock and you will see all three versions, plus the aftermarket Pingle unit. The early, 84-85 version can be used on the 86-90 model bikes if you want to eliminate the electronic reserve function.

I also have on order the 84-90 gravity feed formed 10mm fuel hoses that should be here next week for those looking for them as well.

The two early version petcocks with the infamous "L" fitting that I offer for sale at RPM are safety wired with S/S wire to prevent corrosion of mild steel wire on the aluminum as well. This can also be done without any modification of grinding of the petcock housing.

The early gravity feed version tanks/petcocks will not interchange with the late model fuel pump version.

There has been talk of adding the fuel pump to the gravity feed bikes, and I have to ask the obvious question; WHY?

There are several thing that one must take into consideration if you are thinking of converting the gravity feed bike to a fuel pump supplied.

#1 - The CDI has a fuel pump timer for a prime circuit of the fuel pump. The fuel pump will run for 2-5 seconds and then it shuts off the electrical power if it does not see any ignition P/U coil signal. This timer works as well if the bike shuts down, losing ignition signal to not keep pumping fuel.

#2 - The fuel pump does act as a "check valve" or "petcock" to stop the flow of fuel to the carbs when shut off since the petcock is not an automatic petcock. But, there still is a small trickle that comes from the pump, but the flow is so slight the N&S can handle the pressure.

#3 - Pre 1989 dual gravity feed carbs will have an issue hooking up the fuel line as the difference in since is 10mm Vs. 6mm ID hose. The increased supply diameter as well as the dual feed will allow a pump, if it is on the high side of the pump range to lift the needles from the seats and cause flooding issues. We used to see this all the time with people trying to use the dual feed carbs on the race cars. Once you convert the carbs back to the small single inlet the problem is resolved.

#4 - The fuel pump only "truly" shuts off and stops pumping when the electrical supply is stopped. I have seen mentioned several times over the years that the pump shuts off when the pressure builds to the max pressure. In actuality the pump is a magnetic pulse style supply pump, thus the reason the click/rattle/pulse and you can hear them. What happens when the pressure builds to a high enough point, the plunger can no longer move a full stroke and pump more fuel past that set pressure point, and it becomes quiet. If you touch the pump at this point, you can still feel the plunger action working, but since the pressure has reached maximum, the plunger cannot stroke to supply more fuel, only maintain the pressure. Once the pressure drops and the pump can again begin to stroke, then you will hear it and it will supply more fuel. It is trying to pump more fuel, but until the pressure drops it cannot.

While many people have problems with the gravity feed system, it is usually operator error; running the fuel line routing incorrectly, adding fuel filters or a mechanical failure of the petcock itself. But, if everything is routed properly, no modification have been made to the system by adding fuel filters or other type(s) of fuel hose and the petcock is operating properly the system will function properly for years.

Maybe as part of this annual safety reminder, is the fact these petcocks are now sometimes 28 years old and should be replaced with a new one. There seems to be no issue recommending the replacement of the O.E. brake hoses to every new member that comes along, maybe the petcock should be added to the list as well. I mean, no issue spending money on braided brake hoses, so why not spend less than $200.00 bucks for a new petcock as a form of insurance against ever being the victim of a fire due to the petcock failure.

Finally, don't be fooled to think the late model petcock is not prone to failure. The have rubber o-rings and plastic components inside of them that fail as well due to time & heat. I have personally had two of them leak on customers bikes, and they leak the whole tank out every time...

Randy - RPM

[racerrad8]

Randy, when is the shock going to be available? Since the new tires got on the bike, it really shows just how bad the OEM is. More like a screen door plunger inside a spring.

CraigO
90FJ1200

CraigO,

I do not want to hijack this post, so here is the latest on the RPM Rear Shock

Randy - RPM