Prospect purchase

[fintip]

No, if pulling the carbs off were more direct, I'd clean them up in a heart beat. The problem is partially disassembling the bike on the side of the street in a neighborhood in very uptight Seattle. On the xj, pulling the carbs was actually pretty easy; I'm a little reluctant to remove some bolts from the frame and completely undo the air box all rushing to finish and in put it back together before it rains again. (Was rushing today to do everything since it was finally clear today. Just after I got it running it started drizzling again, and everything is soaked now again.)

Still, I brought my metal bristle brush with me, and if the float needles keeps being an huge problem, or the bike remains really difficult after a tank of gas or two, I may just break down and do it where ever I am and just sit tight and order float needles. Just trying to see if I can get away with it until I'm somewhere I can breathe.

Good to know about the choke and idle, maybe it isn't so odd after all. I have very little cold weather motorcycle experience, so I have a lot to learn about the choke--i almost never needed it on my xj.

I haven't had a chained bike in years, so I do need to remember to check it out. It definitely isn't lubed after sitting (in a garage, mind you) for a year, though the chain does only have about 10k miles on it. Need to do an oil change as well. The brakes were well maintained while the guy had it, looks like the brake lines were replaced at one point not long ago and I got pretty decent responsiveness out of the clutch and brakes, so I think I'll put flushing those off until I get back to Austin or maybe California.

Battery is new and was trickle charged before ever being used, so it's doing well, will be trickle charging it again tonight after its hard day of service today.

Also using hemostats on the fuel line just in case. Man this thing has a meaty fuel line! Huge! I need bigger hemostats!

And mixed in with almost a full tank of gas I put in most of a liter of marvel mystery oil. I have good luck with it in the past, and it certainly can't hurt. Never can be certain it works, but I figure after sitting for a year the bike could use all the help it can get.

What's the quick and dirty answer to the oil question? Just, what do most people use? 20/50 motorcycle dinosaur?

Also, I forgot to mention, after running the bike, I could clearly see the oil light come on when I would press the starter button (as it should) so I know that the starter button contact is good.

So help me out here; kickstand is possible, but I can visibly see that one and it looks fine, but I can still check it--but even if its bad, should that stop the bike from statting when it is in neutral? Same thing with the clutch safety switch. What other safety switches are there to check?

Or, more concisely: what is the troubleshooting procedure (how exactly with a test light are these switches checked) and order of operations (what do I test in what order) for my problem? Right after typing this up I'll be burying my nose in clymers and trying to go over this part of the schematic, but I'm sure you guys will give me better results faster than what I'll find. Pointing me to useful threads is much appreciated, happy to read.

And as for route, though, I have to stop in Portland to help a friend, and I really want to drive up to Canada for a day just to say I've been there. After Portland, I was planning on rushing via hwy 1 and then crossing over hwy 6 to get to about redding to see a friend that lives there. Then doing hwy 5 for a while and then making my way back to hwy 1 until about San Fran, and then cutting east (just like you recommend I not do, heh) to see death valley and Las Vegas.

Is my north route unreasonable? The coast, I.e. hwy 1, will be lower elevation and thus warmer, right?

Good to know that my southern route has an elevation problem, though, I'll rethink that. I would still like to make it to the grand canyon, though.

[Mark Olson]

congrats on the start.

as mentioned the normal procedure to start a 86 fj is as follows :

1-pull choke all the way out.
2-turn key to on position
3-pull clutch lever in
4-push start button and do not turn the throttle
5-engine will start and rpm's will reach up to 3500 after a few seconds.
6-push choke back in a little bit till rpm's decrease to 2000-2500
7-wait to ride until choke can be pushed all the way in and engine idles at 1200 rpm
8-aflter riding and you wish to re-start your fj , you will not need to pull the choke ,just push the start button with a little throttle.

If your fj will not do this procedure do not travel anywhere until it will.

now as to your starting problem , start at the relay and see if it is getting power when you push the button.
Use your troublelight and check power in -power out thru your switches that feed the relay .

Many have told you to remove the start button and clean the contacts and do the same with the run switch .
STOP SCREWING AROUND AND DO IT.
it is a maintenance issue anyway.

good luck.

[fintip]

Well. Found the kickstand switch and followed it up to its connector on the left side, disconnected it, and put a jumper wire between the two prongs on the engine side. Didn't help. Opened clymers and learned about the clutch switch. Disconnected the two cables from it and ran a jumper from those as well. Still just getting oil level lights when I hit the starter button.

What's next?

Anyways, just to make sure everything was still fine, I put the screwdriver across the solenoid. Bike immediately idles, without choke or throttle. Wow! I pull the choke on. I put it back together and let it idle there while I put my tools in my pockets. Drive up outside his apartment and decide to take the bike to the nearest highway and just get some open throttle in the bike to help it out.

Get my riding gear, suit up, start the bike, get it idling on choke for a while, put the seat back on. Take off.

But there's all these stop signs. And someone stops me trying to back out of their parking space and takes forever. And then they drive like 5 mph. And so about 7 blocks down, th e bike dies, having trouble in the low rpm's, Andi can't gt it to start again. Battery getting on the weaker side. Try push starting it, but its a pretty heavy bike and not exactly in a good state of tune. Find legal parking, push it there, remove the tank to check my petcock fix, and find that it was even better than I'd thought--no leaking when the tank is full, and just a little suction gets it pouring. Hook everything back up, disconnect and remove the battery and trudge uphill back home.

Battery is charging now. Now I just need a definite electrical troubleshooting procedure. Shame to be inside wasting this rare decent weather, it's somewhat clear right now and it is so nice...

Also, I now have a garage in Portland, so if I just get there, I am in a place to really break down the carbs... though my little test ride today makes me think I may not be able to make it without that. We'll see...

Could someone give me the idiot proof procedure for checking my 'relay' and tell me exactly where it is? Clymer's isn't being much help here either... I've just never had relay problems before, and can't figure out where the relay is physically located and what I should do with it. I just know the theory behind its operation.

[SlowOldGuy]

The "solenoid" you're shorting across is really a RELAY.  We've had this discussion way too many times.

A few more issues. 
If you're going to try to "run the carbs clean" (which I will guarantee won't work, I've failed at it in the past with carbs that only sat a few weeks), you're going to have to use something better than MMO.  Try a can of Seafoam, or Techron, or Startron(?).

The tank may not be venting.  That's the usual suspect when the bike acts like it runs out of fuel in a few miles.  Then sits for a while and starts back up.  Try to flush some carb cleaner or WD-40 through the tank vent. 

DavidR.

[FJmonkey]

The "solenoid" you're shorting across is really a RELAY.  We've had this discussion way too many times.

The tank may not be venting.  That's the usual suspect when the bike acts like it runs out of fuel in a few miles.  Then sits for a while and starts back up.  Try to flush some carb cleaner or WD-40 through the tank vent. 

DavidR.

If you have two keys then put one in the fuel cap, if it starts to act fuel starved then crack the cap open. It that fixes it you will need to clean out the cap and possibly perform the Flapectomy. Removal of two orange colored, silicone, round shape, reed valves. This is where the singing comes from as vapor is pulled into or out of the tank. And if you disassemble the cap, do so in a clean bucket. That tiny bearing shoots out, gets lost and the key flap will not stay up up anymore. A minor annoyance.

I hear that the Chevron products really help carbs that are a little clogged. When my bike sat for more than 2 years I had to pull the bowls and carefully clean out the idle jets. 

[ribbert]

Kyle, the sequence you describe of it cutting out and then not restarting after a few blocks is consistent with forgetting to push the choke in, the blocked tank be vent generally takes a bit longer than that.
Also, have you got the kill switch in the right position?

Motorbikes have short rubber manifolds and do not need choke for very long, unlike a car.
Noel

[fintip]

I did leave the choke halfway on. I will make sure to do a careful warm up procedure next time to eliminate that s a possibility. If the kill switch wasn't in the right position, the bike wouldn't have been running at all, and I did use it today to shut the bike off just to make sure it works, so I'm confident that it was in then right position. I've made that mistake enough times to check that when a bike won't start! I did try and start it once with the keys still hanging out of the seat lock, though. Realized that before too long, ha.)

Re: possible venting problems, odd that even a tank with two vent hoses on both top and bottom can still suffer from venting problems. I don't have two keys, but I'll get something to hold it open next time to eliminate another option.

Concerning the starter button, though, does anyone have any other suggestions as to what could cause this if not the kickstand or clutch switch? Or just some higher-up-the-chain way to bypass ALL safety circuits?

[Dads_FJ]

I did leave the choke halfway on. I will make sure to do a careful warm up procedure next time to eliminate that s a possibility. If the kill switch wasn't in the right position, the bike wouldn't have been running at all, and I did use it today to shut the bike off just to make sure it works, so I'm confident that it was in then right position. I've made that mistake enough times to check that when a bike won't start! I did try and start it once with the keys still hanging out of the seat lock, though. Realized that before too long, ha.)

Re: possible venting problems, odd that even a tank with two vent hoses on both top and bottom can still suffer from venting problems. I don't have two keys, but I'll get something to hold it open next time to eliminate another option.

Concerning the starter button, though, does anyone have any other suggestions as to what could cause this if not the kickstand or clutch switch? Or just some higher-up-the-chain way to bypass ALL safety circuits?

Can you read a schematic?  The starter gets its voltage from the Starter relay/solenoid (46). It is energized when ground is provided through relay unit (42) when energized AND the start switch (43) is pressed.  (42) is energized when 12 volts are provided through the main switch (4), ignition fuse (5), and engine stop switch (6) AND ground is provided through the side stand switch (29).  There's more to it with the oil light on etc... but this is how it is started.  Grounding the Black/yellow wire from relay unit 42 should bypass all the safety stuff.  Hopefully you can read this diagram... if not there's another pic here: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=6477.0

[Flying Scotsman]

How is yous adventure ride so far ?.
When you had the float bowls off did you make sure that they were not cloged.If the tube or plug in the bottom of it are cloged bike will be hard to start.Carbs need a thourough going through so you can comfortably ride her without fear of stoping and not starting again.My 1st 7 hour ride to and 7 hour ride home was done with a bad diaphram I didnt know because i had not gone through the carbs yet.Ride was fine till I had to stop.If I didnt start the bike up right away I had issues and drained the battery.
I have been looking at a couple of possible adventure rides but i dont have the gear  for a long cold ride so I would use a different aproach.Plan would be to drive to destination and rent a enclosed trailer put bike in trailer and tow it home.I am looking at a project bike 5 1/2 hours away right now it would cost me $40 to drive there and $100 for a enclosed 4x8 trailer which I can drop of at home.Figure $60 for gas coming back because of the trailer.Should be a cost of $200 to get her home if i buy her.
I would rather ride back but weather will suck and it would cost me mose $$.I would need to drive out and have someone come with to drive my car back so gas for car and bike.
Priced a flight and it was min $250.So not doing that.
We will se if I go in a few days.
Back to you is there anyway you can borrow a set of carbs for the ride home ?
Scott.......

[Flynt]

is there anyway you can borrow a set of carbs for the ride home?

Monkey's got those too...

Frank

[fintip]

Dadsfj, that was exactly what I needed, thank you. I would have been hard pressed to make it through that schematic alone, but with your walkthrough it all makes a lot of sense. Grounding out the yellow black wire will enable the starter button to still function, then? And if the starter button still won't get the crank to start turning, should I assume a short between it and the relay unit?

What I am left asking is: where is the relay unit? Is this the box with all the wires I see under the right side of the fairing up front? Do I need to remove the fairing to get to it? What is the best way to ground out the wire in a non-destructive way?

Scotsman, haven't removed the bowls yet. As for your ride--what about homemade gear and a bus ride out to the bike? Either way, best of luck.

As for borrowing a set of carbs, that'd almost feel like cheating, but if someone offered, I would be a fool to turn it down. Not exactly something I would feel comfortable requesting though. Hopefully I can just limp to Portland and then tear the carbs down there--portland is less than 3 hours away, so if the bike will just run fair on the highway, it's not such a crazy plan.

As for stopping and drained battery, that is my fear. It's what happened today. On the other hand, my battery was already weak because I ended up being unable to trickle charger last night. So a fully charged battery, combined with the possible solution of venting the tank more effectively, might be enough to allow me to drive safely.

Trickle charging the battery now... missing the battery side wire, so I am using speaker wire (which is a pretty heavy gauge, and I only have 750mA of current). Gets the job done. I had gotten the battery down to 11.8 volts today... no wonder it wouldn't start.its been going for hours and it's still not to 80%.

[Goetz]

reckless. the whole enterprise. Beautifully reckless.

[FJmonkey]

I can loan you my stock carbs if you really need them.

[Flying Scotsman]

Nice monkey man.
Do you have a spare set of stock carbs ?

[FJmonkey]

I currently have a loaner set from Flynt and my set are on the bench waiting for me to get the parts to rebuild them. They are bone stock and as long as I have had them, 17+ years, have not been rebuilt. They work but need to be set up for My UNIs and Suppertrapp pipes.