Cleaning Carb parts with an ultrasonic cleaner

[andyb]

Depends on the solvent.  An ultrasonic can be run with mild dish soap for the solvent, and that won't hurt a healthy rubber item.  Stronger solvents could.

[carbguy]

Depends on the solvent.  An ultrasonic can be run with mild dish soap for the solvent, and that won't hurt a healthy rubber item.  Stronger solvents could.

Ah, no.  Any solvent that would hurt a rubber diaphragm would never be used in an ultrasonic as the ultrasonic waves could ignite it.  Besides, the thrust of the comment was on the ultrasonic action, not the solution used.

[tmkaos]

Just an update - I've pulled down 2 carbs now, the problem one first, and found the emulsion tube - the one that the needle goes into and has all the tiny holes in it was surrounded by crud and junk at one end, lots of rust looks like, so hopefully a good clean of the carbs and tank will sort this out. However, under the diaphram of the carb next door I found a curled up peice of aluminium swarf.. Bit of a worry really. I do work in an engineering shop, so I'm always covered in the damn stuff but the only thing I've done to the carbs is take the airbox off and put on pods so unless when I did that a the little bugger fell out of my hair or something then got sucked up into the air passage to under the diaphram, I don't know how it got there.. Unless it's been there since it was last assembled..   Not nice to think maybe some more went thru the motor, but I guess it still runs fine, and if I had to choose any kind of swarf to go thru a motor, ali would probably be a preferable option to the tool steel I usually work with.. D2 or H13 or P20 swarf would eat a valve seat for breakfast.. Yikes..

heres a rather shitty cellphone pic of the swarf in place in the carb body.. you can just see the curl of it sitting in the bottom of the carb next to where the slide goes.. that's the 3 little lines you see, the outside of the swarf curl.


It did look like rather low quality ali, it was pretty dull, like free-cutting ali rather than the avaiation and marine grades we usually cut.. Wonder how long it's been there..


The next issue and back to my original topic is the ultrasonic we have is set up for mainly steel parts and the fluid it has in it I'm not sure is suitable for ali parts. here's the link to the stuff we use http://www.techspanonline.com/Default.aspx?TabID=44223&TabIDOrig=44221&ProductID=7976&categoryid=2053&langID=0&CurrPage=1&Search=&SearchCurrPage=1

it's the part that says "Techkleen ultrasonic cleaning solution 5 litre bottle - Aqueous (water based) concentrate. Ideal for cleaning - Heavy duty degreasing, Brightening steel, Etching aluminium
Note: not suitable for 'white metals' 

Dillution -
1:7 light cleaning, 1:4 heavy cleaning

Temperature range -
70 - 80 deg C

Removes the following type of contamination -

    Oil
    Grease
    Carbon deposits
    Fats
    Light rust
    Paint & Ink
    Varnish

Etching aluminium worries me.. I'm thinking I'll be leaving parts in there for shorter periods. Changing the fluid is not an option unfortunately as it's a work toy, not my own.

[tmkaos]

So again, another update...

All 4 are apart now,  looks like for some reason only the (as you look at motor form riding postion) LH 2 carbs were dirty, as you went left to right along the carbs they got progressively cleaner. Mainly rust and particles in the emulsion tube and float bowls, the carb bodies inside are clean enough to eat out of. I wonder if it's because the bike spends so much time on the side stand, all the crap ends up falling down that way?

Anyway, judt to get some opinions, here's what I found inside, forgive me if I get some of terminlogy wrong, hit me up and I'll happily try to expalin..

So she's a '92 with unknown brand of 4-1 headers, and a stock muffler from 2007 CB1300. 95% of my riding is done within 1000ft of sea level, in temps from 10C to 30C. She's got 4 single pod filters fitted.

Never had performance/starting/idle issues before this dirty carb.

Inside the carbs I found

Idles screws 2.5 out
A jet with 110 on it
Another jet with a 42.5 on it
Another jet with a 115 on it
Needles had 5 grooves, circlip was in the middle, 3 from bottom, 3 from top.

I've looked around and everyone seems to have differing ideas on what to run, I'm guessing as the bike ran pretty well it can't be too far off the mark...

Thoughts anyone?

Randy is kindly supplying me the s/s screw kit and o'rings but I think luckily that's all I need...

On a sadder note our ultrasonic fluid is death to ali so it's back to the old parts cleaner for me.. grumble grumble. I ran a float bowl thru it and it came out very clean but then it took me another half hour to clean the black oxidisation off the ali.. Not going to chance putting the bodies thru.

[tmkaos]

Another jet with a 115 on it

Sorry my bad.. 155 that should be...

[racerrad8]

Those are all stock jets.

Do the needles have a number stamped into them below the bottom groove?

Randy - RPM

[tmkaos]

Yes - 5FZ74 with a little symbol before that that is the same on all the other jets

[SlowOldGuy]

Except for the 42.5 idle jet, those are all stock components.  You should bump the main jet up and shim the needles.

DavidR.

[racerrad8]

Except for the 42.5 idle jet, those are all stock components.  You should bump the main jet up and shim the needles.

DavidR.

Actually, the 42.5 pilots were standard on international models...none of the US "emissions" requirements.

Yes - 5FZ74 with a little symbol before that that is the same on all the other jets

I recommend going up to 115-117.5, raise the needle one notch and open up the mixture screws to blip test perfection.

Randy - RPM

[fj11.5]

what year did they start using the 42.5,s   , all the 1100 ,and 1200,s up to 89 that ive delved into only had the 37.5,s  pilots ,and 112.5 mains , could explain why mine had po bored out mains and every carb has had some boofhead chew out the pilots screw head  trying to find out what was in it,  the manuals should be clearer on some things  , , if you ever get bored randy , thats something you should wright, a manual with all your tips and tricks, and decent explanation of all thigs fj that others dont do   

[tmkaos]

I recommend going up to 115-117.5, raise the needle one notch and open up the mixture screws to blip test perfection.

Randy - RPM

Thank you Randy - I'll do that. Just to be crystal clear - raising the needle is moving up one notch INTO the slide, AWAY from the carb body and jet, correct? So I will place the circlip in a lower position towards the tip of the needle?

Randy i think you have probably operated with your customary efficiency and have allready shipped my screw set, silly me for not checking this first..

Oh well, what's 2 lots of shipping cost compared to more Kookaloo? Priceless...

Thank you for your replies, when she's back on the road I will let you all know how she roars... Probably be able to hear the YAHOO of delight all the way to the States from NZ...

Cheers, James

[racerrad8]

Lower the clip closer to the pointy end of the needle is how you want to adjust them.

Randy - RPM

[tmkaos]

Well the major work is out of the way on the carbs, all cleaned up, raised the needles by 1 groove, bigger main jets and new shiny stainless capscrews, orings etc courtesy of Randy. They even appear to hold pressure when you turn them upside down and blow into the fuel line so I must have done something right. 



So now while everything is off I'm checking my valve clearances and will adjust if necessary, then it'l be time to synch and enjoy the fruits of my labour.. Speaking of labour in 6 weeks my daughter will arrive which means in 3 weeks we have to give my wife's company car back (farewell, fuel card, you served us well) and then we become a single car, single bike family. So that's my deadline, after that I'm either walking to work or riding a pushbike if I don't get her back on the road!

On the synch side of things I bought a Gunston Carb balancer as it was about 1/4 the price of the other units available. Although you can only synch 2 carbs at a time I don't see that as an issue as you synch the carbs in pairs anyway. Has anyone else used one of these on an FJ or shall i be the first? Any tips?

Cheers,

James

[tmkaos]

Okay so another update and a question for those tuning gurus out there..

Carbs are back on the bike with

117.5 mains, up from 110
Needles raised 1 groove, from middle of 5 available to 2nd from end,
155 air jet
42.5 pilots
Mixture screws 2.5 turns out

The rest - Individual filters, 4-1 headers and an '07 CB1300 muffler, 91 octane fuel.

Blip test is 100%, neither hangs nor stumbles. Balanced using  a Gunson Balancer - not the most efficient of designs but with a little Kiwi ingenuity it worked.
She happily ticks away at 1000rpm idle.

Took her for a ride and I'm noticing a low end heisitation, under 3500rpm ish as you pour on power it seems to bog, doesnt cough or stumble but there is a definate hole in the power band there, then up from around 5000rpm it's all go to the redline. 
This is a change from before when she was more even across the rev range - a smallish hole down low but not as bad as now.

I talked this over with some like minded individuals and they are of the opinion that with bigger jets and raised needles I am too rich in the low end... We wondering if our NZ 91 octane fuel, which is old-school style, no ethanol blend is a bit richer than what most of you State-side folks are running (88-90 octane ethanol blend?) and so the jetting recomendations might have made it too rich?


Any thoughts guys?

[SlowOldGuy]

I've seen a high fuel level (rich condition) cause those exact same symptoms. 
The 155 air jet is stock, what was in it before?

Since it's relatively easy to do, try leaning the needle position 1 or 2 grooves and see what the effect is.  That will tell you which way to go.

DavidR.