How much additional oil capacity with spin on filter?

[Pat Conlon]

"..... well the Scott will filter down smaller then a grain of sand some where in the range of 3 to 5 microns besides which not all oil is filtered thru the filter as there is a bypass value in there, which allows the oil to bypass the filter...."

Baldy, before you dog pile Ed, FYI, we had this discussion a couple of years ago when I brought up the subject of Scott filters.
Scott's claim that they filter down to 35 microns (not 3 to 5 microns like you posted)
http://www.scottsperformance.com/products.php?PartType=3 (scroll down)
The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) did engine failure testing showing that that 35 micron was not sufficient filtering.
IIRC Engine/bearing damage occurred with oil contaminates in the 10 to 20 micron range.

Ed, do you still have a link to the SAE white paper?

[simi_ed]

Thanks Paddy.  Actually, YOU made the post, not me!  
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3247.msg27039#msg27039

Marsh also found similar info:
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=3247.msg27044#msg27044

Not my words, but real experts telling you that you're a fool if you use a 35 micron filter. Do so at your own risk!

[baldy3853]

Not my words, but real experts telling you that you're a fool if you use a 35 micron filter. Do so at your own risk!
AHHHHHH the so called experts ..... and whats an expert nothing but a drip under pressure of course these idiots will say these things they are nothing but buffoons for the paper filter manufactures
Baldy

[WestOzXJR]

And what micron rating does the "el-cheapest" paper oil filter manufacturer (that most people go for) guarantee their filters are?

I've asked that question before of some of the here-today-gone-tomorrow filter manufacturers (who were trying to convince me I should risk a $300k+ engine using their filters) and have NEVER  been able to get them to commit to an answer in writing!

One last point, if Scott have been making these filters for like more than ten years AND they are so crappy that they cause/allow engine damage, then WHY hasn't someone sued their arse off? They'd have only needed a couple of lost law suits for their insurers to dump them and then they'd sure as hell would have stopped making them.

[fj11.5]

Scott filters sound like a good idea,

[simi_ed]

Not my words, but real experts telling you that you're a fool if you use a 35 micron filter. Do so at your own risk!
AHHHHHH the so called experts ..... and whats an expert nothing but a drip under pressure of course these idiots will say these things they are nothing but buffoons for the paper filter manufactures
Baldy

If you choose to identify the Society of Automotive Engineers buffoons, then I wash my hands of this.

Personally, I use Amsoil filters that have a 98.7% efficiency rating at 15 microns.  Now, what was that Scott filter rated at?

[baldy3853]

Personally, I use Amsoil filters that have a 98.7% efficiency rating at 15 microns.  Now, what was that Scott filter rated at?
[/quote]
Ed Im sorry you are missing the point it doesn't matter that your filter filters @ 15 microns as not all oil is filtered @ the same time, ITS FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE!!!! provided you do regular oil changes!!! its the best kind of maintenance you can do for your trusty stead. What a lot of you guys tend to forget is that in Australia to buy any genuine part for our bikes cost us 3 to 4 times what you pay so an oil filter is about $20 to 30 a time and changing oil @ every 5 thousand K it becomes expensive!  
Baldy

[Mike Ramos]

Gentlemen,
Lets not forget the humor...
Baldy is correct that all of the oil is not filtered; in fact the dirtier the filter the less oil it will flow because of the by-pass. The reusable filter is a good idea, just keep it clean.
I use WIX spin on filters and except on cross country rides, I change both the oil & filters regularly. There are a lot of [sometimes hard] miles on my motorcycle, so there is some credence to regular oil & filter changes.
Hopped up or not, he engine in question here had nothing to do with oil or filters; it appears the carb jetting and timing were incorrect - leading to pinging and knocking and high engine temperature, as noted by the high oil temperature (I think 300 plus degrees was stated) which led to drastically shortened engine life.
I also have an oil temp gauge and I have never seen 300 degrees yet; mainly because I stay within the tune up parameters that are recommended by the gentleman who has perhaps seen more FJ engines than anyone else on this Forum; and based on what I saw at Gunnision, who is a pretty good rider as well.
Theory is fine, but empirical facts are difficult to ignore.
Keep smiling & ride safe,
Mike Ramos.

[SlowOldGuy]

Just curious:

Has ANYONE ever had a clogged up oil filter under "normal" operating conditions?

I'm not talking about something letting go in the engine (like a clutch), just general crud buildup.

Does anyone leave oil (or a filter) in for THAT long?

Just wondering as I have NEVER had any oil filter (or oil related) problems on ANYTHING I own, EVER!  And I've changed oil in a lot of stuff over the years and I even use "crappy" Fram filters!

I've been changing oil in vehicles since 1969 when I got my first motorcycle (which BTW I put 60,000 miles on and it DIDN'T EVEN HAVE an oil filter!).

DavidR.

[baldy3853]

[
I've asked that question before of some of the here-today-gone-tomorrow filter manufacturers (who were trying to convince me I should risk a $300k+ engine using their filters) and have NEVER  been able to get them to commit to an answer in writing!

One last point, if Scott have been making these filters for like more than ten years AND they are so crappy that they cause/allow engine damage, then WHY hasn't someone sued their arse off? They'd have only needed a couple of lost law suits for their insurers to dump them and then they'd sure as hell would have stopped making them.
[/quote]
Scott's have been used on some racing cars in the US for years I think in some cases for over 20yrs, I just have found them to be the best of both worlds for us poor Aussies who have been ripped off for too long by the manufactures and dealers in our great country, I can remember on my 1st trip to the Moto GP and changing the oil because I'd done my 1st 5000 K's pulling into this dealership in the middle of bum fuck Idaho and paying $27 for it and saying to myself this is ridiculous there has to be a better way, $109's later I found it paid for it's self in 4 changes and I've now done over 90000k's and still going strong, same as the air filter its around $60 - 70 Aust bought a K&N air filter which was around $80 US paid for it's self after 2 major services.
I realise that some people don't have the same problems we have in Australia but the best thing you can do to YOUR STEAD is regular maintenance, ie change the bloody oil often and re grease  bearings and wash your bloody bike nothing worse then some poor smuck having to work on a bike that looks like a piece of shit!!! no wonder most shops treat us and our bikes with such distain
Baldy

[Mike Ramos]

Baldy & David R,
Right on the money...
These bikes are a hobby but when the dogma gets involved the fun diminishes.
Opinions on oil & filters are the same re: the the upside down forks....
Uh oh, did I open another Pandora's box...?
I'm outta here...
Keep the humor & ride safe,
Mike Ramos.

[Pat Conlon]

In concept, I agree Mike, although your use of the term "dogma" is inaccurate.
 
We are not talking about religious beliefs which are accepted without evidence, or acceptable opinions of philosophers or philosophical schools, public decrees, or issued decisions of political authorities.....

We are talking about science, with methodological testing and empirical evidence.

Some oil filters are better than others,  just as....some fork designs are better than others..... it's simple.

[1tinindian]

Can't we all just get along?
Now, everybody go out to your FJ and polish something!

LOL!

Leon

[Mike Ramos]

Hi Pat,
Well, actually dogma is the correct word. While it may be used in the religious context (dogmatics re: Christianity),in this instance it means "a settled opinion or belief" or "to assert with arrogance" (now that is harsh). But all in good fun gentlemen.
And yes, some filters are better than others and some forks designs are better than others; however (and remember I used "empirical" first) but it is the application that we are talking about. And as Baldy has shown with empirical fact, he gets good engine life out of a reusable oil filter. And DavidR made a good point as well.
Now on to the denigration of a stock front fork and the skinny front axle - the only modification I made (and reluctantly as I thought the stock forks were fine) was to install the fork valves from RPM. Please keep in mind that this was many thousands of miles and three sets of tires ago {and in all kind of weather, day and night too}, because of the increase in performance of the front end (I soon added the fork brace to keep it stable)  before the first set of tires wore out, I blew out the rear shock and just prior to Gunnision the front rim got tweaked somewhere along the way through the second set of tires. And by the way, the fork valves also enabled me to upgrade the tires themselves. I modified & installed a different upgraded rear shock to handle the increase in performance and demands of the front forks. The point being that even under the increased loads & stress imposed upon the skinny little front forks because of the performance of the new valves, they remain true and straight and the axle, skinny as it is is just fine. Even exceeding the design parameters of the front rim did not harm anything else. So, empirically speaking the best, simplest modification to the front forks (and affordable too) are the fork valves, and perhaps the fork brace as well. So set your dogma aside (with good humor of course) and look at your upside forks from any angle and I doubt that the performance of a 20 year old motorcycle will exceed the performance of even a simple enhancement of the basic suspension.
I seem to have gotten off the subject of oil & filters. But change them both regularly and you will have long engine life.
Keep in good humor & ride safe,
Mike Ramos.    

[Pat Conlon]

"...and as Baldy has shown with empirical fact, he gets good engine life out of a reusable oil filter...."

Bingo...That's precisely where we differ... Baldy's experience is not based on empirical fact, rather it's based on anecdotal evidence.

All in good fun of course...