Can't bleed rear brakes

[simi_ed]

I need some help!  I've been trying to bleed my rear caliper for nearly a week.  The initial problem was stuck master cylinder.  I found the plunger in the fully compressed position, and it was stuck.  After a bit of tapping, it returned to the home position.  
Now, onto bleeding the rear:  I've sucked nearly a quart of fluid through with a Mity-Vac, I've done the traditional pump-pump-pump-pump-open the bleeder-pump-close the bleeder.  No joy either.  I pushed the caliper pistons back in today, and they are not pumping back out against the rotor.  

Sooooooo, I tried to use a syringe to push fluid backwards into the reservoir, hoping to also force the piston out.  
That one didn't turn out so well, the line popped off the bleeder, spraying DOT 4 all over the FJ AND my truck!  OK, close the brake fluid, cover the reservoir, break out the garden hose.  Wash the truck AND the back of the FJ.  Done for today  

I'm up a creek, and out of ideas.  Anybody got a thought?  I could sure use an idea.  
BTW, 2 weeks to Porterville, in case anyone forgot ...
TIA,

Ed

[Pat Conlon]

pm me your address asap and I will overnight mail you a m/c. I've got a bunch in my garage.  Pat

[FJ111200]

OK then try this.
Fill the m/c reservoir with fluid then take off the banjo bolt. Put your finger or thumb over the hole and pump and release and also release your digit and you should hear a popping  or sucking sound from the m/c. Do it a few times and fluid should come out of the hole.
Then connect up the hose and give it a few pumps on the m/c. Then disconnect the hose at the caliper and repeat the procedure with your finger or thumb over the banjo on the hose until the popping or sucking sound is heard and fluid starts to come out.
Then connect up back onto the caliper and give a few pumps. Release or undo the bleed nipple and again apply your finger or thumb and pump and release your digit until the sucking or popping sound is heard and fluid comes out.
By now your system should be more or less bled and then you can just finish off in the usual way.
Works for me every time. HTH.

[simi_ed]

Thanks Pat, check your g-mail.

Ed

[Pat Conlon]

On it's way.....

[edit] forum crashed......as I was saying....via USPS should be there on Saturday.

[FJmonkey]

Ed!!! You use the rear brakes? Really? Not in the twisties, I hope not. Don't let this kill the ride on Sunday for you, ride anyway, fix it after.

[SlowOldGuy]

There is a very good reason they include rear brakes on bikes.

Plus, after Mic Doohan had his foot injury and couldn't use the rear brake pedal, he started using a thumb operated rear brake that everyone else picked up.  Nicky Hayden is also a big rear brake user.

Why would you not use it?

DavidR.

[andyb]

+1

It's another option to control the bike, having it adjusted to work with your riding style and knowing how to use it will make it useful.

[FJ111200]

Not in the twisties, I hope not. 

When you don't want the front diving into a bend, use the rear brake. Too much front brake and you lose the line.
The road ain't a race track anyway.

[markmartin]

I use both most of the  time..  for me, I find it settles the bike nicely that way.   So, here goes the rear brake discussion. ..

Any other rear brake fans out there?

[WestOzXJR]

I use both most of the  time..  for me, I find it settles the bike nicely that way.   So, here goes the rear brake discussion. ..

Any other rear brake fans out there?

Yes, I agree with you Mark, it's very effective in changing the mid corner balance and whether it be normal everyday braking or even in an emergency stop, 99% of the time I apply the rear brake before the front.

[andyb]

It may be that I've ridden a variety of crappy bikes in my life, but the rear brake's uses include being dragged slightly to let you crack the gas open much earlier without gaining speed... which takes the slack out of the driveline and prevents the wiggle when you do transition from coasting to on the gas.  You can also tighten your line with it without adjusting the throttle.  And it's super handy in the wet as well.

The rear brake at no time provides the bulk of the stopping force.  But it can add a significant amount of control when used well.

Hayden's use of the rear brake in motogp may possibly be in part traced to him saying that he was using it at Laguna Seca to keep the front wheel on the ground in spots.  Odds are he's using it in other places as well, but that's a professional, world-class rider saying in effect that it was easier to use the brake a pinch than to modulate the throttle, and that's not even in a cornering situation...

[simi_ed]

Update:  The rear master was the culprit.  I didn't realize, but when I unstuck the piston in my MC, I lost a part!
The little cap(-bastard) on top of the return spring escaped!  I didn't realize this until I disassemble Pat's MC, only to find an extra part over what mine has. 
BTW Paddy, your MC was stuck just like mine was.  I was a LOT more careful disassembling yours, and it paid off!  I'll find that missing SOB, and clean & reassemble yours ASAP.  I'll also need a return address.

Thanks to everyone that offered help and/or advice.

[FJmonkey]

When you don't want the front diving into a bend, use the rear brake. Too much front brake and you lose the line.
The road ain't a race track anyway.

With Randy's fork cartridges on a 17" front really reduces the front end dive when one needs to add some brake in the corners. My ride yesterday with Simi_Ed proved to me how the tech really works. Some the roads we hit on the return part were washboard old asphalt in every corner. Real kidney busters. The front felt planted and the back was bouncing like a pogo stick. I kept the balls of my feet on the pegs, Left cheek, Right cheek, weight shift and only had to worry about how much the rear was bouncing and assisting with the turn as each bounce gave it scoot outward. I know how the rear brake can provide a stabilizing effect and used to do it years ago. Without moving the brake control away from the foot I cannot see the point in using it for only Left hand turns. Don't want my foot wedging between the bike and the road. On a race bike the pegs may allow room but the stock FJ runs out of room leaned over enough. If you practice it all the time, you have a good chance at being good at it. 

[cjard]

I'll find that missing SOB, and clean & reassemble yours ASAP.  I'll also need a return address.

If that cap's languishing in the dustballs on the floor at the back of the bench, it might be easier to just PayPal him some beer vouchers.. He did say he had loads of M/Cs in his garage; i'm presuming they weren't all attached to bikes