head teardown and new valve seals

[silas]

I sandwiched two of the .010 coated steel base gaskets.

I put as much of the engine back on as I could without the new shims. Pistons slid into place snug and might be .010 below the block surface.

What's the proper torque on the cylinder bolt nuts? The Clymer spec table is a jumbled mess through these celebratory beer goggles. Is it 25lb?

[racerrad8]

I sandwiched two of the .010 coated steel base gaskets.

I put as much of the engine back on as I could without the new shims. Pistons slid into place snug and might be .010 below the block surface.

What's the proper torque on the cylinder bolt nuts? The Clymer spec table is a jumbled mess through these celebratory beer goggles. Is it 25lb?

Yes, 25 ft lbs

Randy - RPM

[silas]

Got it back together enough to idle last night. Some light smoke started coming off, so I left it until today to do a thorough inspection of the source. Most is just oil from the #4 exhaust downpipe, which I knew still had some residue on the inside. I'll pull it and blast it out with some carb cleaner today. Also found a firmly packed wad of smoking grime to the left of plug #3. Had to scrape it up with a screwdriver and dust with compressed air. Most likely held together by WD40 and engine degreaser. Smelled lovely.

I polished the valve cover. Shall I leave it like this or does it need paint?






Here's a full body shot. Well, without some vital organs and skin...




Gonna play with the idle today. I put the new K&N filter in the stock airbox. What might I expect regarding the mixture screw settings? About  one full turn on each? Less than that? (It's 75° and sunny here in LA.)

[craigo]

Polished metal is just perfectly beautiful. No need to do anything else to the valve cover. Like wood, it's almost a sin to paint it once it's been polished like that.

Nice job, BTW.

CraigO

[Pat Conlon]

+1... I like the way you think Craig! Well said laddie....

[silas]

So the bike fires up just fine and idles, but I'm having trouble with backfiring and a light colored smoke from both cans. Can't tell if it's blue smoke or just gray. I've been reading that a bit of smoke after a rebuild like this is normal, but how can I tell if it's my carb settings that are causing these problems and not something else to fix/replace? Do I need to tear down again and replace the piston rings now?

btw: I've been wondering if this thread should be moved to the Project Writeups section.

[oldktmdude]

  Did you not install new rings when you had it apart? I remember reading that you cleaned up the pistons so I thought you were fitting new rings. Cleaning carbon off used pistons and re-using old rings is a recipe for creating an oil burner. If I've got it wrong and you did install new rings, did you hone out the bores? I went through a similar experience about a year ago except I fitted new rings and honed the bores and it still burned oil. I ended up re-boring and fitting a 1219 Wiseco kit. It turned out that the bores were out of round.   It has not burned any oil since.       Regards, Pete.

[silas]

Nope. I didn't replace the rings.

I did build a manometer this evening and balanced the carbs myself. Spent $13.50 and maybe two hours. I guess I'll take the money I saved and invest in a big bore kit now.

Project bike indeed. Wonder when I'll ever ride it again.

[fj1289]

I'd take it out and run it.  Give it a chance to THOROUGHLY warm up and then run it hard up through the gears to load up the rings and give them a chance to re-seat.

If that doesn't do it, you might want to try this: http://650rider.com/index.php?file=viewtopic&name=Forums&t=6061

a couple clips from that link-

"Your rings have not seated...sometimes it takes quite a while and if they don't seat right away the cylinders can glaze......a put together which I do all the time can have seating problems.......the last time I recommended a level teaspoon of baking soda in the spark plug hole and turn it over a bit and replace the plug and run it (one cylinder at a time) ....but I don't recommend this any more since I got beat up for it.....but I will continue to do it....."

"In the mid 60's I watched Smokey Yunick at the Daytona 500 sprinkle Bon Ami cleanser down the carb on a 421 Pontiac. Held it at 6000 on the tach and sprinkled it right down the carb, instant ring seal ! Baking soda seems pretty mild compared to that."

At the very worst, if you're not happy with the results, you're still looking at a teardown and rebuild...worth a shot in my book!  I personally wouldn't hesitate to try it if it's smoking like that, but I would change the oil and filter at the end of the ride! 

Chris W.

[SkyFive]

Speaking from experience, another source of oil ingestion is worn intake valve stems and guides. If you haven't installed positive valve seals on the intakes you should consider it if you have to take it back apart.

[silas]

I did install Viton valve seals. Checked the guides for play and they were all okay and even better with the new seals in place.

I was reading on a Harley forum about the Bon Ami trick. Seems too good to be true. What would be the worst side effect?

Honestly, I don't mind tearing down to do the rings, but if I have to go that far, I'd rather just do a 1250 kit and really make it worth my while!

[WestOzXJR]

Awww, probably you just haven't broken 'er in right...

Try it like these guys do it...

F1 Engine Break In (ending is crazy!)

[silas]

Holy crap... that's awesome. Afraid the bike would blow to bits if I held it at 6000 for more than a minute right now. Not feeling all too confident with the state of things.

I've got more black oil dripping from the exhaust box where it meets the right can. I cleaned the #4 downpipe, and the joint where it meets the box is now clean. I should have cleared out the box too while I had it apart. Going to do that today and see if the smoke dissipates any. Must be a puddle in there. The can itself is clear.

I do have the old spark plugs. Should I try the Bon Ami / baking soda trick?

A little more backstory: Beside the carbs being gunked solid (nearly clogged jets and stuck floats), the #3 and #4 boots from the airbox were torn when I got it. #4 boot had some sort of botched seal that was peeling off. I replaced them after maybe 200 miles of my own riding, but who knows how long it was running with that sort of leak. I assume the #4 banger was taking a beating by unfiltered air for a while to produce the carbon buildup seen on teardown. It had to have been running very lean at least. Right? What I'm wondering is whether this neglect has royally fouled the cylinder to the point of replacement. Aside from that, I'm under the suspicion that the #4 sleeve was replaced at some point. As noted earlier, it was seated in the block about .012 lower than the other three, hence the resurfacing I had done. Could it have dropped that much under naturally occurring wear?

[JMR]

 Could try this too....go to 40 seconds.  1966 Honda RC166 Exhaust Engine Sound

[WestOzXJR]

Should I try the Bon Ami / baking soda trick?

No I wouldn't do that just yet, I'd take her for a run and burn off that excess oil in the exhaust collector then re-evaluate where it's at from there.