Running ragged in SoCal

[threejagsteve]

Time for an update...

Yesterday I had the carbs off again and did more cleaning. I had another can of Gumout CA-legal (low VOCs) carb and choke cleaner so I pulled the float bowls again and used most of it recleaning the pilot jets and pilot air jets, and spraying in any other orifice that looked like it might need it...

Got it all back together. I had to pull the 2 middle airbox rubbers to get that crankcase breather hose reconnected - the book says to disconnect it from the bottom (crankcase) side, but with the rubber(?) mat, electrical connectors and other stuff under there I can't even see how to get to it from the bottom.

Anyway, as Rich said, that hose is just a breather, not a PCV system, and my extra cleaning and hooking up that hose hasn't done the trick.

Now, when warmed, the idle starts low and gradually over about 15 sec. rises to 1000. Even when warm if I even crack the throttle she immediately dies, so now she's worse than before I started.

In a day or two after I've recuperated from the sore hands and knees from yesterday's thrash (I'm 54 and don't have the stamina or resilience that I once did) I'll see if I didn't just do something stupid like get a crimp in the fuel line or not turn the gas tank petcock all the way on or something.

If that's not the case, I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and do a complete disassembly and cleaning of the carbs -  something I'd been hoping to avoid.

Cheers,
threejagsteve

[threejagsteve]

Thanks for this post to FJ Flyer, in the Mikuni BS Carb Guide:

"On the later models with a fuel pump, a kinked overflow hose will pressurize the float bowl and spew fuel into
the carb throat and out the air filter or into the engine. Take some extra time here and make sure everything is routed correctly."

Something else for me to check tomorrow, as I know I wasn't particularly careful with these yesterday! Maybe she's not starving, but drowning!

[RichBaker]

Time for an update...

Yesterday I had the carbs off again and did more cleaning. I had another can of Gumout CA-legal (low VOCs) carb and choke cleaner so I pulled the float bowls again and used most of it recleaning the pilot jets and pilot air jets, and spraying in any other orifice that looked like it might need it...

Got it all back together. I had to pull the 2 middle airbox rubbers to get that crankcase breather hose reconnected - the book says to disconnect it from the bottom (crankcase) side, but with the rubber(?) mat, electrical connectors and other stuff under there I can't even see how to get to it from the bottom.

I install the airbox, and make sure the elbow is in the hose, and that the hose/elbow is sticking up in the general vicinity of the hole it goes into, then I take a big-AZZ screwdriver and lever the elbow into the hole in the airbox AFTER all the clamps are tight and the bolts are in that bolt the airbox to the frame. Any other method takes forever to get it in....

Anyway, as Rich said, that hose is just a breather, not a PCV system, and my extra cleaning and hooking up that hose hasn't done the trick.

Now, when warmed, the idle starts low and gradually over about 15 sec. rises to 1000. Even when warm if I even crack the throttle she immediately dies, so now she's worse than before I started.

In a day or two after I've recuperated from the sore hands and knees from yesterday's thrash (I'm 54 and don't have the stamina or resilience that I once did) I'll see if I didn't just do something stupid like get a crimp in the fuel line or not turn the gas tank petcock all the way on or something.

If that's not the case, I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and do a complete disassembly and cleaning of the carbs -  something I'd been hoping to avoid.

Cheers,
threejagsteve

[SlowOldGuy]

What Rich said.  The idle circuit still isn't clean.  You've got to pull the idle jet, the air pilot jet, and the idle mixture screw assembly and MAKE SURE this passage is totally clean.  Otherwise, you're just wasting your time.  With all the time you've invested to this point, you could have already done it right and not suffered further frustration.

There is no shortcut to a clean carb.
DavidR.

[threejagsteve]

With all the time you've invested to this point, you could have already done it right and not suffered further frustration.

There is no shortcut to a clean carb.
DavidR.

If I have to take the carbs off a third time, I'll admit you're right! 

Tomorrow (or Thursday) will tell...

Cheers,
threejagsteve

[racerman_27410]

With all the time you've invested to this point, you could have already done it right and not suffered further frustration.

There is no shortcut to a clean carb.
DavidR.

If I have to take the carbs off a third time, I'll admit you're right! 

Tomorrow (or Thursday) will tell...

Cheers,
threejagsteve

he is right.... and you wont have to admit it cause we already know.....

Kookaloo!

[threejagsteve]

I install the airbox, and make sure the elbow is in the hose, and that the hose/elbow is sticking up in the general vicinity of the hole it goes into, then I take a big-AZZ screwdriver and lever the elbow into the hole in the airbox AFTER all the clamps are tight and the bolts are in that bolt the airbox to the frame. Any other method takes forever to get it in....

Thanks again, Rich!

That sounds easier than the way I did it, which took a good 20 min.

I hadn't thought of pulling the elbow - it looks to be securely in there - but if there is a next time, I'll certainly give your way a try!

Cheers,
threejagsteve

[threejagsteve]

OK, OK; as much as I hate to admit I was wrong, it's apparent that my quick-and-dirty way just isn't getting the job done. These aren't big old S.U.s...  LOL

So now I'll clean 'em the right way... Third time's the charm!

--starting to have fond remembrances of the EFI on my old GPz1100  

[waricle]

I am starting to wonder if it wouldn't be worthwhile taking it to a bike shop and getting the mechanic to clean, tune and balance the carbs?

[racerrad8]

It depends on how much you trust you local m/c shop...

If you are in need, I can get your carbs all taken care of. I am in Nor-Cal; equipped with all the parts needed if replacement is required and have an ultrasonic cleaner for the best clean possible.

I have build hundreds of carb sets over the last 16 years,

Let me know if I can help.

Randy - RPM
rpm@swaybar.com

[threejagsteve]

Hello, Randy,

waricle is in Oz and, based on my eBay experience, I suspect that airmail would be close to $100 each way.

And I'm doing my own. I'm halfway through the complete teardown, cleaning them to within an inch of their lives, and reassembling with all-new o-rings. I know all the diaphragms and floatbowl gaskets are ok since I had those apart before.

I didn't want to go to all this trouble (hence my previous half-measures) but now that I've seen that I must, I'm doing it right. And although this is the first time I've had these carbs apart, I've done a number of others in the past.

But thanks for the offer; I may well be ordering one of your oil filter adapters in the near future.

Cheers,
threejagsteve

[threejagsteve]

I am pleased to report that my carbs are now thoroughly cleaned and re-o-ringed, and all back together, bench synced, and ready to go on the bike tomorrow!

Nothing seemed dirty enough to have given me the trouble I had, but the float needle seat o-rings were shot, so maybe that was the major malfunction. I'll find out tomorrow!

A couple of things I thought I'd pass along...

A single bristle from an old toothbrush is great for cleaning those tiny holes in the emulsion tube and the idle jet.

The reason those hardware store allen-head screws are so expensive is that they are high-alloy steel and much stronger than they need to be for carb applications. Therefore unless you just want allens, ordinary hex heads work fine everywhere except the float bowls, where there isn't clearance for a socket, and save about $15.

I used Buna-N (nitrile) o-rings, as that's what's used in fuel system applications in the hi-po car stuff catalogs I get. Also, I checked a chemical properties site that said they're "good to excellent" with oil and fuel, but not so good with sunlight/weather. That's ok; I'm sticking 'em where the sun don't shine anyway!

And thanks to whoever it was that posted those o-ring dimensions here or on the Yahoo list; I can't remember where I found the post. Was that you, Randy?

Ever onward and upward!
threejagsteve

[waricle]

Good lock threejags!
I had a workshop next door to a Carb specialist and he would spend all day rebuilding Holley and Weber carbs and he said "I don't even think about trying to clean a carb unless I have compressed air"
I didn't listen of course and tried to clean a single dual barrel Rochester- it wouldn't go of course and when I took it to him he gave me back the carb and the bit of rag jammed in one if the jets.........

[threejagsteve]

Well, chores and errands wound up eating too much of my day so I didn't even get to touch the bike.  But now the decks are cleared for tomorrow!

One thing I forgot to mention yesterday is that if you have a CA-spec bike with the fuel-vapor recovery system switching unit under the carbs, you WILL need a couple of Allen-heads for the two screws that hold the bracket for that switching unit - once again, no room for a socket. If you don't have that extra plumbing under the carbs, don't worry about it!

waricle, if I had to rebuild carbs all day every day, I'd need compressed air too! But the last I did was a pair of '60s-vintage S.U.s for one of my Jags; that was about 5 years ago.

As it was, I went through four 16-oz. cans of spray cleaner and probably 4 dozen Q-Tips. And that was being economical with the cleaner - as I was spraying the carb bodies I was holding them over a metal 2-kg coffee can to catch the runoff so I could use it to soak the smaller parts.

It took about 2-1/2 hours for each carb after I had them off the bike.

Most of the outside cleaning was probably unnecessary, but I'd decided that as long as I had them all apart I might as well make them as clean as I could. I'm not too big on unnecessary cleaning - my cars have been known to go years between washes (but I do keep the windows clean, as that is necessary). I've seen bumper stickers that say, "I'd rather be..." surfing, sailing, flying, riding my FJ, whatever. But I have never seen one that says, "I'd rather be cleaning"! <g>

cheers,
threejagsteve

[waricle]

Here's hoping all goes well when they're back together.
Are there any fuel additives worth adding to the fuel to help keep things in the carbs clean without buggering up the rubbery bits?