Pissing fuel out of left fat drain... ('89)

[GoofyLeo3]

OK, after throwing in the towel 2 yrs ago, I'm back at it. (read my recent introduction post from Wisconsin der 'eh)
Replacement fuel pump is in and works as perscribed meaning I don't have to replace the suspected relay. Changed out the oil & gas mixture, and filter, that was in the crankcase from my last go-around with the oil change from my Fazer. Tried starting it and fuel started pissing out of what I suspect is either a fat drain or vent hose that starts inbetween carbs 1 & 2 and exits behind the left cover, right in front of the airbox inlet.
Have used the search tool and have come up with the following suggestions; 1) worn float needles and/or seats 2) bad O-rings sealing the inlet needle seat to the carb body and 3) stuck floats.
I know the carbs are clean because I did it over the course of 2 days using compressed air, fishing line and dye penetrant to check those teeny-tiny ports that flow something like 1 molecule of fuel per hour.
I've whapped the carbs with a deadblow to check for something stuck (to no avail).
Any other theories as to why the surplus of fuel before I order new needles & seats?
Is the hose (vent/drain) the fuel is pissing out of SUPPOSED to exit by the airbox inlet or route someplace else?
And 1 last, non-related post.... I need to replace the mirrors on this '89 and I've seen a lotta replies to use CBR1000 ones. However, no one says what YEAR will work with the 43mm C to C hole spacing I have, and Dennis Kirk says theirs WON'T work because of the hole spacing. But this is secondary to getting the FJ running again.
Any help is greatly appreciated, even if it's just pointing me to a previous thread that I've missed in my tries with the search bar.
Thanks; 1 Goofy F*cker in Wisconsin.

[racerman_27410]

sounds like it may be time for some new o rings on the float needle valves...... unless you replaced those recently.

did you also replace the old fuel filter under the tank?

it doesnt take much debris to stop a needle valve from sealing..... are the needle valves orignial also?



KOokaloo!

[markmartin]

>>>snip

And 1 last, non-related post.... I need to replace the mirrors on this '89 and I've seen a lotta replies to use CBR1000 ones. However, no one says what YEAR will work with the 43mm C to C hole spacing I have, and Dennis Kirk says theirs WON'T work because of the hole spacing. But this is secondary to getting the FJ running again.

<<< snip

In the post by andyb  http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=2027.0

CBR1000RR 04-06
CBR600RR 03-06

The write up is in the attachment.

I found ebay to be an inexpensive source for these mirrors.  YMMV.  I'm not sure what Dennis Kirk is getting for them.

[RichBaker]

Most likely cause is the o-rings, I have the original float needles in my '90 and they're still in good shape. I have replaced the o-rings several times....

[GoofyLeo3]

Bike has 32K on the clock. Suspect the internals are original (and very clean) even though they have the upgraded SS allen head exterior fasteners.
At least NOW I can order replacement mirrors! 

[racerrad8]

...either a fat drain or vent hose that starts inbetween carbs 1 & 2 and exits behind the left cover, right in front of the airbox inlet.
Have used the search tool and have come up with the following suggestions; 1) worn float needles and/or seats 2) bad O-rings sealing the inlet needle seat to the carb body and 3) stuck floats.
I know the carbs are clean because I did it over the course of 2 days using compressed air, fishing line and dye penetrant to check those teeny-tiny ports that flow something like 1 molecule of fuel per hour.
I've whapped the carbs with a deadblow to check for something stuck (to no avail).
Any other theories as to why the surplus of fuel before I order new needles & seats?
Is the hose (vent/drain) the fuel is pissing out of SUPPOSED to exit by the airbox inlet or route someplace else?
Thanks; 1 Goofy F*cker in Wisconsin.

The large hose between the two carbs if the bowl vent/overflow hose and thus you have fuel bypassing the needle and seat. Whether by the tip of the needle of the o-ring around the outside it is getting by.

I think I read, you have installed a replacement fuel pump, did you get a stock pump or an aftermarket unit? If you got an aftermarket, what is the pressure rating?

When you had the carbs all apart did you inspection the rubber tip of the float needle. If worn they will need to be replaced. The brass needle seat usually does not wear out, but then again if someone has installed a gravity seat within one of those two carbs it doesn't matter what you do, it is going to bypass.

If the needles are good and the correct seats are installed then you are down to the o-rings and or possibly a float. If you take the floats off of the carbs, for can float them in s bowl and make sure they all float the same level.

I have all of the carb parts you need listed here, www.RPMracingCa.com.

From complete rebuild kits, to the s/s allen screw & o-ring kit, to the new needle & seats.

Andy did a great write up showing the breakdown of the carbs and the problem areas; http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=4281.0

All six (6) hose are supposed to rundown the right/rear portion of the motor towards the ground to remove the chance of fire on the hot engine if there is a leak.

Randy - RPM

[GoofyLeo3]

Replacement fuel pump was a used unit off a 2000 YZF600, per suggestion of this forum. Only problem was that the YZF unit has 3/8" barbs as opposed to the FJ's smaller ones, so I had to do some splicing. Otherwise, it pumps up, then shuts off as it should... then starts again as I try to start the bike, leading to the left vent pouring out fuel. At least NOW I know why I ended up with a crankcase full of a gas & oil mix from my last go at this. ... the gas spewing from the left vent was getting sucked into the airbox, and went right into the oil via the crankcase breather hose.
Tomorrow I'll be yanking the carbs off, checking O-rings, floats and needles, and re-routing all the vents and drains properly. 

[andyb]

Sounds like float needles not sealing, float height set waaaaay out of whack, or (most likely, and by a large margin) the orings around the float needle seats are  probably crapped out.

Needle seat o-rings.  Stock is 7mm ID by 1.5mm X-section, but I use a slightly larger 7.1mm ID by 1.6mm X-section

from Mr. SOG.

If you haven't replaced those in awhile, and don't have nice SS hardware in your carbs, just buy this and it'll fix both problems.  Probably the best mod I ever did to my FJ.

[GoofyLeo3]

Mirrors ordered. 
When I'm done with morning coffee & radio... my ass is going in the basement to dive into the FJ carbs....again....but this time with KNOWLEDGE! 

[SlowOldGuy]

Is it a small seeping leak, or a gusher?  If it's just seeping, then it could be needle seat o-rings.  If it's a gusher leak, then it's a stuck float or trash keeping the float needle from seating.  Sometimes, after the carbs have been cleaned or have no fuel in them, the initial fill-up will cause a gusher leak.  Usually waiting a few minutes then cycling the key will stop it.

I hate to pick nits, but:
Randy if you read this, the screw size listed for the needle seat retainer plate is wrong in your description (last item listed in Bag#1).  It is listed as 3mm, in actuality it's a 4mm (M4x6mm to be exact).

DavidR.
(not that I'm OCD or anything)

[GoofyLeo3]

Gusher. 

[racerrad8]

I hate to pick nits, but:
Randy if you read this, the screw size listed for the needle seat retainer plate is wrong in your description (last item listed in Bag#1).  It is listed as 3mm, in actuality it's a 4mm (M4x6mm to be exact).

DavidR.
(not that I'm OCD or anything)

No worries,there are thousands of words & descriptions I have manually entered in the database for the website and I am sure there are plenty of mistake. I come across them as I conduct the daily business and change them as I see them.

Your, and everyone else who advise of issues they come across help me out a lot.

It has been corrected.

Thanks, Randy - RPM

[andyb]

Actually, come to think of it, before you start tearing the carbs too heavily down, give everything a bit of a tapping.  Possibly a float is just stuck in the down position, isn't an uncommon problem, doubly so when you're starting with carbs that were dry for any length of time.

[GoofyLeo3]

Too late for that! I'm ass-deep into them. 
And this wonderful blended gas crap left me with some jello in the bowls. But I know this isn't the main problem because with surgerically clean carbs from round 1, I still had the same problem as I'm dealing with now.
Soooo...... how the hell do I get these float needle seats out? Twist and pull? 'Cause they are putting up a fight and I'm worried about collapsing them.

[GoofyLeo3]

AND.... are all the main jets supposed to be at the same height? My #'s 4 & 2 stick way out, #1 sticks out halfway and #3 is flush.
Found out float needle #2 is hosed, although all the rubber tips seem fine. Still haven't removed their seats, however. Grrrrr!!