Good article on saving the bacon in a turn

[Klavdy]

Dan is absolutely correct and anyone who disagrees is , well, deluded.
They need to go to somewhere like California Superbike School and take it up with the experts.

[RichBaker]

As usual Dan, you like personal attacks because that is all you can muster with your abilities.

OK Terry,

First off, I have to say that you put the 1st shot across Dan's bow on this. It was you who attacked him first. No one was talking to you about this and Dan's advise was valid. So why this attack on Dan out of you?

I have watched you 2 spar over the debt, how we American's should be taxed and what the liberal media has "spewed" upon us, and I do not agree with you on any of your points.

And now, without anyone saying anything to you personally attack Dan on the issue of riding skills. To say Dan has personally "attacked" you, is way over the line.

I know there is no use arguing with you about my personal feelings about how the government should be run as you are so lost in the liberal spin, it's not even worth it. I could go on, but as from the first sentence, what's the point.

Good day,

CraigO

Right on, Craig!! Terry is a little full of himself, and likes to talk out his ass sometimes......  especially on this subject.

[Tengu]

Im a small fellow, say around 80kg on a heavy day... the FJ is around 260kg +/- fuel weight and sometimes pillion
Even taking into consideration the engineering physics of my weight on the pegs (positioned below and behind the centre of gravity of the bike), how the hell am I supposed to really affect the movement of the bike considering centripital forces of the moving wheels???

Experientially, my weight on the pegs does sweet bugger all, and even less when compared to counter steering

Body positioning has a much bigger affect on the bike than weighting on the pegs, tho putting weight on the pegs allows for easier body position changes (using leg muscles rather than arms to move about), using my knees to grip make it much easier to keep my upper body weight off the handlebars and position my body correctly (allowing for better control of the counter steer)

Leaning the body really doesnt steer the bike much at all... but what body positioning does is changes the physics of the downward and sideward forces of the bike (tyres) onto the road, by moving the combined centre of gravity of the bike and rider; this is why the superbike racers body shift (to corner faster, not to steer). However just getting into the knee down position on the bike wont steer it very efficiently around a corner (if at all) - if you think it does then you might need to realise that moving sideways will pull your opposing hand back on the handle bars (which is counter steering!).
The only way to get the bike into a position where the knee down body position makes a difference is by using the counter steer method to turn in.

It takes a lot of technique(s) to control a motorcycle, but at the top of the list is definitely counter steering.

I cant believe that this is being discussed (argued) on a forum of mostly experienced riders.
(Unless it was being discussed (not argued) for the benefit of inexperienced riders)
I cant believe an experienced rider would undervalue the effect of counter steering!

[Marsh White]

Leaning the body really doesnt steer the bike much at all... but what body positioning does is changes the physics of the downward and sideward forces of the bike (tyres) onto the road, by moving the combined centre of gravity of the bike and rider; this is why the superbike racers body shift (to corner faster, not to steer). However just getting into the knee down position on the bike wont steer it very efficiently around a corner (if at all) - if you think it does then you might need to realise that moving sideways will pull your opposing hand back on the handle bars (which is counter steering!).
The only way to get the bike into a position where the knee down body position makes a difference is by using the counter steer method to turn in.

Just to clarify one thing: leaning/hanging off the bike - knee down, etc. accomplishes one thing only - it allows you to keep the bike further upright than if you didn't - allowing you to take the corner faster before you run out of tire/grip.  It is about speed.  That is all. 

[FJmonkey]

Just to clarify one thing: leaning/hanging off the bike - knee down, etc. accomplishes one thing only - it allows you to keep the bike further upright than if you didn't - allowing you to take the corner faster before you run out of tire/grip.  It is about speed.  That is all. 

Good point, maybe a street vs track thing. On the track 100%+ is needed to win, street, you need some slop to deal with the less than predictable crap that happens. I agree that moving your body weight helps the bike while leaned over. I also have saved my own ass more than once by remembering to counter steer (front brakes in effect) when entering a corner way too hot for comfort and not losing it. Use your body, use your brakes, counter steer, pray to you almighty, it helps in some fashion.

[rktmanfj]

I cant believe that this is being discussed (argued) on a forum of mostly experienced riders.

Not too many people arguing against that I see, just one particularly windy one for the most part...   

I also have saved my own ass more than once by remembering to counter steer (front brakes in effect) when entering a corner way too hot for comfort and not losing it. Use your body, use your brakes, counter steer, pray to you almighty, it helps in some fashion.

Best to get the front braking out of the way before the turn-in.  Doing both at the same time is a good way to end up on the deck.  Use the rear brake, sparingly.   

[Lotsokids]

Im a small fellow, say around 80kg on a heavy day...

Seems every day for me is a "heavy" day.

[ELIMINATOR]

I feel like a civilian having accidentally entered a war zone

[Tengu]

Just to clarify one thing: leaning/hanging off the bike - knee down, etc. accomplishes one thing only - it allows you to keep the bike further upright than if you didn't - allowing you to take the corner faster before you run out of tire/grip.  It is about speed.  That is all. 

Marsh, thank you for making it clearer - that's exactly what I meant

[terryk]

I know i am new and only have been riding since July but in training class that was taught by CHP instructors was counter steering is the best way for cornering this link i think explains it the best. even the veterans in the course said they did it and did not realize that this is what they were doing. hope this helps if not sorry for my 2 cents

Don't apologize, your input is every bit as welcome and valuable as others.  Your CHP instructors, and the the folks in the link I posted, and most rational people in the civilized word are all in agreement; counter steering contributes principally, -but not exclusively, (best olive branch I can offer Terry) to changing the direction of a motorcycle at speeds in excess of +/- 20mph.

I believe the link I posted talks about at length, if not proves, fairly conclusively that the dominant input on changing the direction of a motorcycle is counter steering.

If it were not, then everyone who rode that No BS motorcycle, or at least someone, would have been able to steer it with the fixed bars.  Fact is no one could, not even an ex racer/ current instructor or a motorcycle magazine editor.  The conclusion to draw from this is clear: the dominant input on changing the direction of a motorcycle is counter steering. 

For clarity, I do believe that to turn smoothly, and especially at race speeds, the rider's body must move around on the bike through the corners.  weighting the inside peg, dropping the inside shoulder, and dropping a but cheek off the seat seems to add stability, and yes, smoothness to turns.  In fact I regularly do these things (never said I didn't).   

However I am under no illusions, my original, unwavering point remains, doing all of these so called, "body steering techniques" without counter steering, will categorically NOT be effective at turning a motorcycle.  Whereas doing none of them and only counter steering, WILL change the direction of the motorcycle, if not smoothly, effectively. 

The conclusion to draw from this is clear: the dominant (but not only!) input on changing the direction of a motorcycle is counter steering. 

I know Terry will not be able to leave this alone, it's personal for him it seems, but I'm going to do my best to leave this alone from here.  My point has been made many times, and I believe most folks, would agree with me.  That is enough.

Dan
   

Ok, here is the reveal. I just decided to reach out and mess with Dan a bit because......Dan is a retard and has gone out of his way to be offensive to me before and call me names. I cried as I am sensitive and want the world to be better than that.

1) Dan says - I believe the link I posted talks about at length, if not proves, fairly conclusively. Blah, blah, blatrher in a puffed up manner. Oh, that and the I am going to use 50 font move to make sure you really read my important point. What a condescending tard.

2) I would argue against anything Dan says on any given day just to have a go,  because Dan appears to me to be arrogant, self appointed expert in anything in the world. So, sometimes I like to fuck with "experts" onm the world. Yeah, I know childish but true.

3)  If Dan takes upo an issue he quickly wades in with personal attacks appearing to resemble toi some folks to act like a  smug cunt. Now I know refering to Dan as a smug cunt isnot really factual and is having fun in a paradoy like manner in a public forum, but hey If the Taco fits.....Oh, go ahead and call me names back if you must, see if I cry again, please do not, please behave.

So, there you have it. Nothing to see here for everyone else. I was not really looking for comments from others although, although this is a forum. I did want to share a safety article. Lets move on.

[Dan Filetti]

Glad to help you sleep at night terry..

[dudemonster]

Sorry to drop the bomb , but I think you need to leave, Terry. This website was made to have motorcycle discussion, and is not a place for such abhorrent language.    Who thinks we should ban Terry from this group?     

Have a good day. 

[Pat Conlon]

Dudemonster, that ain't gonna happen. Terry's just venting. He knows that Dan is right. Terry's a good guy and so is Dan.

Now, who are you?    Great first post.

[The General]

  Had ta ride Pillion on a mates (BMW1150) recently. (To the Phillip Island races) and realised just how great a back rest is. (esp when using a camera). So I bought her one. - Most were too expensive so found it cheaper ta buy another FJ with one fitted already. .............I explained (and she believed) that I got it cheap because of some fault in the front end where the PO accidently installed the forks upside down.  .....Anyhow I was explaining the knowledge I had gained from the forum about countersteering when she stopped me in mid conversation with the realisation that she`s ahead of the rest on left handers and that all my expletives were worthy of an apology.  ..............Ya see, she likes to keep an eye on the oncoming traffic (which of course is on the Right hand side over here) and she has always found it difficult to see when I`m leaning inta a lefthander, soooo......she just leans out further  ....which of course is countersteering  ..... We make a great team.   

[terryk]

Sorry to drop the bomb , but I think you need to leave, Terry. This website was made to have motorcycle discussion, and is not a place for such abhorrent language.    Who thinks we should ban Terry from this group?     

Have a good day. 

Why do you just ban yourself whoever you are.

Go away and never return.

Or, come back the language is within site rules bucko. Go mind your own fucking business.