OIL LEAK PROBLEM - WHICH GASKET

[FJTillDeath]

This is in connection with the (i think ive blown a gasket thread) dealing only with the oil leak.

As I said my name is Jesse, for Dan who wanted to know. And for others the username is supposed to be FJ-TILL-DEATH

Back to the oil leak. I took pics which will post shortly.

First, the symptons:
   On the Saturday morning I noticed that there was a little bit of oil which leaked out from somewhere inside the bike. I asked my gfs dad who said I had probably blown a gasket somewhere. I took it to the dealer on Monday who had it for the day taking it apart to see where the oil leak came from and came back to me saying the bike was 'sweating'
   As cleared up by the forum members there should be no such thing.
   The dealer told me if I wanted peace of mind it would take a 12hour job to fix as when you work on the bottom end you often destroy components of the bike and have to replace the whole thing.
   Anyway, since the Saturday I have yet to notice anymore oil leaking at all from the bike, so I am not sure if this is an actual leak or if the bike did just decide to "sweat" things off after my ride on the friday evening.

I did however take the bike apart last night and take some pictures and found where I think the source of the initial leak came from.

First here are the series of pictures:

I apoplogise as I had to use my camera so it may not be clear and my engine is far from clean.


This was taken on the Saturday morning when I first saw the leak

The oil had leaked oil the way on to the thing that says "yamaha"

This was taken last night(after the dealer had cleaned the area)

This however I dont think the dealer had seen and this looks like where I think the source of the leak came from. I asked my uncle what the pipe is called and he said it was the timing chain(he may be wrong) and he told me it may also be the reason why I am hearing strange noises from inside the engine. We assume that the gasket in timing chain has blown and may be the reason for the oil leak?
On with more pictures...

Same as above but from the opposite angle

From the top of the engine, this is on the side where the exhaust headers are. It looks like a small piece of metal has been turned up (like if someone were trying to seperate it with a flat skrewdriver. Other than this I saw no visible cracks or dame(other than paint loss) across the entire engine and this place itself had also not been leaking.

This part here looked a little fishy but I assume that the yellow stuff is the sealant? No the part next to it(its at the bottom of the pic with the cable running into it) made me worry a little as it looked a little obscure. Obviously the oil I talk of could not leak from there but it just looked out of place somehow maybe a little bent.

Not a clear pic I know, but I didnt see anything wrong last night

Still no damage

I didnt see any damge here, but with regards to the circled spark plug (not to discuss another problem-just mention what I found) the cable that covers this plug- I noticed its thing inside that holds the coil in place and connects the tip of the plug to the coil had come loose and got stuck to the plug so I decided to skrew it back inside and then problem solved. No real problem and not related but glad I discovered it.

Other side - still no damage and all plugs connected nicely.

Another angle of what I think the route of the problem is.



I asked my brother in law for a second opinion on the timing chain and he too thinks the oil is coming from there and has blown a gasket. I have yet to ask the dealer about this and dont plan on doing it yet either.

Hopefully I have included all the relevant info

Many thanks for all the help I get
Jesse

[andyb]

This however I dont think the dealer had seen and this looks like where I think the source of the leak came from. I asked my uncle what the pipe is called and he said it was the timing chain(he may be wrong) and he told me it may also be the reason why I am hearing strange noises from inside the engine. We assume that the gasket in timing chain has blown and may be the reason for the oil leak?
On with more pictures...

Yes, he's wrong.  A chain doesn't have a gasket.  What that is, is the cam chain tensioner.  That gasket is something you could make in a few minutes with a sheet of gasket material, and it would take perhaps an hour to replace.  The tensioner itself can also go bad, (it's basically a spring-loaded, one-way ratchet that pushes on a guide for the camchain).  Camchain and timing chain are interchangeable terms, incidentally.

This part here looked a little fishy but I assume that the yellow stuff is the sealant? No the part next to it(its at the bottom of the pic with the cable running into it) made me worry a little as it looked a little obscure. Obviously the oil I talk of could not leak from there but it just looked out of place somehow maybe a little bent.

Yes, that appears to be some type of sealant applied to the gasket there.  The other piece you're seeing looks like a wiring clip, to retain the wiring so that you don't get it caught when doing oil changes.


Ok, to replace the timing chain entirely, you pull the engine to utter bits and it's major work, and you really should put new guides in and blah blah blah.  Yes, the chain is likely stretched, and you can get some performance changes (the cams go retarded relative to the engine) from it, eventually it'll snap and destroy shit.  I wouldn't worry about it though, as that's not what you're seeing here.  Chains don't have gaskets and cannot leak.  (O+X ring chains aside, stfu.)

You appear to need a camchain tensioner gasket and possibly a camchain tensioner.  If you then were to pull the valve cover off, you could also see how far the timing of the cams had drifted.  With slotted cam sprockets, you could restore the timing to factory stock.


The top of your motor looks pretty dusty.  Oil should show up easily there, and I'm not seeing much, so the cam cap seals are maybe okay!  There is still a chance that you have a leak in the valve cover gasket above the tensioner, however.

The heavy duty cylinder stud nuts that you were asking about prior--in the photo of the sparkplug with a circle on it, you can see what those nuts would replace.  There are short, closed-headed nuts in that picture, 6 visible (two on the right are cut off a bit), and they're quite rusty.  Those are the cylinder head nuts.  It wouldn't be a terrible idea to check the torque on all 12 of them if you have the proper tools to do it, but it doesn't seem to be a problem at this point for you.

[FJTillDeath]

Wow Thanks Andy that was a great reply and the overall price for everything (minus the slotted cam tensioners) are quite reasonable.

Just to make sure that I understand correctly though. My chain may be stretched but I should not focus on that now? I need the cam tensioner gasket and the tensioner and to replace that will be a very big job involving pulling the engine apart?

However my main priority in terms of the oil leak are the valve cover gaskets? This is the most likely place for the oil to leak out from? (sweat if the dealer terms it so).

How would I go about putting the gaskets (the valve cover ones) in? Would I also have to completely disassemble the engine?

Lastly just to tie up with the exhaust headers - the noise from the engine/ headers is not related to the oil problem I am currently experiencing?

Once again thanks for making things clear as daylight. Obviously there are still some unknowns as far as the process for such procedures, but I will ask in due time when I actually have the gaskets. I first have to sort out currency issues and such and also decide between the headers and gaskets (will only be able to afford one or the other at a time

[oldktmdude]

  Before you spend any money on parts, buy yourself a workshop manual. It will give you a good understanding of exactly what is involved with doing any of this work. You may even learn what some of the parts are called. It will save you alot of money in the long term and also help you properly explain to your forum members, any other problems that you may encounter. Before you ask; ebay.   Pete.

[Arnie]

Just to make sure that I understand correctly though. My chain may be stretched but I should not focus on that now? I need the cam tensioner gasket and the tensioner and to replace that will be a very big job involving pulling the engine apart?

Go to #1.

However my main priority in terms of the oil leak are the valve cover gaskets? This is the most likely place for the oil to leak out from? (sweat if the dealer terms it so).

How would I go about putting the gaskets (the valve cover ones) in? Would I also have to completely disassemble the engine?

Go to #2.
   
Lastly just to tie up with the exhaust headers - the noise from the engine/ headers is not related to the oil problem I am currently experiencing?

Go to #3.

Once again thanks for making things clear as daylight. Obviously there are still some unknowns as far as the process for such procedures, but I will ask in due time when I actually have the gaskets.

Go to #4.

1. NO!  What AndyB said was, Your cam chain may be stretched but to not focus on that.
You need to replace the camchain tensioner gasket and maybe the camchain tensioner.
To replace these you need an hour or so. 
IF you were going to replace the cam chain you would have to pull the engine apart.

2. To replace the valve cover gasket you would have to remove the tank, and those 8 bolts on top of the valve cover.  You would also have to move the throttle and choke cables out of the way, probably by disconnecting them from the carbs.  You would then have to thoroughly clean the joint surface of the valve cover and the head where the gasket sits.  Put the new gasket in place on the valve cover (held on with a few dabs of grease) and re-install it.  Be careful to not over-tighten the valve cover bolts.

3. Correct

4. GET A SHOP MANUAL !!  There may be one in the files here.  Or get a Yamaha Service Manual, or a Haynes or a Clymer Service Manual.  They all have some problems, but will help you (and us) immensly.

Arnie

[andyb]

Correct.  Camchains stretch, not a big deal.  Means that your cam timing is retarded a few degrees is all.

The oil looks like a valve cover gasket and tensioner gasket.  Pull the tank, pull the valve cover, pull the carbs (much easier to get the tensioner off then).  Easily doable inside an afternoon.  The engine will stay together, other than pulling the cover off.

The exhaust problem is separate from the oil leak.

A GYSM is incredibly helpful for doing this stuff.

[FJTillDeath]

OKay so I got an update.

First of all thanks to everyone who have made my life easier.

I took the bike to 2 other bike shops (telling them I would just like a second opinion on what another deal has told me). I showed both of the dealers the bike and both under a quick inspection of the oil leak told me my cam chain tensioner gasket had blown and would be easy to replace as well as cheap. I asked both if it was possibly the valve cover gaskets and they said judging by the amount of oil - no, but I was more than welcome to replace them I felt need be.

One thing i must make clear of quickly. I previously said the bike had stopped leaking and it looked like a once off thing. On sauturday I took the bike on the highway and pushed the engine a little bit just to 110miles for a few minutes. I then smelt fresh burning oil although not much(thiis was before I had taken it to the dealers) and sure enough when I parked the bike I saw a tiny little bit of fresh oil coming exactly from where the cam chain tensioner gasket is said to be.

Anyway, I also then discovered what the mysterious "sweat" the previous dealer spoke of was. I took a pic and will post it now shortly. But basically as it was shown and explained to me, there was a tiny amount of oil that had sweated out from between the top of the engine seals in the right corner. Hardly noticeable at all really. Both dealers explained to me that because it was plastic inbetween metal it didnt work too well and when the bike got exceptionally hot (from racing and the crappy exhaust problem I have) it may cause the bike to sweat a minimal amount of oil. I asked them if I should worry and they said no as I would only waste my time and money trying to repair it. They also told me that I didnt need to worry about the cam chain tensioner gasket as I could ride the bike between services without the leak afecting the bike much at all.

I however told them I wanted peace of mind and that there was nothing wrong with that.

Here are the pics

This is where I am told the bike is sweating from. Not really visible with the naked eye and feels powdery to the touch(probably from the dust on the engine)

From afar of the above pic just incase the top aint clear.

[img]http://fjowners.com/gallery/2/1788_26_09_11_1_44_10.jpeg[img]
And the source of the leak as taken on Saturday

Both dealers told me the original dealer was trying to get out of work and would be more than happy enough to help me if I wasnt sure although told me it was a job that a novice could do.

Just for final opinion I took a visit to my brother who delas a lot with mechanic(mainly on cars) but still knows a bit about bikes. He agreed that the gasket on the tensioner had blown and could be repaired with any gasket material like valenoid. He agreed that the bikes "sweat " wasnt anything to worry about. He told me by the way things looked and the way I had described the bike only really leaked and oil when it was running excessively hot.

So as the conclusion, it looks like I will be ordering some tensioner gaskets from Randy (soon as I figure out how to use foreign exchange) and then next month it will be the valve cover gaskets just for final peace of mind. The exhaust on the other hand...{see other thread}

Thanks to evrybody for the advice and to Andy for the links, I tried using Randys web adress but it kept redirecting me. It seems my original dealer was correct about the sweat, although they either overlooked the camchain or just didnt feel like the work. I have been searching for some manuals but all in all they work out quite expensive on ebay with the shipping. I do however have a local online dealer and a coupon so I just need to wait for them to get in stock again.

Thanks again for all your time and I will keep everybody updated when I have the problem sorted

[RichBaker]

That "sweat" is your RUBBER cam cover gasket leaking.....        

The reason it's getting hot is because the side air scoops are missing..... the scoops which direct cooling air onto the top of the head.   

[FJTillDeath]

That "sweat" is your RUBBER cam cover gasket leaking.....        

The reason it's getting hot is because the side air scoops are missing..... the scoops which direct cooling air onto the top of the head.   

I realise that and have been trying to find replacement ones. EBAY has nothing yet, the original dealer wants to charge me 3000rand(about 500$)

The guy I found who can make something similar says he needs a mould and will charge me half what my dealer is charging me(still cant find a mould)

So until EBay helps me out with something MUCH cheaper than both I will have to survive(dont seem to be having problems and never used to until the thing with the exhaust came up) although I still want to get them

[FJTillDeath]

But thanks for clearing that up for me Rich, I will alert the dealer(i told them before but probably not correctly)

[racerrad8]

Thanks to evrybody for the advice and to Andy for the links, I tried using Randys web adress but it kept redirecting me.

www.RPMracingCa.com

Use this link and it will take you there; where you can find all of the gaskets you need to stop your oil leaks.

Randy - RPM

[SlowOldGuy]

You'll have to glue the new scoops on since one of the mounting holes has been sawed off.

Go to page 6 of the bike photos Gallery, scroll to the bottom row of pics, and look at the picture in the bottom left position.  That's how it should look.

Looks like the fairing was damaged at some point and someone cut it off the lower portion where the scoop(s) normally mount.

In that second pic, the tab with the hole hanging down fromt he fairing is the remaining mounting hole for a scoop, the other one is missing.  The rear of the fairing should have a second mounting bolt on the main fame rail.  At the front, the fairing used to wrap around the front of the frame tube and attach to that tang pointing forward out from the frame rail.

In other words, don't waste a lot of money on scoops that you can't mount.

DavidR.

[FJTillDeath]

Thanks Randy for the link, have saved it to my browser history and thanks David for the scoop advice. I dont feel too safe gluing scoops on, but if I maybe join a new mointing spot or make my own and just use a stud that should be fine shouldnt it? Like I said I never had a problem before with the top cam leaking even in the hottest weather, its only now that the exhaust has acted up. Still searching for a pair of scoops or even a mould for one. I saw another FJ in my city, but he had already pulled off from the opposite robot, was riding a 1200 the silver/grey and blue one with that manly pink street

If I ever see him again I'll tail him and ask if he can assist me

[FJTillDeath]

@ Randy, just as quick question. I recently asked Andy what I would need to convert my 1100 to the 1349cc. I asked my local dealer roughly how much they would charge me and they qouted me at 20000rand(I think about 3000$) does this sound accurate? If I had to get all the neccasaries from you how much would it roughly cost? Obviously for the time being I cant get it but I would like to know what kind of goal I am setting myself. Thanks

Jesse

[racerrad8]

Jesse,
      That is in the parking lot of the ball park...With that said there are a lot of hard parts from the 1100 that will not be able to adapted to a 1350, plus there are several parts that need to be upgraded to late model parts.

Shoot me an email and we can start to break it down over time, but $3000.00 has gotten you the the ball park.

Randy - RPM
randy@rpmracingca.com