Carb Overflow Issues

[FJmonkey]

....... I used... por-15... to seal the inside of my tank,.... No more carb. problems    LOL

See.....the rust thing brings out the snake oil and other assorted fixes. The snake oil might actually work so I quietly sneak out the back door. 

[Arnie]

Slick,

What you're calling "primary" position on the petcock is actually the "PRIME" position.  This is NOT the position you should be running with.  It is really only to fill the float bowls after working on the carbs.  You should be keeping it in the RUN or ON position.  In this position the manifold vacuum of the engine will open the petcock to flow fuel and it will stop it from flowing when the engine is not running.
Note: These petcocks sometimes do have problems caused by tears or holes in the internal diaphram which prevent them from opening or other sealing problems which prevent them shutting off.

Your overflowing carbs are probably being caused by rust or other crap holding the float needle off the seat.  You can sometimes correct this by gently tapping on the side of the offending carb, but you really need to clean the carb  and seal the rust in  the tank.

You need to remove the tank and drain it.  Then put a handful of small steel nuts (1/4" nuts are good) and a cup or two of fuel.  Shake vigorously to get all the loose rust off the interior surface of the tank.  Remove the nuts and flaked rust (use a magnet).  Rinse the tank with fuel and then put some "Rust Converter" (get it at your local hardware store) in.  Swish it all around for a while.  Drain it, and flush with fuel again twice.  Now, put your serviced or new petcock back on the tank, re-install, fill with fuel and go ride. 
Keeping the tank full if the bike is not being used, will help keep it from rusting again.

Arnie

Tank will drain overnight. Last night I played with the valve, I changed it from primary to halfway in the middle of the other setting, I dont know the point of the other setting but it didnt leak. But before I ever did that, nothing stopped it from draining the whole tank

How do I clean this tank of rust? Please dont tell me I have to get a new tank because this one was just painted to match the bike. I would hate to loose this fresh $1600 paint job. Can someone give me their best recommendations and the cost...The rust is visible when looking in the tank from the cap. I cant tell how bad it is else where. Also where can I get a gas cap? Or is that a new tank?

In addition to my last post. The bike was running REAL HOT on the way home, and it was only 68-70F outside.

[RichBaker]

Tank will drain overnight. Last night I played with the valve, I changed it from primary to halfway in the middle of the other setting, I dont know the point of the other setting but it didnt leak. But before I ever did that, nothing stopped it from draining the whole tank

How do I clean this tank of rust? Please dont tell me I have to get a new tank because this one was just painted to match the bike. I would hate to loose this fresh $1600 paint job. Can someone give me their best recommendations and the cost...The rust is visible when looking in the tank from the cap. I cant tell how bad it is else where. Also where can I get a gas cap? Or is that a new tank?

In addition to my last post. The bike was running REAL HOT on the way home, and it was only 68-70F outside.

PRI means PRIME, not primary.... it bypasses the vacuum and flows fuel continuously, to fill empty float bowls without draining the battery. For normal running, you want to be in one of the other positions. One is RES(erve), I don't recall what the other is marked. That is part of the fuel draining problem, the other 1/2 is most likely the float needle seat orings need to be replaced, they get hard and cracked and let fuel seep past....

[carsick]

Tank will drain overnight.

The bike was running REAL HOT on the way home, and it was only 68-70F outside.

Um, drain to where? The ground or into your motor? Is your oil level rising?
And unless you have a temp gauge, wondering how you know how hot is real hot? Not saying you're wrong, just want to put a number on it to help, or maybe compare it to another bike?
Doug

[Slick]

Tank will drain overnight.

The bike was running REAL HOT on the way home, and it was only 68-70F outside.

Um, drain to where? The ground or into your motor? Is your oil level rising?
And unless you have a temp gauge, wondering how you know how hot is real hot? Not saying you're wrong, just want to put a number on it to help, or maybe compare it to another bike?
Doug

The tank would drain to the ground from the carb overflow hoses. I cant say if my oil level is rising but I can say within the last 2-3 rides it has turned black. FYI 2 rides ago I cleaned the carbs. Its real hot to me because it started to make me sweat and you could feel the heat coming off it even after a 15min cruise (straight 55mph in 5th) and then stopped at a light. I mean it felt like it was burnin up. Even the gas tank was getting hot, and there was a cool breeze with no sun. Something just didnt feel right thats all I'm saying. To put a number on it? The heat coming up at me sitting on the bike felt like 200-250+ ( dont flame me for the temp, I'm just expressing my feelings)

Off to work..I will be at it tomorrow.

Oh and thanks for sheding light onto the peacock valve. I was told to ride it on PR, because it meant Primary and the other was for Reserve. Oh well now I know and already changed it. Could that have anything to do with the issues I have been having? Anything?

[Dan Filetti]

....thanks for shedding light onto the petcock valve. I was told to ride it on PR, because it meant Primary and the other was for Reserve. Oh well now I know and already changed it. Could that have anything to do with the issues I have been having? Anything?

Ostensibly, the needle seat should prevent the overflow into the float bowl, and onto the floor, but if it's held away by rust particles then it will continue to allow gas into the float bowl until it overflows onto the floor.  Leaving the petcock on PRI allows the gas to flow unabated so yes, this is one of your issues for sure.  

If the petcock is functioning properly (and not on PRI) then it will stop flowing gas when the motor is shut off.  You may still have a puddle, but it will not be the entire contents of the tank. If it's a big puddle still, then you need to re-build/ replace the petcock, clean the rust from the tank, and clean and sync the carbs one more time (including replacing the needle seat o-rings) and you should be good to go.  Adjusting your fuel level would not hurt either.

As for the hot motor, not sure, maybe your running very lean, which would account for a hotter running motor.  To check this, read your plugs.  what color are they?  If they are white/ light gray, you're likely running too lean.

Good luck

Dan  

[Slick]

Just wondering. Is there any chance that the carbs overflowed enough to drain into the cyl and then down into the oil? I just picked up some Valvoline Race Oil 20-50W, it was on sale. $2.50 a quart, I got 9 so I hope I like it. I also went to buy feeler gauges so I could check my valve clearances but I didnt know which one to buy. What measurements do I need? The gauges go .402 and the next is like .483 and so forth. What is the best tool to check them (maybe a link to one so I can get an idea of what to look for?) Autozone has a valve checker feeler gauge.

[Dan Filetti]

Take a sample of and smell your oil.  If it smells like fuel, then you need to replace -fairly simple.

[Arnie]

Yamaha quotes metric sizes for valve clearance .11-.15mm for intake, and .15-.20 for exhausts.

This translates to .004 - .006" for intakes and .006 - .008" for exhaust.  So, a set of feelers that has 4,5,6,7,8 thousandths is fine. 

You don't want to set the valves at the minimum clearance as they'll close up during use.  If possible, set the valves so the .005 fits through, but the .006 does not on the intakes and the .007 fits through, but the .008 does not on the exhaust valves.

Cheers,
Arnie

[Slick]

OK here is a little update to the bikes condition.

Once I changed the peacock lever position the carbs stopped overflowing. The weather has warmed up and the bike runs great. At random times during a ride it may have a bit of an unsteady idle, but thats about it as far as running goes. One issue I am having is electrical. For some reason most of the time when it happens, is when the bike has been running for a while then is turned of for a short period (like 10min) and tried to start again. The motor will turn but wont start. So I have to jiggle around the little 3-fuse fuse box located up front and keep trying it until I find the sweet spot for the fuse box and it starts. As soon as it starts its fine, the fuse box then seems to mean nothing. I have checked the connections and I see nothing wrong. Let alone I have NEVER had this problem when first starting the bike for the day. Something about heat seems to make this happen is part of my guess.

About 2wks ago I got new tires front and back. I went with Perreli Sport Demons. I paid like $220 Shipped. I basically went with the Perreli's because I was running an older model Perreli similar to the Sport Demons and was comfortable with them. Keep in mind I am new to riding so I dont know any different when it comes to how a bike should handle but I do like my new tires. The bike feels like it turns in better and its easier to maneuver around. I'm not comfortable enough riding let alone on my bike to be pushing it in the corners, but I can say I felt comfortable getting my lean on enough to get a little toe rub 

I painted my V&H with VHT Flame Proof. I kinda did a half ass job, only put in about 1hr of sanding. It still came out ok, I'm happy with it. It looks soooo much better than rust color oh wait I mean RUST. Now lets see how long it lasts.

Also last night I ordered a new Front Brake light switch since mine only likes to work sometimes...A new speedometer cable because mine broke the other day on the highway while I was um ah,cleaning the top of 3rd gear...And 4 basic carb rebuild kits(bowl gasket, o-rings, and float needle)

Questions:

    * I want to buy a Carb sync unit for after I clean these carbs up real nice. I know I can make one and I'm normally the MacGyver kind of guy to make things, but I want a digital/electronic one. I just have a few things to figure out.
      Are there any recommendations for either the Twinmax or the Carbmate? Please no comments regrading any other devices.

    * The Carbmate I found for $100 does not come with any fittings. Does anyone know what additional items I would need if I purchased that one? I can find 6mm adapters for the Carbmate but dont know what size I need for my bike.

     * How exactly do I sync these carbs? I have a Clymer and I have found a few write ups with no pictures or anything. I'm kinda confused as to how these meters hook up to the bike, where do you start, and what do you adjust?

     * My bike came with a V&H and I dont know if the PO jetted the carbs or not. Is there a way to tell if anything was changed when I have the carbs apart doing the rebuild?


Thanks for everyones help. She is really coming along well. The guy at the shop that put my tires on came back after the test ride and was like "wow, ya got a nice ride there" I was so proud of her. She looks great and runs great for her age.

[andyb]

    * I want to buy a Carb sync unit for after I clean these carbs up real nice. I know I can make one and I'm normally the MacGyver kind of guy to make things, but I want a digital/electronic one. I just have a few things to figure out.
      Are there any recommendations for either the Twinmax or the Carbmate? Please no comments regrading any other devices.

The only thing that I've seen similar was like this and the guy reported good results.  Be warned that he's an idiot at times and I have not personally heard/ridden the bike.  Keeping mouth shut after that, though having made my own synch gauge I can report that it's harder than it looks to really do properly, though it can get you in the ballpark.

* The Carbmate I found for $100 does not come with any fittings. Does anyone know what additional items I would need if I purchased that one? I can find 6mm adapters for the Carbmate but dont know what size I need for my bike.

This goes hand-in-hand with the next question, though I suspect it depends on what is included with the tool.

* How exactly do I sync these carbs? I have a Clymer and I have found a few write ups with no pictures or anything. I'm kinda confused as to how these meters hook up to the bike, where do you start, and what do you adjust?

This explains it as well as it can be explained as far as what to adjust and/or how.  Between the carb bodies and the engine are rubber boots, they look like this.  See the brass tube?  Depending on the year/previous owners, the #2 one should be connected to the ignitor box, and the rest will be capped off.  Remove the caps as well as the long hose going to the ignitor/timing`puterthing, and there's the four vacuum ports that any synch tool (digital, dial, liquid, or morgan) will connect to.  I want to say they're around 1/4 or 5/16 OD, so you'd need rubber tubing of around that ID to slip over the barbs, and whatever is required to adapt to the tool you're using.

* My bike came with a V&H and I dont know if the PO jetted the carbs or not. Is there a way to tell if anything was changed when I have the carbs apart doing the rebuild?

Sure.  Read the stock jet sizes and look at the needle.  An adjustable needle will have multiple places for the "E"-shaped clip to fit into, an OEM US needle will not.  If you find extra shims under it, that's another sign adjustments have been made.  If the main jets are stock sizes, then I'd guess they're pretty stock, yeah?  If you have the V&H SS2R pipe and UNI or K&N pod filters, then here is a post of what's worked for some others of us.  The V&H SS pipe should be similar but likely a size smaller here and there.  For reference, the SS pipe came originally with black headpipes (that turned to rust) and a round cannister, the SS2R pipe came with plated headpipes (that turned to rust, fuck V&H) and an oval cannister.  Further, remember that what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another, as your riding conditions, style, and what you consider "running well" can be at odds with what another person aims for.

(And the morgan carbtune is comparably priced, hugely easy to use, damned effective.  And pretty nigh-on indestructable, short of doing something stupid.  I've got one.  It's expensive, and not only do I not regret it but I understand why everyone raves about them so much.)

[carsick]

Slick, nice update, sounds like you're having some fun to balance out the money and time you're spending! I was going to answer your questions however Andy did it quicker and better.

[rktmanfj]

I'm not comfortable enough riding let alone on my bike to be pushing it in the corners, but I can say I felt comfortable getting my lean on enough to get a little toe rub 

Not the answer to any of your questions, but here goes:  Get your feet back, especially if you are wearing flexible soled shoes, as many newish riders do.  If you get your foot down too hard, it can break and fold back under the footpeg.

Sorry for the threadjack, but I just had to mention this.

Randy T
Indy

[Slick]

I'm not comfortable enough riding let alone on my bike to be pushing it in the corners, but I can say I felt comfortable getting my lean on enough to get a little toe rub 

Not the answer to any of your questions, but here goes:  Get your feet back, especially if you are wearing flexible soled shoes, as many newish riders do.  If you get your foot down too hard, it can break and fold back under the footpeg.

Sorry for the threadjack, but I just had to mention this.

Randy T
Indy

I appreciate your concern but I will have you know that I am doing this wearing these http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-boots/tcx-ss-performance-2-boots/ They have toe sliders.

[rktmanfj]

I'm not comfortable enough riding let alone on my bike to be pushing it in the corners, but I can say I felt comfortable getting my lean on enough to get a little toe rub 

Not the answer to any of your questions, but here goes:  Get your feet back, especially if you are wearing flexible soled shoes, as many newish riders do.  If you get your foot down too hard, it can break and fold back under the footpeg.

Sorry for the threadjack, but I just had to mention this.

Randy T
Indy

I appreciate your concern but I will have you know that I am doing this wearing these http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-boots/tcx-ss-performance-2-boots/ They have toe sliders.

Duly noted.  Sounds like you everything covered.

I apologize again for hijacking your thread... carry on.

Randy T
Indy