Heating your workspace

[giantkiller]

Yah I'm still 62. But I may not make it to 72. Like I said I'm not worried about pay off or even cost. (Although it's way cheaper. Since I'm installing it myself) But I want to have absolutely no bills. So I can retire as soon as I payoff my build loan in 2 years. I only took out $214,000 6years ago.
 But I've done almost all of the work myself. Other than putting up the exterior walls. And I paid a lot out of pocket as I built it. I figured well over $400,000 total. Even with doing all the work myself. Doesn't seem like I got that much house for all that money.   

[Sparky84]

I don't remember it's way less than 1 to 1. I used to produce more than I used so I had zero bills with 10,080 watts of panels. They don't pay out excess. But put it towards your night time usage. They will payout excess when you get off the grid. They have been trying to eliminate net metering for years. There is a renewable energy group that fights them every year. In Wisconsin. And has so far kept them from eliminating it. BUT..

That's great that they put it towards night usage, all they do here is give you Sweet FA for excess and charge full rate for anything after dark you use.

We also get an electricity service charge, so if it "passes" your property you get a bill ... even if you don't want it or use it ..

Great job you've been doing.

[red]

I calculate I would need a 12kw PV system with a 25kWh battery to get me through the cloudy days and a 4kw propane generator backup....all in all about $32k investment.
Alas....Pay off would be too long for me as I'm 72....

Pat,

I don't follow PV systems much, but I hear they are improving in output and costs.
Check out the prices for the NEW sodium battery systems by Alsym Energy, and maybe Peak Energy.  Sodium (Natrium or NA) is cheap and plentiful (think table salt), and performance is now equal or better than Lithium batteries. Much cheaper, and safer, too.
A smaller generator, running when cloudy and before it is really needed, may be able to do what you need, especially if you cut your needs using LED lights and similar upgrades.
The lower battery prices may let you use a larger battery pack, eliminating the need for any generator.
I posted earlier in this thread for making a wildly effective solar heating collector. It is mostly tin cans and metal wall-studs, with a sheet metal bottom and glass on top. A few of those, mounted below the elevation of your house, would need no power and give a lot of free heat, reducing the demands (if any) on the standard furnace.
My US$ 0.02 worth . . . 
.

[giantkiller]

They are making improvements in sodium batteries. But they still are down on cycle life. And charge density. They take up a lot more space. But that doesn't really matter as much for stationary/ home batteries. I was really interested in sodium batteries. When first looking into solar 8 years ago. There was a company that was already selling them back then. They only lasted a few years. Before closing up shop. I think  the only thing holding me back on them. Is cycle life. If they can improve alot on that. They could take over stationary batteries. Charge density is never going to get them into EVs. Which is where all the really big research and development money is. Let's just hope I'm wrong. They are way safer and like you said salt is everywhere. And recycling a salt based battery is a no-brainer easy.

[giantkiller]

I made a couple of different types of solar air based heaters blacked out metal panel. First one was soda cans. Second corrugated  steel painted black. They are super easy and cheap to make. But here in wisconsin -20f occasionally for weeks at a time. Didn't really do too much. But by Pat. They might be all you would need.

[giantkiller]

My house/shop is all led from the get go. Super insulated with thermal break. Cold climate ERV system. Infloor heating all 3400 sqft. Geothermal heating and cooling. Like I said I want to make sure I don't have to compromise. Or have to turn anything off/ down . if I don't want to. And go off grid. So I don't have any bills whatsoever. So I can retire. Only set bills I'll have to worry about going up are sewer and water, taxes, and insurance.

[giantkiller]

My house/shop is all led from the get go. Super insulated with thermal break. Cold climate ERV system. Infloor heating all 3400 sqft. Geothermal heating and cooling. Like I said I want to make sure I don't have to compromise. Or have to turn anything off if I don't want to. And go off grid. So I don't have any bills whatsoever. So I can retire. Only set bills I'll have to worry about going up are sewer and water, taxes, and insurance.



Don't know why double posted. But if someone can delete this would be great
Thanks.

[red]

They are making improvements in sodium batteries. But they still are down on cycle life. And charge density. They take up a lot more space. But that doesn't really matter as much for stationary/ home batteries. I was really interested in sodium batteries. When first looking into solar 8 years ago. There was a company that was already selling them back then. They only lasted a few years. Before closing up shop. I think  the only thing holding me back on them. Is cycle life. If they can improve alot on that. They could take over stationary batteries.

giantkiller,
I agree, on the OLD sodium batteries, but these ain't them:
New tech sodium batteries
Twenty year/ 10,000 cycle service life.
.

[giantkiller]

Thank you Red. That would be awesome. I hope they make it.
Their goal is to start mass production in 2027. Which will first be utility scale batteries container sized batteries. They have only made prototypes. Their claimed energy is close to that of lithium iron phosphate. But still bellow. Lithium iron only being used. In EVs in lower range vehicles. The cycle and life of them is still theoretical. Their high charge discharge rate is what was wrong with the first companies sodium batteries. The discharge d too quickly. I would assume that they could control it some how now. Fast charge rate is awesome. Let's hope for the future. That they actually make it. And don't just get destroyed by the Chinese battery companies.