Starter slow on hot starts.

[Ted Schefelbein]

I was thinking the sealed battery was feeling it's age, it has been in the bike since I bought it, four years ago, but, I still get slow starter revolutions when the bike is hot. Filled it with gas today after bringing it home with the new battery, same symptom as last fall.
I have pulled car starters apart, cleaned the mess out of them, replaced brushes, and lubed the drive and whatnot over the years, does a 34 year old FJ starter typically need to be serviced?

Thanks in advance,
Ted

[RPM - Robert]

Does the starter had a large head JIS screw on the main body? If so you have a 2 brush starter. They turn the motor over with difficulty when hot.

Pick up a couple Chinese ebay starters. They are 4 brush and will crank much better when hot. I have seen several grenade though so best to carry a spare if going on a long trip. Luckily they are cheap enough compared to the 4 brush Yamaha starter.

[Ted Schefelbein]

I am loath to buy anything Chinese unless cornered. I am loath to replace any factory FJ parts, if they are rebuildable. Rebuild kits are available for the two brush starter, my thinking is the task seems simple enough (I don't have to crawl under a car to get it out, anyway) and maybe a freshening with new brushes and bearings, and cleaning the years of use out of the case, would improve, if not eliminate the slowness at hot start.
The problem isn't there when the bike is cold. It isn't like the starter on my buddies Virago, I always wonder if we are going to get home with that one.

Ted

[fj1289]

Well, I was going to recommend you contact Paul Cashio about his "super starter" mod - but, while searching for his website I discovered he passed away in 2021. That sucks

Also - at least you have the option to push start if it comes to that. 

[Ted Schefelbein]

Park on a hill? I think I will try the starter rebuild, low buck and worth a try.

Ted

[gdfj12]

Ted, if you can find a later model FJ (or XJR) 4-pole starter, they are bolt on and crank much better. I've got one on my '89 and it's wonderful. I've got w more I found to go on my 87' and other '89 when I get to getting them running.

[Pat Conlon]

Buy Yamaha. I've learned my lesson with eBay Chinese fuel pumps....Oh But wait! They have a "lifetime warranty".
Bullshit.

[Ted Schefelbein]

Pat,
We went to the same school. And, the same pretty corner of Wisconsin, a few years past.
Do the starters turn up used? How about a part number?
Thanks for the heads up.

Ted

[Pat Conlon]

Buy from RPM, you know you'll be getting oem Yamaha. You roll the dice on fleaBay

[Ted Schefelbein]

Back ordered at RPM. The price is a bit, ahem, breathtaking, I get it, but, it doesn't matter how much it costs if you can't get it anyway.

That is the bad news.

The good news, is, a Yamaha dealer in Germany had a NOS XJR1300 starter on hand, and with tax, shipping, insurance and lord knows what else, it came out to well under $200.

I looked at a few used XJR starters, and with new brushes, shipping, and the other stuff, it was going to be $100 or more to put a used one on the bike. There are many FJ starters for sale, but, they are the earlier two brush versions, same thing I have.

I'll post how it all shakes out.

Ted

[Pat Conlon]

Nice score Ted! Makes sense, XJR's were very popular in Europe.

[aviationfred]

I am going to throw a wrench in this thread.     

Something else to consider, the Starter Solenoid.

Years ago, (2016) after I did the 1297cc engine build. I had the exact same issues. I removed the starter, cleaned everything, installed a 2 brush rebuild kit and off I went. The starter would spin the motor like nobodies business. BUT..... a short time later, the Hot start issue returned. I dealt with it for about 6 months before the bike finally decided it was done starting while hot.
In the course of investigating the cause. I discovered that the Starter solenoid was intermittent when hot. A new OEM solenoid was ordered and all was right again once it was installed.

Fred

[Ted Schefelbein]

I am going to throw a wrench in this thread.     

Something else to consider, the Starter Solenoid.

Years ago, (2016) after I did the 1297cc engine build. I had the exact same issues. I removed the starter, cleaned everything, installed a 2 brush rebuild kit and off I went. The starter would spin the motor like nobodies business. BUT..... a short time later, the Hot start issue returned. I dealt with it for about 6 months before the bike finally decided it was done starting while hot.
In the course of investigating the cause. I discovered that the Starter solenoid was intermittent when hot. A new OEM solenoid was ordered and all was right again once it was installed.

Fred

Fred,
I'm trying to remember if I ever put a starter in any vehicle I ever owned without ponying up for a new solenoid. I actually haven't.

Not intending to start, now. That solenoid is far more than old enough to buy beer. I'll have a look at the cables, as well.

Thanks for the reminder, however.

Ted

[Ted Schefelbein]

Well, I was going to recommend you contact Paul Cashio about his "super starter" mod - but, while searching for his website I discovered he passed away in 2021. That sucks

Also - at least you have the option to push start if it comes to that. 

I think Paul's son Arthur is still in the business, I just stumbled on a deal too good to pass by with the NOS XJR1300 starter.
He did not rewind four pole starters, all his magic happened with the two pole starters.
Coulda' woulda' shoulda', but I think I'll be alright with the XJR unit. Sometimes problems can have more than one answer.

Ted

[Ted Schefelbein]

Starter showed up today, five days early from Germany. Just sent an order to RPM for a new solenoid.
I rode the bike a bit today, the bike sat for between 1/2 hour and a few hours between starts, and, everything is perfect in that set of circumstances. It was cool today, too. That helps, I'm sure.
I'll report back in a week or so.

Ted