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Clutch Plates Reassembly

Started by Miker, October 13, 2023, 03:14:12 PM

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Miker

Hi everyone. I'm replacing the clutch plates on my '85 FJ1100 for the first time.  This is my first time working with a clutch basket of this type. I have slowly bolted down the six diaphragm spring bolts in a criss cross pattern and torqued to the recommended 5.8ftlbs.  The diaphragm is now flat against the other plates.   Is this normal?  The clutch is very stiff and I'm not sure it does anything when I pull the lever. I see very little movement when I look over to the clutch basket when pulling the lever. I also accidentally pushed the ball bearing out through the clutch basket side as i had all the clutch plates and slave removed and knocked against the rod from the shifter side.  I reinstalled it by pulling the rod completely out and inserting the bearing followed by the rod on the shifter side. I found this helpful video (https://youtu.be/SPykpBNarDM?si=ZR8hG0sUPB3uI_pQ), but I can't tell if the diaphragm is as flat against the plates as mine. Any help is much appreciated. Thanks!
1985 FJ1100
2003 ZX-12R

racerrad8

Did you replace the most inner clutch disc?

The most inner and most outer discs have a large ID for required clearance.

If you installed the standard disc it either place, the clutch will be engaged all the time.

The diaphragm spring is basically flat when torqued down.

If you had the slave off, you might have allowed air to enter the system and thus the reason you aren't seeing movement.

HTH.

Randy - RPM
Randy - RPM

Miker

Quote from: racerrad8 on October 14, 2023, 05:09:54 PM
Did you replace the most inner clutch disc?

The most inner and most outer discs have a large ID for required clearance.

If you installed the standard disc it either place, the clutch will be engaged all the time.

The diaphragm spring is basically flat when torqued down.

If you had the slave off, you might have allowed air to enter the system and thus the reason you aren't seeing movement.

HTH.

Randy - RPM


Thanks very much for getting back to me Randy.  I had the slave off to change the front sprocket.  I bled the slave after I reinstalled it and kept the cover off for some time to ensure any air bubbles would make their way to the reservoir.  I am doing a complete maintenance overhaul.  The clutch is still not working after all I've done below to try and correct the issue. 

Thanks for confirming the diaphragm spring is basically flat when installed.

The guy in the video put seven standard discs in first and finished with one thinner friction disc.  I have a cheap aftermarket friction disc set and all eight discs are standard size.  The worn friction discs I took out of the bike included two thinner discs and six standard discs as shown in the FJ1100 clutch diagram.  Also, I initially forgot to put the clutch boss spring 36Y-16383-00-00 before the first friction disc went into the basket. 

So I took everything out and I installed the plates in the order shown in the diagram using the two old thin discs in positions one and eight of the friction disc array.  I did not include the ring set
2H7-16385-00-00 as everyone says to chuck it.  I did replace the OEM clutch spring with a heavier EBC clutch spring model number CSK903 as that was also recommended by everyone.

The clutch lever is still extremely stiff and I cannot shift into gear.  I uploaded a video to youtube to show what happens on the clutch basket side when I pull the lever.  You can see that the puling the lever results in the push rod pushing against something, but I can't move the shifter when the clutch is pulled in.  The lever stops about a third of the way of its full range of motion and it feels as if it is trying but failing to push through something. 

I wonder if this has anything to do with the ball bearing falling out of the clutch basket side.  As I stated in my initial post, I pulled the push rod all the way out from the shifter side, inserted the ball, and then reinserted the push rod. 

I included a pic of the basket when empty and a pic of the basket when all plates are installed.

Thanks again for your help!

https://youtu.be/2QhUkbQH2tU
1985 FJ1100
2003 ZX-12R

racerrad8

That spring appears over center, not sure what's wrong.

Randy - RPM
Randy - RPM

Miker

Quote from: racerrad8 on October 15, 2023, 02:10:23 PM
That spring appears over center, not sure what's wrong.

Randy - RPM

Well thank you for taking the time out of your day to help me trouble shoot. I think I'll take it apart again and lay the clutch basket contents out in order they went in then post a pic. Then I'll put all the original worn discs back in and see if I can get that shifter to budge.

Looking at the parts diagram I'm not sure that I have #28   O-RING 93210-06632-00 on the PUSH ROD 36Y-16356-00-00.  Other than that I don't know what else could be missing.

Is the clutch basket side push rod supposed to protrude past or seat within the PRESSURE PLATE 36Y-16351-00-00 bearing when the clutch is pulled in?   What would you do to troubleshoot this problem?
1985 FJ1100
2003 ZX-12R

racerrad8

I saw the over center spring in the video.

Having a good look at the photo, it appears the pressure plate is not properly indexed with the clutch boss.

The pushrod appears properly seated in the pressure plate bearing.

I would disassemble and determine where the problem lies. If it worked prior to disassembly, as long as the friction plates are the proper ones, it falls back to proper assembly.

Randy - RPM
Randy - RPM

balky1

Quote from: Miker on October 15, 2023, 11:13:58 AM
Quote from: racerrad8 on October 14, 2023, 05:09:54 PM
Did you replace the most inner clutch disc?

The most inner and most outer discs have a large ID for required clearance.

If you installed the standard disc it either place, the clutch will be engaged all the time.

The diaphragm spring is basically flat when torqued down.

If you had the slave off, you might have allowed air to enter the system and thus the reason you aren't seeing movement.

HTH.

Randy - RPM


Thanks very much for getting back to me Randy.  I had the slave off to change the front sprocket.  I bled the slave after I reinstalled it and kept the cover off for some time to ensure any air bubbles would make their way to the reservoir.  I am doing a complete maintenance overhaul.  The clutch is still not working after all I've done below to try and correct the issue.  

Thanks for confirming the diaphragm spring is basically flat when installed.

The guy in the video put seven standard discs in first and finished with one thinner friction disc.  I have a cheap aftermarket friction disc set and all eight discs are standard size.  The worn friction discs I took out of the bike included two thinner discs and six standard discs as shown in the FJ1100 clutch diagram.  Also, I initially forgot to put the clutch boss spring 36Y-16383-00-00 before the first friction disc went into the basket.  

So I took everything out and I installed the plates in the order shown in the diagram using the two old thin discs in positions one and eight of the friction disc array.  I did not include the ring set
2H7-16385-00-00 as everyone says to chuck it.  I did replace the OEM clutch spring with a heavier EBC clutch spring model number CSK903 as that was also recommended by everyone.

The clutch lever is still extremely stiff and I cannot shift into gear.  I uploaded a video to youtube to show what happens on the clutch basket side when I pull the lever.  You can see that the puling the lever results in the push rod pushing against something, but I can't move the shifter when the clutch is pulled in.  The lever stops about a third of the way of its full range of motion and it feels as if it is trying but failing to push through something.  

I wonder if this has anything to do with the ball bearing falling out of the clutch basket side.  As I stated in my initial post, I pulled the push rod all the way out from the shifter side, inserted the ball, and then reinserted the push rod.  

I included a pic of the basket when empty and a pic of the basket when all plates are installed.

Thanks again for your help!

https://youtu.be/2QhUkbQH2tU

Either 2 narrow and 6 normal or 1 narrow and 7 normal or 0 narrow and 8 normal. 7 steel discs. Check their warpage while in there.
Refer here:
https://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1808.0


FJ 1100, 1985

Old Rider

Did you bleed the clutchslave when the clutchpack was out? Try to open the bleedscrew,but put a plastic hose on the bleerderscrew first so you dont get brakefluid in your eyes. Also make sure you have the spring placed the right way and make sure you have the lockwasher on the clutchbossnut
peened / staked better that the guy in the video.The clutch boss nut tourque is 70NM.

Miker

Quote from: racerrad8 on October 15, 2023, 11:08:58 PM
I saw the over center spring in the video.

Having a good look at the photo, it appears the pressure plate is not properly indexed with the clutch boss.

The pushrod appears properly seated in the pressure plate bearing.

I would disassemble and determine where the problem lies. If it worked prior to disassembly, as long as the friction plates are the proper ones, it falls back to proper assembly.

Randy - RPM

That was it!  The grooves on the back of the pressure plate were not lined up with the grooves of the boss.   My mistake not holding the pressure plate in the correct position while screwing the spring diaphragm down. The whole boss should move a bit when the clutch lever is pulled in.  Great eye Randy and thanks a lot for the help! Thanks to everyone who responded.   

I uploaded a video of the movement of the clutch boss when assembled correctly.  https://youtube.com/shorts/1VuBia5mhLg?feature=share
1985 FJ1100
2003 ZX-12R