New bike but not happy with the deal

[Old Rider]

A few days ago i bought a 1977 Kawasaki z1000 A1 .It was high priced 13279 usd. It was far away from where i live so only had som pictures to look at
the seller told me it was in mint shape and engine was not worked on he thaught. i asked alot of questions about any faults ,but he say everythin was very good.I decided to buy it since it also had a z900 exhaust installed.He came to me with it in a wan an i told him i would pay him 200usd for the ride if i decided not to buy it. It was raining badly when he came and i took it for a ride and notised that it runs only on 3 at low rpm the frontbrake was sticking .
on high rpm it run on all 4 but with bad misfiring.The seller was serius and very nice.Since it rained so heavy i trusted him stupid as i was and did not check the bike better.The paint is very nice and also the chrome on fenders was nice. But the next day after i registered it in my name and have payd for it i took in my garage to see if i could fix the not running on cyl 2 i knew it was nr 2 cyl because when started the header stayed cold for a while. i measuret the comp and it was 150-160 psi the plug on nr 2 was badly fouled.I checkerd the coils and they was fine and installed new sparplugs. But then i started to discover bad things
The fins on both cylhead and cylinder was broken it had many different bolts on valve cover and then i found that the intake on both cyl 1 and 4 was broken
and fixed with epoxy.Also the forks had pitting and leaked .Brakes was sticking and the brakeshoes was worn almost to metal.Also the frame had been welded
and broken off a bracket another place on frame. I have now contacted the seller and sendt him picks of the damages i found .He is willig to take the bike back
I told him i could still buy it if the price was reduced alot ,but he wants to have the bike back .So i learned a lesson again to not just trust sellers i should have gone thru the bike better first, but the rain was poring down and at first look it looks really nice. The seller is very nice to take the bike back i think and i dont think he tried to trick me.Here are some pics of things i found.At that price i payd the bike should be perfect but it was not.
What do you guys think? should i keep it if the price is reduced and how much should the damages reduce the price ?

[Millietant]

Unless there is BIG reduction in price, I would just walk away.

The bike is not "mint" - and if the outside has been bodged so badly, just imagine what it could be like inside the engine - how well has it been maintained, what condition are the calves and cam shafts in, plus, what else will you find when you really look hard (there is rust bubbling through the frame paint, bolts missing, those forks won't be cheap to put right and you've already spotted other stuff,.

A polished turd is still a turd, in my opinion. The risk you will be taking is significant and the price needs to reflect that

[T Legg]

It is definitely not mint as advertised but not many bikes that old are. It is a good  looking bike from a distance with nice tank and body work ,undented and bright chrome . The forks ,head and cylinder replacement sounds expensive and labor intensive but I think that bike could be very nice if you wanted to put the work into it. I see a lot of bikes for much less over here but most of them look beat up and lots of nonstock parts.The ones that look restored are all over ten grand .I don't know what they are worth over there . I wouldn't want to pay the price for a restored bike for one that needs that much work but if you can talk him down to a more reasonable price it could become a great bike .
  I love that granite rock and forest in the back ground. Looks like over here up in the mountains.

[Urx]

Take your money back and sigh with relief.
Its a shiny turd

The price reduction would need to be enormous ....you would be better off continuing the search for one that is actually good.

[Old Rider]

Thanks for advice guys ! Today i decided to take another look at the kawa and just see if i could get it running on all 4 cyl and if the backfiring could be sorted out plus i tried to fix the brakes binding.I first got the brakes to free up by using just a little wd-40 at the pistons and push them a little. I then used some starter gas and sprayed on the inntake on the cyl heads and both the cyl 1 and 4 that was fixed with epoxy made the idle rise so they are leaking air.I read alot on kawasaki forums the last days and found the mixture screws on this model is set at 1 amd 1/4 out.I first checked how far they was out and it was 3 and 1/2 on all 4 carbs. I then sat them at 1 and 1/4 out .I fired up and run a litte but then the bike boged out and did not start and the battery started to go flat.I then tried to kickstart it that did not work then trying to jump start it by running the bike down a steep road in second gear when i was at almost at the end of that downhill road i realised what was wrong and it was the petcoock turned off then when turned the fuel on again i was able to get it started i drove back to my working place at the parking but the bike did not run well.So then i turned the mixture screws one quarter more out so thet was 1 and a half out.Then the bike fired on all 4 but had to adjust the idle .After that it took it for a ride an was surprised how nice the bike ran super fast power
and all 4 cylinders running at low speed to and also no more shotgun bacfiring !!!.I then rode for a long ride pushing the bike and it is very quick.
Then after the ride and i parked it it cam alot of smoke out from under the gastank and smelled burnt oil i knew the seller told me a o-ring at the tackometer
on engine was leaking a little so i could see it was a little oil there that had dripped onto cylinderhead.At this point i had decided to keep the bike  and ask for a reduction in price. But when i came home and study the pictures and movies i took today i found some more bad stuff that is more serius take a look at the pics. It is a pitty because i really want to keep the bike .The exhaust is almost new replica z900 and cost 2500 usd and with a kit for the z1000 another 500usd the seat looks brand new the fenders also and speedo blinkers and many other tings looks new.But now im think i will have to let ot go back to seller because of what i found today on the pics i mean a crack in the enginecase and a crack under the tackometer fitting is not a good thing. So how much reduction in price will this damage cost?

[Old Rider]

I have now been down and looking at the bike more and now it does not look like there is a crack afterall ? here are more pics i took now is it a crack in the case???  also checked the crack under the tachometer fitting and could not find it now ??

[Millietant]

Irrespective of whether those are cracks, or not, the bike has been bodged, badly fixed and is in nothing like the "mint" condition it was described as.

Attempts have been made to hide some of its failings and I'll guarantee you there are more you haven't yet discovered. The carbs should tell you that whoever "fixed up" this bike has no idea what they were doing and if I were you I would run as far away from it as I could get

The price is for a mint bike - what you have there is a ticking time bomb (just think how much it will cost you to get the cylinder head fixed (in both time and money) alone - think about what the bike cost you once you add up the cost of everything you will have to do to get it to be worth even the current asking price. I'll bet you'll be left with no more than $5k to buy the actual bike and I can't see the seller going for that.

[Urx]

Everything Millietant said...and i reiterate from the pics its a lemon waiting to bleed you of money joy and satisfaction.
Take your full refund and count yourself lucky
The engine looks to have been bodged as have the carbs...ruuuuun awaaay screaming.

[Bones]

Looks like they used a screwdriver to try and prize the barrels off and damaged the casings doing so. There is a lot wrong with it and like others have said get your money back and walk away. Think with your head not your heart.

[Old Rider]

Well that was a short ownership of the Kwaka the bike is now loaded in a wan and on its way back to seller.
I washed the bike before it got picked up by the transporter and when i looked at the paint on gastank a little
closer it had some markings in the paint that is from a z900 decals stripes. Also a 7 inch ring on the side of tank showing thru
the paint ,dont know what that is from.I maybe could have wetsanded the clearcote so the markings disapeared
,but also could have sanded thru the clear cote and into the basecoat and then i vould have had to repaint
everything. Inside of the tank was perfect no signs of rust and looked like brand new metal.The bike had a
upgraded electronic ignition and coils installed so that was a good thing  the rear schock was new to.I think
the bike has been sitting for a long time since the tires had little air in them .The tires is very old .when i
did the first testride in the rainstorm. I got wet in my underpants on that little ride and it was not from
incontinence or me being scared  .

It is sad i have to deliver it back because i really want a z1000A1 in that color cheme. It brings back memories
from when i was a kid and my neigbour had exactly the same bike parked utside my door.His name is also Rolf
later he had a Z1R 1000 light blue.There was many bikes parked utside where i lived back then kawa 1000ltd and a
z650 and suki katana 1100  honda cb500 and a suki gs 1000g that guy who owned that was crazy doing wheelies with
the suki gs1000g up the traficked street where i lived and no helmet   . I know that guy named Rolf is a legend
on kawasaki bikes and had a workshop for motorcycles so about 14 days ago i called him and asked for advice on
another kawa Z1000 A1 that i was going to buy.That bike was priced 9900 usd and it was far from where i live
also.That bike was imported from usa. The usa bikes has
a single brake disk and speedometer in miles. it had 4 into 2 pipes, but not oem exhaust.It was also same color
cheme that the one i bought now.They are very rare here in Norway .KawasakiRolf looked at the pictures and told
me the price was fair even if it was not a mint looking bike.I then made an appointment with the seller and was
going to take the bus and train to where he lives ,but imissed the train because it was early in the
morning.Then a few hours later the seller texted me it was sold  .I asked how much it was sold for but he did not
answer.Then just 14 days later this bike turned up and also it had  a z900 4 into 4 exhaust installed that i had
planned to install if i get a Z1000A1.So i was really exited and called the seller right away and told him i
want it.The pictures of the bike was all from a distance and low rez so hard to see the faults that i found
later.I asked alot of questions about the forks engine brakes ets and he told me it was i top condition.I dont
blame him trying to trick me i think he just did not know so much about bikes.He was a very polite and serius
man


Travis: here in norway i have seen some z900 that looks realy nice
that has been restaured and had engine rebuildt go for 12000 up to 22500 usd but 22500 is way to much i think
for a ordinary z900. If it is a 1973 Z1900 22500 usd is maybe fair i saw one sold for 55000 in usa.The z1000a1
im not sure how much they go for
since they are more rare here i think.But that guy named Rolf told me that 9900 was fair price for a 19777
Z1000A1 even if it was not top condition.
It was a 1977 Z1000a1 with a oem z900 exhaust for sale a while ago and the seller wanted 22500 for it and that
is way to much even if it was mint condition i think.
There is a z900 that is mint for sale now 13000 but i dont like the color on that one
also another z900 mint for 17500 but not the color i want and to expensive.



Bones: you was right that i should use my brain and not my heart.This was too much damage to repair fast and get
in mint condition without spending much time money and work.


Dean: Thanks for good advice you are right it is a ticking time and money bomb.And to fix the engine will be
expensive.And i dont want to think about what could be hiding inside the engine,but i got it to run well and
copression was good and no smoke on startup or while riding.The seller sayd he never done a valveadjustment on
it and maybe if i open the valvecover i will meet alot of helicoiled bolts since it has many different bolts in
the cover.It has been many owners on the bike


URX: You are right it dont look good and the mechanic doing the work on the engine must have been in beast mode.


I have now found a kwaka z1300 that i may buy instead ,but i think i will wait for the next z1000
For now i just have to be satisfied looking at my 1/8 and 1/12 scale model z900 and z1000 kawasakis  

[T Legg]

 This deal probably cost you a bit in time and money but it wasn't wasted. You had a Z1000A1 to ride as hard as you wanted to go for a day. The old owner gets his bike back washed and no longer running like crap with all the cobwebs blown out .
   Now you know exactly what you want.

[Old Rider]

lol i did not ride it like a maniac, but since the bike now was mine and insured on me i wanted to se if something in engine blew or if clutch slipped and that the transmission worked with no jumping out of second gear.I did this now because then if somthing is wrong better to find it early and contact the seller rather than after a few months.
The first testride  before the bike had been registered on me i could only ride it easy because of the rain
and soapy water on roads plus the old tires had little air in them  .The front brakes was sticking too.The day after i filled air in tires and drove to a shop and bought new sparkplugs i was a litte embarresed on the trip ,but had a laugh inside the helmet to because i had to rev the engine at high rpm when standing at redlights and stoppping for pedestriants and when going slow in roundabouts while fighting the sticky frontbrakes and sticky clutchcable thru roundabouts  here in the city and the mufflers are loud!.Did not help with the shotgun loud bacfire that came sometimes either   You are right about the cobwebs i think i heard something like a mice got blown out one time to =)But did not se it in the mirror
There was a few old ladys looking angry at me =) mayby thinking i was an angry rider,I smiled as nice as i could back at them, but that does not help much wearing a balaclava hoodie under the helmet =) ,but i had to rev it because it only run on 3cyl and stalled if the revs dropped to much.After the calipers was lubed a little and clutch and throttle cables was lubed new sparkplugs and mixture screws adjusted and got itrunning at 4cyl it was so much
better to ride not having to use high rpms and slipping the sicky hard clutch cable to take u turns or slow turns .The steering got nice to and could feel the bike rolled a lot better.Also tested the head bearings by sitting far back on the seat while it standing on centerstand so the frontwheel is clear of ground.The bars fell nice to sides and could not feel any sticky spots so that was good.
The bike is quick ,but not as quick as the fj i was out with the fj last night and the power and accseleration
is more brutal on the fj .Suddely a dear crossed the road about 200meters in front of me on the road in the forrest and i braked hard expecting his buddy coming next =)

You are absolutly right that now i know better what to look out for on the next kwaka
it cost me 200usd for the transport back to seller and another 200usd to seller because i told him that
i pay him 200usd if he bring the bike to me and i was not buing it.It was great owning the bike for 3-4 days.I miss it already I guess the seller will be surpriced how nice it is to ride now and running on all 4 .If he rides it?

About the cracks i found it was strange that they was almost not possible to see  when i was down looking at the bike to inspect them and took new pictures .Almost like they had dissapered? when i think about it now it may have been because on the first picks/movie where cracks are visible the engine i very hot.On the picks i took later the engine had cooled down maybe the aluminium had expanded when hot so the cracks was more open??? but that is just a theory.I can not check that now as the bike is not mine anymore.

The suspected crack in case i think Bones is right about the screwdriver prying, but maybe also happened if a cylstud was installed and there was oil down i the hole making a hydralic lock

One thing that is strange is that the seller
did not want to lower the price more than 200usd when i posted the pics of the damages on engine, but i think he had invested a lot in all the new parts fenders mirrors rear chocks z900 exhaust maybe repaint of the bodyparts new seat new blinkers electronic ignition with new coils ets.I dont know how much he has payd for it but i think it has been sitting for a looong time not been used the engineoil was lightgrey when i looked into sight glass and when adjustig the mixture screws i got my fingers covered with greenbrown thick gas .The inside of gastank looked brand new.

The seller is very nice and i have got the money back already.Strangely i still want the bike love does blind hoping he will
call me and offer me a better price .It had been interesting to fix the engine (it is easy to find new cylinder sleeves and pistons and other parts for it) (The cylhead is not easy to find)  and ovehauled the carbs but then the price have to be reduced more than 200usd or maybe not =) i really want to save the bike and get it mint condition and maybe have it in my livingroom =)

[Urx]

Move along
Look for a good one
You cant save them all and this one is expensive and shows telltale signs of bad previous owners
Its just waiting to bleed you dry of money and joy

[Old Rider]

Move along
Look for a good one
You cant save them all and this one is expensive and shows telltale signs of bad previous owners
Its just waiting to bleed you dry of money and joy

Yepp just like all ladys do 

[Old Rider]

i have now found another kawasaki it is a 1978 z1000 A2 the color is red. It was repainted not long ago ,but i dont like that color so i will have to repaint it in the dark blue/green metallic color i like.I will also have to buy a new z900 replica exhaust to  make it look the way i want and that cost 2500++ usd

This bike looks very good on pictures .The problem is i cant make a inspection and test ride it because the bike is a 10 hours drive  from me. The seller told me everything is fine and that it has new valves and valve stemseals and electronic ignition .

He sendt me a 5 second video of it running ,but it was low quality resolution.I spoke with the seller on phone
for a long time yesterday and he seems nice.I know the engine has no outside damages because i wanted him to take pictures of the spots
on engine that was damaged on the other z1000A1.It looks like the engine has little work done to it the screws are in good condition.
I have made a temporary deal to buy it for 12000 usd .Then seller wanted  1000 usd so he could be sure i will buy it because it was another buyer interested so i have paid him that.He did not want to give me any garanty on the bike since it so old and will sell it "as is"

Now the problems and red flags: I discovered today that he has owned the bike just 6 weeks when i looked at the owner history in Norwegian traffick register.On the phone yesterday it sounded like he had it for many years i forgot to ask how long he had owned it. I then started getting a little suspicious and have now sendt him some sms messages if he have any receipts of valves valve stem seals oilfilter airfilter oil ets. He has no receipts so far and say he will try find it.Also asked him if he has some pictures of the work that he or the mechanic he talked about has done or if he has done or can do a compression test So far i have not got any reply.No pick of the electronic ignition either
I told him by sms today that since i dont have a chance to test the bike i want him to take it to a workshop
that is not far from where he lives i googled that workshop =)  and get a mechanic to do a testride an a quick test on the bike.
He has stopped answering so i guess i just skip the deal he cant force me too buy it i think.The 1000 bucks
i think is lost ,but that is better than spending 11000 usd more if there is a problem with the engine or transmission and i will have to rebuild the engine. What do you guys think?? I mean no guarantie on  engine and price 12000 usd  and no proof the engine is served ?