Two Intake cams

[Namick88]

Picked up a 1986 FJ 1200. This is my fourth FJ in my life just feeling kind of nostalgic came across this one for 500 bucks so I couldn't pass it up. The guy that I bought it from bought it to basically drag race it at a local drag strip it looks rough but it's all there. I purchased it with both cams out. I have already gone through the carbs and benched synchronize them.  He had bought new used Cam for it but never put it back together. When I went to go install the cam with the index hole pointing up on cam cap 3 for both intake and exhaust I looked at the cam loads and saw the lobe position  was incorrect for the exhaust side. A pond closer examination to the cam itself I found where somebody had grounded off the stamped "I" for intake so here I am with two intake cams no exhaust cam. With the timing chain in place and the right time is correct. I move the crankshaft until all four pistons where level or even. Then I loosen the cam sprocket bolts and removed them and turned the camshaft till it was 180 out. Now everything's in time however I don't know but the specs are on these camps same lift same load same duration can anybody point me in the right direction. The reason why he replaced the cam is the exhaust cam broke on number one piston the far end lobe.

[Pat Conlon]

This is a Randy / Chris / JMR question

[fj1289]

First off - are these stock cams or are they welded up regrinds?

For some later model motorcycles the 2 intake cams is a popular cheap mod for a little more power since the exhaust cams are smaller than the intakes.  Not so on the FJ - intake and exhaust are the same stock, and typically so for aftermarket grinds too.  

As long as the cams are degreed properly (with adjustable sprockets) I don't see an issue?  

Now - with all the engine turning with the exhaust cam 180 out - did you get any piston to valve contact?  Or even valve to valve contact?  That would be my main concern at this point .....

[Old Rider]

I had a look on some old camchafts i posted a pic. I tried to simulate by turning the cam 180 and it does not look like all the lobes are placed in exatly the same position. I dont think you can turn it full 180degree .And the oil galleys will not match but not sure if that has any impact on oil distrubition.
i would not take the chance

[Namick88]

First off - are these stock cams or are they welded up regrinds?

For some later model motorcycles the 2 intake cams is a popular cheap mod for a little more power since the exhaust cams are smaller than the intakes.  Not so on the FJ - intake and exhaust are the same stock, and typically so for aftermarket grinds too.  

As long as the cams are degreed properly (with adjustable sprockets) I don't see an issue?  

Now - with all the engine turning with the exhaust cam 180 out - did you get any piston to valve contact?  Or even valve to valve contact?  That would be my main concern at this point .....

man this site is great I really appreciate all the replies and the feedback. As long as both camshafts are the same I will take a look at those oil galleys though but I don't see how they would get misaligned the timing degrees is set right on the money. Thanks guys for all your input. I bought this bike for $500. I've had three fj's in my life I'm 58 years old and I got to tell you this is one of my favorite bikes. I have the money to go I can get a new one if I want and I'm not having a midlife crisis I just love these bikes. Today I took all the valve last readings tomorrow I'll go get the shims I have some but I think I'm going to need more. I could use help with one issue I could do the math I need to go get a veneer caliper I have the the Sim chart thanks to this site how in the heck do you read it it has your measurements it shows the installed shim but it doesn't tell you what shim to put in well I'm sure it does I just don't know how to read it. I'll get some pictures posted up here soon thanks guys I really appreciate you.

[Namick88]

This is a Randy / Chris / JMR question

Yes sir you got a question for me. I also appreciate you in all of the information you have posted on this website and your bike is gorgeous. I'm such a noob to this site what is jmr?

[Namick88]

First off - are these stock cams or are they welded up regrinds?

For some later model motorcycles the 2 intake cams is a popular cheap mod for a little more power since the exhaust cams are smaller than the intakes.  Not so on the FJ - intake and exhaust are the same stock, and typically so for aftermarket grinds too.  

As long as the cams are degreed properly (with adjustable sprockets) I don't see an issue?  

Now - with all the engine turning with the exhaust cam 180 out - did you get any piston to valve contact?  Or even valve to valve contact?  That would be my main concern at this point .....

thank you for replying. No they are not reground factory stock cams. And nothing was touched as far as interference goes as far as interference goes. Your answer was the one I was looking for intake and exhaust factory are the same.

[fj1289]

JMR is the username of "James Mike Rieck"

A bonafide cylinder head expert - very well known in the Honda SOHC world and also knows his way around the DOHC heads - and by extension the FJ heads too!

[Namick88]

JMR is the username of "James Mike Rieck"

A bonafide cylinder head expert - very well known in the Honda SOHC world and also knows his way around the DOHC heads - and by extension the FJ heads too!

Thanks FJ 1289. As soon as I get back to work I'm going to start being a contributing member the information on this site is so valuable and the fact that these guys put it out there for free is a great testimony of the passion for the FJ line. Can't finally figured out how to use the Sim chart my eyes are so bad these days sometimes I read without my glasses and I didn't realize the top row was darkened that's my starting point and then my measurement is straight across for the shim that I'm going to replace it with. Today after my job interview I am going to make a toll for holding down a shim bucket. Shouldn't be too hard I got some good pictures of the factory one lock it up with some cardboard. The right material drill press vice bend it in the shape I should be good to go of course polish The edge so I don't damage the ship bucket.

[racerrad8]

Please take a photos of the ground off casting. It was common for people to grind off the legs of the E and the X so it looked like N "I".

I have never seen one the other way.

Also, please take a profile of each cams lobe from the end.

The photos will answer the questions.

Randy - RPM

[Old Rider]

I had to find out more so took a bunch of pictures and tried to make the intake cam into a exhaustcam by first turning the cam sprocket then turning  both cam and sprocket 180 i could not make a exhaust cam from a intake cam .The resason is the camsprocket carrier is not in the same angle on the camshafts
also loos like the lobes are a little different angle .You may get away with it with adjustable camsprockets and turning the cam not fully 180 degree ,but i would not try it because it looks like the
lobes will not be right,but im not an expert. Randy will know i posted a buch of pics i got a headake trying to find out if it works =)
here are some picks .While you are in there you should also measure the lobes with a micometer  maybe it is worn out so you need a better cam anyway

[fj1289]

Old Rider - just to make your head hurt more - what about if you also move the sprocket on the chain by a tooth or two?  Added with a slotted stock sprocket or aftermarket adjustable?  You will be able to set your intake and exhaust events where you want them.  It's just a piece of metal with lumps on it.  As long as the lumps are in the right places in the right phase, the engine doesn't know any better!  As soon as you start doing things like this factory timing marks are irrelevant and the person doing the build is responsible for getting the valve events in the correct places - it's timing wheel and piston stop and dial indicator time!

[Old Rider]

Old Rider - just to make your head hurt more - what about if you also move the sprocket on the chain by a tooth or two?  Added with a slotted stock sprocket or aftermarket adjustable?  You will be able to set your intake and exhaust events where you want them.  It's just a piece of metal with lumps on it.  As long as the lumps are in the right places in the right phase, the engine doesn't know any better!  As soon as you start doing things like this factory timing marks are irrelevant and the person doing the build is responsible for getting the valve events in the correct places - it's timing wheel and piston stop and dial indicator time!

haha i thaught about that too and you right.
I still have a headake and it is increasing the more i think about this.I forgot to post the most important
picture it was something with the profile on the lobe not the same .I dont want to look into it anymore too much headake  

[Namick88]

Please take a photos of the ground off casting. It was common for people to grind off the legs of the E and the X so it looked like N "I".

I have never seen one the other way.

Also, please take a profile of each cams lobe from the end.

The photos will answer the questions.

Randy - RPM

here you go Randy

[Old Rider]

Namick88 : i can give you the exhaust cam i have here for free if you pay for postage from Norway.It is a little worn on some lobes but it will work just fine.
I  wrote down the numbers when rebuild my engine and measured the camshafts .I wanted everything in spec so i bought a cam that was in spec.
All oilclearances on the journals is inside spec .Also the runout is in spec .The lobes marked with a red square is out of spec (under limit)
but it will work just fine