Adding a fuel pump to my 89

[melloncollie]

When I purchased my 89 there were some fuel issues.  Long story short, a previous owner removed the fuel pump and kept the fuel filter.  My temporary solution (for the last year) of removing the fuel filter got the bike running and I put off a permanent fix.  In talking with giantkiller last week, he heavily suggested putting one back in.  Made it to the short list of things to do.  Then today I went to the garage for something and smelled gas around my bike; that put it right at the top of my short list.  A few questions before I dive in and start buying parts:

1) I drained the oil right away but there doesn't seem to be any gas, it doesn't look like much leaked period but there was some gas pooled above the clutch cover.  I just changed the oil last week so I don't want to toss it if I don't have to; can I reuse the oil or should I change it regardless?  I'm cheap but I'm not "ruin my stuff" cheap
2) As far as the pump goes, I was considering looking for an R6 pump as mentioned in the files section.  Does anyone have an off the shelf solution for the pump bracket?
3) Last, my carbs.  I've got rs36's set up essentially as shipped; 130 mains, 17.5 pilot jet, middle position needle clip, 17mm float height, pilots 1.5 turns out, 2.8mm needle seats.  Do I still need to replace the needle seats like for the stock carbs?

I'd appreciate any suggestions/recommendations anyone might have.

[Waiex191]

Read my thread a few posts down on this page:
https://fjowners.com/index.php?topic=19343.135

And also read this thread:
https://fjowners.com/index.php?topic=20096.0

I didn't change my oil.

[melloncollie]

Thanks for the reply.  I'll use the oil; it looks clean, smells like oil rather than gas and my level didn't go up.  It was really a small amount of gas that was resting by the clutch cover from number 4.  One correction on my pump plans: I ordered the YZF600 pump; not the R6.  Per this thread https://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1147.0

Also, any way someone could move this thread to the Project Write-ups section?  I'm realizing I should just keep a thread going with everything I'm doing and maybe I'll be more inclined to post my updates more often.  The easier I can make it for myself the more likely I am to follow through.  Otherwise I can start a new thread too.

My original plan today was to check out my clutch as it slipped the other day.  Tonight I'll be taking it apart and measuring friction thicknesses.

[Pat Conlon]

Also, any way someone could move this thread to the Project Write-ups section?  I'm realizing I should just keep a thread going with everything I'm doing and maybe I'll be more inclined to post my updates more often. 

Done

[melloncollie]

Cool, thanks Pat.

Pulled the clutch discs last night, friction and steels were all right around .117 and .077 respectively.



Tried using a granite cutting board to measure warpage but I doubted its flatness.  Later tried the glass stove top which seemed more accurate.  I don't think I have anything verify flatness of the granite or stove but the steels passed on both surfaces.  The spring looks to be out of spec; do I need to be concerned with warpage if I'm doubling the spring?  Free height was within spec. 

Nothing that looked like glazing or heat to me, steels and friction will be going back in.

I thought I had, but couldn't find, a 32mm socket for the nut so I stopped there for the night.  Planning on getting a second oe spring, the RPM detent kit, and another full size friction in place of one of the narrows.

[melloncollie]

Good thing I got the axle socket rental tool from my local auto parts store, its a 30mm not a 32mm like I thought.  The kit includes both.  Went to order a few parts from RPM and much to my chagrin the shift detent kit that was in stock just yesterday was no longer in stock.  After a quick phone call, RPM somehow manged to conjure one up; many thanks again for making that happen.  Also got the answer to a question I asked earlier in the thread: warpage is not an issue when doubling the oe spring. 

Now the waiting game.  On order is the shift detent kit, wide friction disc, oe spring, and some odds & ends.  Also the YZF600 fuel pump from ebay.  Still wondering if I need to change the needle seats when adding a fuel pump to the Mikuni RS flatslides.  My guess is no because there's no mention of it in the install booklet and no mention of any year difference in any of the RS literature.  Can anyone confirm that line of thought is correct?

[Pat Conlon]

That is a good question.
I've seen the RS flat slides on fuel pumpers and gravity flow FJ's, wonder if there's a difference?

I know for sure you need the small needle seats on the FJ's CV carbs with fuel pumps.....you will flood your fuel bowls if you use the larger gravity flow needle seats with a fuel pump.



https://fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9836.0

[oldktmdude]

   You definitely need the smaller float valves to run the flat slides with a pump. I had to change mine from gravity fed to the pump fed valves.
I'm fairly sure that the CV carb float valves will fit the flat slides but I will check mine and get back to you ASAP.
   Regards, Pete.

[T Legg]

The literature that came with my RS flatslides says nothing about using them with a fuel pump and there is only one needle valve assembly shown for 34,36,38,&40 mm carbs. I have only seen them on gravity fed bikes but there must be a solution if people are running them with pumps .  

       Here are pictures of an RS needle valve and an FJ gravity fed needle valve side by side . They are similar but have different length dimensions. Maybe they could work I've never tried . The new needle valve is OEM FJ .

[giantkiller]

Maybe that's why the previous owner took off the fuel pump.   

[oldktmdude]

   Just checked my RS 38's and I used 1.5mm float needle and seats from the CV's.

[melloncollie]

I did a bunch of research today including reading through everyone's replies, thanks everyone.  Ended up calling Sudco, I guess I should have started there.  The call lasted all of a minute and I had my answer.  For fuel pump models Sudco recommends a 2.0 mm needle seat.  P/N N149/040-2.0 which I should have by the weekend hopefully.

Maybe that's why the previous owner took off the fuel pump.   

Thats a good point.  Maybe they were flooding with the larger seat and the p.o. thought the pump wasn't shutting off when it was supposed to.

I know for sure you need the small needle seats on the FJ's CV carbs with fuel pumps.

https://fjowners.com/index.php?topic=9836.0

That thread is what tipped me off to needing something other than what I've got.  Glad it was there to get me pointed in the right direction.

   Just checked my RS 38's and I used 1.5mm float needle and seats from the CV's.

Thanks for checking that out for me, its much appreciated.  For now I'll go with the 2.0 Mikuni lists for the flatslides and if there's any issue I know that'll be an option in the future.  If I had any from an old set I'd use those but since the bike came with flatslides all I've got laying around is for flatslides.

The literature that came with my RS flatslides says nothing about using them with a fuel pump and there is only one needle valve assembly shown for 34,36,38,&40 mm carbs. I have only seen them on gravity fed bikes but there must be a solution if people are running them with pumps . 

        Here are pictures of an RS needle valve and an FJ gravity fed needle valve side by side . They are similar but have different length dimensions. Maybe they could work I've never tried . The new needle valve is OEM FJ .

Yeah, the booklet it ships with is pretty bare bones.  It does list FJ1200 ALL as the application and just the one number in the exploded view for the needle and seat without much else.  I found the Sudco catalog earlier today and it was way more helpful, it lists the 2.8 as standard but gives other options.  I love a good catalog. 



Once I've got the fuel pump on and running I'll pool all of my research and tuning guides into one place on the forum for anyone else that may need it. 

[FJmonkey]

Sounds like a good add to the files section once you get it sorted. Function first, Dyno to fine tune it.

[Pat Conlon]

Don't know what fuel pump they have in mind for you but be sure the fuel pump completely shuts off the flow fuel when the pump is powered off*** ..if it doesn't and you get some dirt or debris under any float needle seat, you will awake one morning and your crankcase will be full of fuel. 

***....or if the pump does not stop the fuel flow you can always put a 12v inline fuel shutoff solenoid keyed to your ignition switch.

[fj1289]

Pretty sure I ran RS36's and RS38's on my 89 with no issues at all with the seats they came with.  Same with the FCR's. 

I'd try it first and see if there even is a problem before trying to solve a problem that's probably not going to be there!