would more restrictive mufflers cause the mitor to run hotter

[jono]

I have just started assembling my bike for the last time after many different changes and today I took it for a short ride on some country roads staying under 6000rpm and when I got back to the shed I keep it idling for a couple of minutes so I could lower the idle a bit and I was amazed at how hot the engine was it was  so hot when i turned it off and spat on the cam cover it sizzled is this normal ? .I'm sure when I first got the bike and rode for short rides like today every time I made changes to the bike it never got so hot ,
the changes Ive made before this ride are new inlet manifolds  new carb float valves and new mufflers it starts easy no air or fuel  leaks idles strongly it was a bit fast at idle but Ive sorted that, the new mufflers are a lot bigger and quieter than the cutoffs that were on it when i purchased the bike so are obviously more restrictive could they cause the motor to over heat ?the only other thing's Ive done is drop the sump and cleaned the pickup filter and put new o rings on the 2 relief valves in the sump and the one's on the oil cooler and a new oil filter is there a possibility  I could of in some way restricted or lost oil pressure and would this cause the motor to run hot I haven't ridden it again but I have started it a couple of times and it runs sweet ,hopefully im over reacting but I though there is no harm running it by you guys to see what you think

jono

[ribbert]

... I was amazed at how hot the engine was it was  so hot when i turned it off and spat on the cam cover it sizzled is this normal ?
jono

[jono]

Ive also installed new plugs they are the standard dpr8ea 9 which I'm told is standard for a 1991 fj1200a  but the plugs in it when I purchased the bike were dp9ea 9 which are colder so I will change back to 9's and hope fully it will cool it down a bit .has anyone fitted a oil pressure gauge to an fj1200 motor and if so were is the best place attach it ?

jono

[ribbert]

I have just started assembling my bike for the last time after many different changes and today I took it for a short ride on some country roads staying under 6000rpm and when I got back to the shed I keep it idling for a couple of minutes so I could lower the idle a bit and I was amazed at how hot the engine was it was  so hot when i turned it off and spat on the cam cover it sizzled is this normal ? .I'm sure when I first got the bike and rode for short rides like today every time I made changes to the bike it never got so hot.......
jono

Pat, where are you? this guy needs help and no one's answered him.

[racerrad8]

Pat, where are you? this guy needs help and no one's answered him.

Oh Noel, you answered him yesterday.

... I was amazed at how hot the engine was it was  so hot when i turned it off and spat on the cam cover it sizzled is this normal ?
jono

But you then deleted your answer...

Noel, why are you trying to stir it up by asking Pat why he hasn't answered him?

It is unfortunate, that you have turned to game playing on the forum when people ask for help. If you have something offer then offer, other than that I do not see a need to this type of post.

Randy - RPM

[racerrad8]

Jono, yes the engine will get very hot sitting still and running at idle. The engine is of air-cooled design and absent airflow thing get very hot.

Spitting on the valve cover is not the best way to determine the actual temp as anything of 100*c (212*F) any bodily fluid will boil. If you are going to run the bike while tuning, forced air faces are the best thing you can do to not overheat the engine. While that do flow air, they cannot replicate the forced airflow compared to when the bike is running.

Now, the mufflers, there are several questions. You say you had cut offs before and those have zero restriction. So, on the face of things, I would say the muffler will have more restriction that the cut outs. Secondly, the internal design, regardless of the exterior size are going to determine the flow and restrictions. There are many posts over on the XJR side of the bike where people modify the stock muffler to remove the restriction. I think someone here might have also done that when they installed a set of XJR mufflers onto an FJ.

Send some photos of the mufflers and maybe list what bike they are from and there might be some better chance of helping to answer the question(s).

Oil, pressure gauge. You can install one into the mail oil galley with an adapter like this: Yamaha Main Oil Galley Adapter.

The problem a lot of people see, especially in the race car world, is the pressures are not high like most V-8 engines. The idle pressure on the FJ is about 3 lbs and the after market gauge will not indicate that low of a pressure. Even at cruise RPM oil pressure are low and they vary on the internal engine wear.

I do not see a need to have an oil pressure gauge on an FJ.

Randy - RPM

[Pat Conlon]

Pat, where are you? this guy needs help and no one's answered him.

Sorry lads, it was Sunday (family day) and I took the day off...

Randy's got my back.....I agree with Randy, an oil pressure gauge IMHO is not as important as an oil temperature gauge, although not for knowing the maximum oil temp, you don't really want to know (it is what it is) but instead, I want to know when my cold oil gets up to proper (170*-180*F) operating temperature. This takes longer than you expect. Folks mistakenly think, oh good, my engine's warm because I turned off the carb choke ..not so...it takes longer to heat up your oil.

If you idle your big 1200cc engine for too long without airflow across those cooling fins (via box fan) you will burn your exhaust valves and valve seats.

A lean fuel/air mixture causes higher exhaust gas temperatures (EGT's) thus your engine runs hotter.
If you want your engine to run cooler, run richer Pilot jets (from #37.7 to 40 or 42.5) shim your needles, and go up one or two sizes on your main jets (from #110 to 112.5 or 115)

I don't believe any muffler of oem design will cause hot running. I do know the opposite happens,  a free flowing header system will reduce back pressure, increase volumetric efficiency and with the added airflow, cause leaner fuel mixtures and hotter EGT's, again, you adjust for this with your jetting.

Noel, you know all this, why did you not tell jono?

[Sparky84]

Oil, pressure gauge. You can install one into the mail oil galley with an adapter like this: Yamaha Main Oil Galley Adapter.

I do not see a need to have an oil pressure gauge on an FJ.

Randy - RPM

How about an oil temp gauge Randy, would that be useful?

Cheers
Alan

[racerrad8]

Oil, pressure gauge. You can install one into the mail oil galley with an adapter like this: Yamaha Main Oil Galley Adapter.

I do not see a need to have an oil pressure gauge on an FJ.

Randy - RPM

How about an oil temp gauge Randy, would that be useful?

Cheers
Alan

Not really. The oil system is pretty sorted out on the FJ as far as cooling. Yes, it can get hot if stopped in heavy traffic, but for the most part the oil temps are stable regardless of where you live or how you ride. The only improvement I have ever made to the FJ motorcycle was the addition of the RPM oil cooler. During all our testing with that, we used a remote digital oil temp gauge and once the testing was completed the gauge was removed from the bike.

Randy - RPM

[Sparky84]

Oil, pressure gauge. You can install one into the mail oil galley with an adapter like this: Yamaha Main Oil Galley Adapter.

I do not see a need to have an oil pressure gauge on an FJ.

Randy - RPM

How about an oil temp gauge Randy, would that be useful?

Cheers
Alan

Not really. The oil system is pretty sorted out on the FJ as far as cooling. Yes, it can get hot if stopped in heavy traffic, but for the most part the oil temps are stable regardless of where you live or how you ride. The only improvement I have ever made to the FJ motorcycle was the addition of the RPM oil cooler. During all our testing with that, we used a remote digital oil temp gauge and once the testing was completed the gauge was removed from the bike.

Randy - RPM

Thanks Randy

Yep , done my fair share of city stop start traffic running in peak hours, yes it certainly gets warm up top with engine heat, only thing I've ever noticed is that my generator cover has what looks like heat affected paint, dulled finish.

Any extra oil required once that cooler is fitted or just change oil and top up to line as usual?

When I do oil change, I usually change filter and add oil to line then take bike for a run then let sit and top up oil to line as required (or a touch above)

Cheers
Alan

[jono]

thanks Randy and pat both you guys have given me very good advice before and once again you lead me in the right direction
when I rode it the other day it was the first ride of it reassembled after my rebuild and for the first time every thing was complete as far as the engine goes and new brakes and drive train I did ride stop idle then ride stop idle twice so the more i think the more i realize what I did was not wise, I now have a fan to use when it is idling, the reason I questioned installing an oil pressure gauge Randy was more so that I would have something to monitor any sudden change to the motor while its running but after what Pat sad I think I will add a temp gauge .I running standard
Japanese model jetting as it was when I bought it so I'm going to richen it up by 1 size larger pilot jet and shim the needles when I find out where to get shims I can get pilot jets easy enough
I'm also going  back to the colder plug that was in it when i got it
when I started it the next evening after my panic attack it started perfectly and  sounded good and tight ,Ive posted pictures of the cut off muffler that was on it and my new exhaust system now I wounder if the new mufflers do require rejetting they are manufactured for a moto guzzi california 1300 i think??? .They were heavily restricted in the neck leading to the can but I removed all of the baffling then fitted a new link pipe to the cans
once again thank you all for your help
now for the fitting of the fairings

[wainot-Phil]

Now, the mufflers, there are several questions. You say you had cut offs before and those have zero restriction. So, on the face of things, I would say the muffler will have more restriction that the cut outs. Secondly, the internal design, regardless of the exterior size are going to determine the flow and restrictions. There are many posts over on the XJR side of the bike where people modify the stock muffler to remove the restriction. I think someone here might have also done that when they installed a set of XJR mufflers onto an FJ.

Randy - RPM

Just about the XJR Mufflers on a FJ , I have fitted XJR1200  and XJR1300 (that is XJR Mufflers up to 2004) to 6 of my FJ Bikes in the past ,before fitting  I have always removed the End Plate (via the 3 PoP Rivets) ,Drilled about 2" around the existing 1" outlet ,then all you do is pull the existing 1" Baffle out by pushing it side ways and pulling at the same time , The Baffle that comes out is about 8" long  X  about 1" round ,, You then Pop Rivet back on the  2" original  End Cap back on with 3 new Pop Rierts  to cover over the area you have Drilled out , So you end up with a 2" outlet Hole instead of a 1" outlet Hole , THAT'S THE 1st   PART,,
 
Now what you have to do is Drill about 5 x 1/2 holes with a Foot long Drill Bit through the Steel dividing Plate inside the Muffler , Being careful not to let the Drill bit come out the side of your nice Muffler ,
If you cut a XJR Muffler in half you will find that  Inside the front half of a XJR Muffler it ONLY has a 1" pipe inside which feeds through to the Rear half of the Muffler , So thats why you need to Drill in the extra  5 x 1/2 Holes ,l between the Front and Back half of the Muffler ,,, This then add up to about a 2" flow right through the Muffler ,, hope that makes sence
 

[ribbert]

Noel, why are you trying to stir it up by asking Pat why he hasn't answered him?

It is unfortunate, that you have turned to game playing on the forum when people ask for help. If you have something offer then offer, other than that I do not see a need to this type of post.

Randy - RPM

Here we go again....

It has been my observation over the years that posts that don't get answered within 24 hours tend to drop off the other end and are forgotten. I was simply alerting the forum to the fact the post had not been answered, I included a jovial reference to Pat, in the context of him being our most prolific advisor, as many do, have done and will no doubt continue to do in the future in a good-natured way.

Randy, for god's sake, just take it in the spirit in which it was offered and stop reading things into it that aren't there, leave the spin and your personal bias out of it. The only stirring or game playing going on here is your suggestion of it. If it was my goal to be disruptive or "stir" or "play games" I would do so in far more spectacular fashion. 

Pat, I never answer those sorts of questions but I'm pleased you've changed your mind about acknowledging I could if I wished to.  Speaking of stirring, it's mischievous of you to suggest I should have though; you know full well what would happen and who it would wind up if I did.

Randy and Pat, contrary to your accusation, I did help, in fact twice and before either of you posted, suggesting likely causes and recommending a course of action.

Randy, yes I did answer then delete a response. I write all my posts off line then copy and paste them onto the relevant forum. Occasionally I forget the politics of a forum when writing but when it comes to editing before posting, sometimes the task of taking into account everyone's sensitivities and making changes accordingly becomes onerous and more trouble than it's worth, so I delete them. For example, let's say I was to post a reminder on a forum that a question from a member had gone unanswered, surely no one could take offence at that, right?

So, in summary, the "Pat" reference was not offensive, I did answer Jonno's query, (three times now) and I was not the one doing the stirring or playing games.


So, as you can see gentlemen, there is no mischief afoot but a mere misunderstanding over dry humour and then having it blown out of proportion.




Noel


Speaking of dry humour, I suppose a retraction and an apology would be out of the question? 

[jono]

WTF
   thanks for your help Randy & Pat

[RPM - Robert]

Jono, looking at the photos. You need to get the side air duct scoops added to the bike as well to help cool the center portion of the cylinder head which will help control the heat.