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Author Topic: Electric motocross  (Read 19408 times)
Pat Conlon
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« on: December 16, 2020, 10:48:02 AM »

Hey folks, I came across this Red Bull video made last year, showing an electric motocross bike...
Outside of Palm Desert, up in Anza on the Indian reservation, there is a motocross track where they have these bikes running in the 250 class. The last I checked, the electrics can’t hang with the 450’s (yet) but they are very popular in the smaller 250 class. They are able to hot swap the batteries between heats.

Has anyone else seen these bikes in action?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkBTvoDzQYY

Turn up the sound......wait, never mind..
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1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don’t store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the ‘84-87 FJ’s:
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red
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1985 FJ1100N, V&H4-2-1, and Pirelli Sport Demons.


« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2020, 01:33:19 PM »

Hey folks, I came across this Red Bull video made last year, showing an electric motocross bike... They are able to hot swap the batteries between heats.
Pat,

Speaking of the batteries, I would not expect large batteries to stand up to the beating of a motocross track session. 
Smaller cells, yeah, but probably needing lots of them.  I'd like to see what these bikes use as battery arrays.

After the production Lightning LS-218 ran off with the Pike's Peak race and the Land Speed record (218 mph), I'm a believer in electric bikes.
Jay Leno's Garage had one out on the highways, on a test drive, as seen on YouTube.  Very nice!  Costs ~US$40k though.
I can see having a fuel cell in one pannier and a fuel tank in the other pannier, as a range extender (hybrid) system, where charging stations are scarce.
.
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Cheers,
Red

P.S. Life is too short, and health is too valuable, to ride on cheap parade-duty tires.
ZOA NOM
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2020, 02:43:12 PM »

A full minute and a half and he plugged it back in. Hopefully the wind is blowing. LOL
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Rick

Current:
2010 Honda VFR1200 DCT (Full Auto!)
1993 FJ/GSXR 1200 (-ABS)
1987 Porsche 911 Carrera (Race)
1988 Porsche Carrera (Street)
Previous:
1993 FJ1200 (FIREBALL)
1993 FJ1200ABS (RIP my collar bone)
1986 FZ750
1984 FJ600
1982 Seca
Millietant
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« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2020, 03:10:23 PM »

I have to say, I'm passionate about Electric Motorbikes...........that's to say passionate about calling out the current (pun intended) manufacturers, such as Zero and Harley Davidson.....for their misleading marketing and their blatant bribing of journalists/presenters, or cow-towing to ridiculous Govt aims to promote Electric Motorcycles at all cost.

In certain markets and areas, electric bikes are brilliant - we have one in our family, and Oset trials bike that my youngest, my brother and my nephew ride. It is incredible fun and perfectly suited to the type of use it gets - always off-road, staying within 5 miles of "base" and being used in total for about 1.5-2.0 hours each session (before being put back in the van and being taken home to be re-charged).



Other markets where they are perfect, are the urban commuter and short distance commuter markets, where riders only ever go relatively short distances with long enough stops between each journey leg to recharge.

For any other type of what we regard as "normal" use, they are absolutely useless, especially the Zero's and the Livewire.

I've posted a spec sheet from the Zero website below for one of their Road bikes, which has the slogan "The SR/F, equipped with Zero’s Cypher III operating system and Bosch’s Motorcycle Stability Control (MSC), is equal parts brawn and brains. Effortless power is paired with intuitive control, creating the new standard for premium performance—an adaptable motorcycle and powertrain combination that navigates diverse road terrain and conditions, effortlessly."

Imagine trying to use this bike on the recent Bermagui Shed Day ride - 400km in one day...don't make me laugh.....at "normal road riding speeds" that's a minimum of 2 mid-ride recharges - ie an absolute minimum of almost 3 hours sitting at the side of the road waiting for the bike to re-charge - and if you didn't opt for the extra expense of the fast charger or the "Premium" specification, that "sitting time" with a standard EVSE cord and power outlet goes up to 17 hours....for one day of riding - bearing in mind that the actual riding time for that journey would like be 4-5 hours. So, it would take almost 22 hours to cover the route of the latest shed day on a Zero....definitely sounds effortless to me, NOT !

That certainly is "the new standard for premium performance—an adaptable motorcycle and powertrain combination that navigates diverse road terrain and conditions, effortlessly"   rofl rofl rofl rofl

And all for the remarkably cheap price of somewhere north of $20,000 (US) even for the most basic bike with no fast charging.  Sorry guys, but these bikes are a joke for real world riding....and don't get me started on their "Effortless Adventure" DSR Black Forest edition bike.  :Facepalm:

Anyway, here are the specs from the website for the DSR/F road bike


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Dean

'89 FJ 1200 3CV - owned from new.
'89 FJ 1200 3CV - no engine, tank, seat....parts bike for the future.
'88 FJ 1200 3CV - became a race bike, no longer with us.
'86 FJ 1200 1TX - sold to my boss to finance the '89 3CV I still own.
Millietant
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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2020, 03:12:45 PM »

If our Oset is anything to go by, I can bet those electric MX bikes are an absolute HOOT to ride.... I would love to try one.

I tried a couple of the Oset bikes way back in 2012 at an off-road training centre and they were great fun then too - but they don't seem to have advanced very far in battery life/range and charging times since then.
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Dean

'89 FJ 1200 3CV - owned from new.
'89 FJ 1200 3CV - no engine, tank, seat....parts bike for the future.
'88 FJ 1200 3CV - became a race bike, no longer with us.
'86 FJ 1200 1TX - sold to my boss to finance the '89 3CV I still own.
ZOA NOM
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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2020, 03:49:49 PM »

I had a run-in with a Zero on my commute home one day, and I didn't realize it was electric at first. It was so quick pulling away from the light, and seemed so smooth. It wasn't until I caught it on an onramp to a freeway that I figured it out. Went by him like a freight train at about 85, and he disappeared in the mirrors as I climbed through 4th and 5th gears. Nice little scooters to run down to the store on I suppose, but I just can't see wasting so much coal on charging them up all the time.
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Rick

Current:
2010 Honda VFR1200 DCT (Full Auto!)
1993 FJ/GSXR 1200 (-ABS)
1987 Porsche 911 Carrera (Race)
1988 Porsche Carrera (Street)
Previous:
1993 FJ1200 (FIREBALL)
1993 FJ1200ABS (RIP my collar bone)
1986 FZ750
1984 FJ600
1982 Seca
Millietant
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2020, 05:31:30 AM »

Yeah, if he was on a freeway he likely wouldn’t go above 55moh so he could reach the next off ramp !!!
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Dean

'89 FJ 1200 3CV - owned from new.
'89 FJ 1200 3CV - no engine, tank, seat....parts bike for the future.
'88 FJ 1200 3CV - became a race bike, no longer with us.
'86 FJ 1200 1TX - sold to my boss to finance the '89 3CV I still own.
Millietant
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2020, 05:34:52 AM »

I had a run-in with a Zero on my commute home one day, and I didn't realize it was electric at first. It was so quick pulling away from the light, and seemed so smooth. It wasn't until I caught it on an onramp to a freeway that I figured it out. Went by him like a freight train at about 85, and he disappeared in the mirrors as I climbed through 4th and 5th gears. Nice little scooters to run down to the store on I suppose, but I just can't see wasting so much coal on charging them up all the time.

You shouldn’t like in a third world country Rick, where they still burn coal to generate electricity.

Modern, evolved countries, use much cleaner fuels (like nuclear)  rofl2
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Dean

'89 FJ 1200 3CV - owned from new.
'89 FJ 1200 3CV - no engine, tank, seat....parts bike for the future.
'88 FJ 1200 3CV - became a race bike, no longer with us.
'86 FJ 1200 1TX - sold to my boss to finance the '89 3CV I still own.
Waiex191
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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2020, 09:07:29 AM »

There is a guy in our Sonex forums who built an electric Xenos motorglider using a Zero motorcycle to donate its motor and batteries. He has a bunch of videos and has been flying for a while now.  Here is an early taxi test.
https://youtu.be/eAdoFVu4bdo

An electric motorglider is actually a pretty good implementation of electric power I think. Plenty of power to self-launch and plenty left over for a recovery.

Gabe was somebody at Zero before he went to do other things.

Am I the only one here who misses two strokes?
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Bryan
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« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2020, 09:20:37 AM »

Definitely not Bryan - a Kawasaki H2, KH 250 B2, or KH 400 are on my dream list, together with a Suzuki GT 750 but I'd need 2, one to keep stock and one to modify just like this one

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Dean

'89 FJ 1200 3CV - owned from new.
'89 FJ 1200 3CV - no engine, tank, seat....parts bike for the future.
'88 FJ 1200 3CV - became a race bike, no longer with us.
'86 FJ 1200 1TX - sold to my boss to finance the '89 3CV I still own.
Pat Conlon
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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2020, 10:20:06 AM »

Hey folks, I came across this Red Bull video made last year, showing an electric motocross bike... They are able to hot swap the batteries between heats.
Speaking of the batteries, I would not expect large batteries to stand up to the beating of a motocross track session. 
Smaller cells, yeah, but probably needing lots of them.  I'd like to see what these bikes use as battery arrays..

Hey Red, the single afternoon I spent at the track, I noticed the MX heats were short races...maybe 5 minutes? The main event was longer, I think around 10 or 15 minutes.
I had forgotten all about those electric MX’ers until I saw the Red Bull video.
I wondered if other folks knew more about them.

Dean, that trials bike looks cool and I agree with you about the EV industry misrepresenting the real world range of EV bikes ridden at real world speeds. Motorcycles sell to a limited market, electric motorcycles to even a smaller slice of the pie.

However....electric mountain bikes are selling well in my region. They are fun.
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1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don’t store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the ‘84-87 FJ’s:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3
red
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1985 FJ1100N, V&H4-2-1, and Pirelli Sport Demons.


« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2020, 10:46:36 AM »

Yeah, if he was on a freeway he likely wouldn’t go above 55moh so he could reach the next off ramp !!!

Yeah, and just ignore those DHL and Tesla tractor-trailers, too.  All those truck fleet pre-orders don't mean anything!
We need those big old Cadillacs with Freon air conditioning and ten MPG engines!

 . . . I live in the past.  It's cheaper there.
    lol   

Actually, Santa, I really wanna Lightning LS-218 fer Christmas!  I promise to wear ATGATT, 'n' I won't shoot my eye out with it.   Cool   
.
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Cheers,
Red

P.S. Life is too short, and health is too valuable, to ride on cheap parade-duty tires.
Pat Conlon
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« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2020, 11:35:28 AM »

Yeah, and just ignore those DHL and Tesla tractor-trailers, too.  All those truck fleet pre-orders don't mean anything!
The ports of LA and Long Beach, Calif. have struggled with air pollution from diesel trucks with 100’s of these trucks idling in queue awaiting offloaded containers, so they are at the forefront of the nation’s clean air truck program. Natural gas is a big player in these mandated clean air trucks, but I see Tesla’s short haul trucks fitting into that program just fine. These short haulers just need to go from LA/LB ports inland to Fontana, offload, then return back to the ports. As battery energy densities improve, the range of the electric trucks will become competitive with long haul diesels.
Here is a 2018 article on the clean air truck program. The number of clean air trucks serving these ports today is greater than the 700 called out in the article.
https://www.trucks.com/2018/09/18/ports-la-long-beach-clean-truck-testing/
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1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don’t store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the ‘84-87 FJ’s:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3
Motofun
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« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2020, 01:42:23 PM »

Seems to me a long haul electric truck/tractor would need to be able to go 700  to 800 miles on a charge all while pulling 80,000 lbs through the mountains.  Diesels do this all the time.  The drivers being limited to 10 hours per day push the rigs pretty hard.  I predict the greenies will push for even more regulations to limit trucks in order to make electrics competitive....
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Pat Conlon
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« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2020, 02:24:16 PM »

You are correct Jack, for long hauls, the electrics are not there yet. That’s why I stayed with the short haul scenarios. The current Max range of the Tesla tractor is 300-500 miles. Load capacity for Tesla’s are ok at 80k lbs. Operating cost per mile is better than diesel.
Since 2018 Tesla has been running their fully loaded trucks from their battery factory in Reno, NV. on the I-80 up over Donner Pass (Tahoe) down to the Tesla car factory in Fremont, CA. (Bay area) It’s a 7 hour 260 one way trip and they regenerate enough energy on the down hill run (Tahoe to Sacramento) that they don’t need recharging in Fremont. They can make the round trip on one charge. In fairness, they do the return leg to Reno with a reduced load.
I think economics, low cost per mile and low maintenance costs will be the selling point for these trucks, along with having to comply with super restrictive air pollution regs where trucking is concentrated.

https://www.tesla.com/semi

We shall see....
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1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don’t store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the ‘84-87 FJ’s:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3
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