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Gravity fuel filter test

Started by Old Rider, November 02, 2020, 02:06:05 PM

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Old Rider

Quote from: Motofun on March 14, 2021, 07:50:51 AM
Methyl Ethyl Keytone should do the trick.  It is NASTY stuff.  Use it outdoors, wear gloves and a paint respirator.
PS...protect the exterior paint.

Thanks for the advice !  now it just to find that stuff here in Norway ...

Old Rider

King winter has now started to arrive and i have drained carbs and gastank.The tankliner that was installed 4 years ago has cracked even more.Drained the tank with a hose from tank filler hole into clear bottles.The fuel only had a few white flakes from the cracked liner in it.Where all the pieces go i don't know  maybe they just dissolve in the fuel?. Anyway i only ridden about 5000km this summer and so far had no problems with the filter i placed inside the hose.
No signs of fuel starvation when wot or when there is little fuel left in tank.I once taught there was a problem when i suddenly ran out of fuel on the highway for the first time in 30 years! the idiot low fuel warning light did not came on and i thought i had full control that it should be about 5 litres left. :yahoo:

I have checked the inside hose filter a couple of times this summer and it has been
clean so the petcock filter inside the tank is doing its job


Motofun

MEK, methyl ethyl keytone will remove the old liner.  It is nasty NASTY stuff.  Do it outside and wear rubber gloves and activated carbon respirator....or just get someone you really don't like to do it......Sfter you clean the tank, I've had very good results with Caswell tank liner.  It's a 2 part epoxy.  The only gripe I have is it's fairly thick and difficult to fully drain after coating the interior.  I drained it on my gravel driveway and for several years had a nice epoxy spot that was impervious to anything!   :good2:
'69 Honda Trail 90
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SOLD: CBX,RZ500,Ninja 650,CB400F,V45 Sabre,CB700SC,R1

Old Rider

Quote from: Motofun on November 07, 2021, 08:31:06 AM
MEK, methyl ethyl keytone will remove the old liner.  It is nasty NASTY stuff.  Do it outside and wear rubber gloves and activated carbon respirator....or just get someone you really don't like to do it......Sfter you clean the tank, I've had very good results with Caswell tank liner.  It's a 2 part epoxy.  The only gripe I have is it's fairly thick and difficult to fully drain after coating the interior.  I drained it on my gravel driveway and for several years had a nice epoxy spot that was impervious to anything!   :good2:
Thanks for the advice. I tried to find that MEK stuff here in Norway but couldn't. I tested using something named stable acetone and it did the job.Completely dissolves the liner ,but the liner has to bee into the acetone the vapors will not remove anything.The acetone i used for this test cost 70 usd for 5 litres so if i have to fill the tank with 22 litres it will be too pricey.
I did a test with a screw that is covered with the liner from when installed the liner  se pic.

About the caswell it sound promising and it is real epoxy,i have been thinking about using that, but i have read both good and bad reviews about it.It seems most liners just fail after some 3-4 years.

ribbert

The incidence of rusty tanks is only going to get worse. An idea I considered was a plastic tank with the original fitted back over the top once the bottom had been cut out of it, so it becomes a decorative cover over the actual plastic one underneath.

With 6500 members someone must work in a related industry and can advise on the practicality of such an idea.

Noel
"Tell a wise man something he doesn't know and he'll thank you, tell a fool something he doesn't know and he'll abuse you"

red

Quote from: ribbert on November 08, 2021, 07:33:22 AMThe incidence of rusty tanks is only going to get worse. An idea I considered was a plastic tank with the original fitted back over the top once the bottom had been cut out of it, so it becomes a decorative cover over the actual plastic one underneath.
With 6500 members someone must work in a related industry and can advise on the practicality of such an idea.
Noel
Noel,

Not sure if that approach will be valid for many riders, but I could see inflating a thick "balloon" of hot (fuelproof) plastic inside a hot tank, to create a custom-lined and durable inner tank.  You may need small holes pulling a vacuum at the far corners of the tank to get the maximum of volume inside the existing tank, but some minor loss of tank volume should not be a deal-breaker there.  Seal the inner and outer tanks together at the inlet and outlet openings, and it's done.  No welding.

My US$.02 worth . . .
Cheers,
Red

P.S. Life is too short, and health is too valuable, to ride on cheap parade-duty tires.

gdfj12

Noel,

The material of the tank being steel makes it a very repairable item. It is a very workable material if you have access to the right tools and some little bit of skill in using them (or know someone who does). Steel can be welded, or brazed to fix it up. And if your welding skills are like mine, an angle grinder and a bit more welding and grinding can help, as well as some filler and primer in the painting stage. ;^)

In my opinion, trying to make a plastic tank would be difficult to do & getting a durable end product might be hard to achieve. Another option would be to make a tank out of aluminum. It's easier to form than steel and can be TIG welded as well as soldered with aluminum soldering rods & a torch. The top half that is exposed to use & abuse would need to be a bit thicker to stand up to it though. Once it is all fabricated it will be a bit less susceptible to corrosion like a steel tank is. Of course if you anted to torture yourself you could make one out of stainless steel. That could be quite beautiful if done well. :^)

If/when my FJ tanks get to the point of rusting bad enough to need fixing I will be looking at stripping all of the paint off & removing the rust to see what's left. From there I would most likely weld in patch panels where needed. I would then see about using either one of the epoxy based coating systems or trying to use electroless nickel plating to thoroughly coat the interior of the tank. Of course then prepping the outside and repainting it. That's if there are no stock tanks available in decent shape left to buy somewhere.

George
gdfj12
George D
'89 FJ1250 ~'90-black/blue
'87 FJ1250 ~streetfighter project
'89 FJ1200 ~white/silver, resto project
'88 Honda Hawk GT, resto project

Old Rider

Quote from: red on November 08, 2021, 09:57:29 AM
Quote from: ribbert on November 08, 2021, 07:33:22 AMThe incidence of rusty tanks is only going to get worse. An idea I considered was a plastic tank with the original fitted back over the top once the bottom had been cut out of it, so it becomes a decorative cover over the actual plastic one underneath.
With 6500 members someone must work in a related industry and can advise on the practicality of such an idea.
Noel
Noel,

Old rider wrote:
Noel:
I like the idea stuffing a plastic tank inside but it will for sure hold less fuel and may be difficult when filling at the gas station  making a
non leaking seal between fillercap and plastic tank.Then there is the fuelsender that must be modified.


Red wrote:
Not sure if that approach will be valid for many riders, but I could see inflating a thick "balloon" of hot (fuelproof) plastic inside a hot tank, to create a custom-lined and durable inner tank.  You may need small holes pulling a vacuum at the far corners of the tank to get the maximum of volume inside the existing tank, but some minor loss of tank volume should not be a deal-breaker there.  Seal the inner and outer tanks together at the inlet and outlet openings, and it's done.  No welding.

My US$.02 worth . . .

Old rider wrote:
Red:
That is also a good idea. Or maybe just make a casting of the hole tank and make one in fiberglass/plastic can work many bikes have fiberglass/plastic tanks

My tank did not really need a liner in first place it had very little rust ,but have seen many FJ with rusted holes in the down angled outer point on sides.Because
water lays down there under the fuel. It gets even worse when using ethanol fuel that is hygroscopic.Here in Norway it is not possible to buy clean fuel .The best thing to use here is
98% super that has only 2-5% ethanol in it .I wanted to avoid  rusting down in the angled points (sorry for bad English =) ) and therefore i did the liner
install.Maybe adding a little oil in the fuel will help.Yamaha manual recommend to drain the tank when storing the bike and use some oil and sloshing it around.
I will strip out the liner and use a snakecamera to inspect inside better.If it looks good i think i skip the liner next time if not i will try the
2k epoxy paint primer it is very durable and i don't think even acetone will bite on that. I  will test it during the winter by painting a metal canister inside
and then fill it with fuel  and let it sit for some months.

Old Rider

Here is the angled  point im talking about =)  

red

Quote from: gdfj12 on November 08, 2021, 12:16:22 PMNoel,
The material of the tank being steel makes it a very repairable item.
If/when my FJ tanks get to the point of rusting bad enough to need fixing I will be looking at stripping all of the paint off & removing the rust to see what's left. From there I would most likely weld in patch panels where needed. I would then see about using either one of the epoxy based coating systems or trying to use electroless nickel plating to thoroughly coat the interior of the tank. Of course then prepping the outside and repainting it. That's if there are no stock tanks available in decent shape left to buy somewhere.
George  gdfj12
Hey everybody!  

I think that George has come up with the real answer (sorda)!  I know that in the process of chrome plating, the real restoration of steel parts is in the preliminary nickel plating.  Ideally, this will be actual electroplating of the inside of the tank, done by  a commercial shop.  The longer the process continues, the thicker the nickel plating will become.  The plating process will automagically "fill in" any pinholes caused by rust.  Once a tank is de-rusted, the electroplating process can make the nickel plating inside the tank as thick as may be desired (within reason).  Experts in the field may have a good suggestion of other metals to "top off" the nickel plating, with a view to durability rather than appearance.  Since such work is done often on automobile parts, this process of electroplating the inside of a gas tank should be reasonable in cost, and very good in results.

Any thoughts?
Cheers,
Red

P.S. Life is too short, and health is too valuable, to ride on cheap parade-duty tires.

T Legg

How do you not at the same time nickle plate the outside. It might look nice. Kind of like an old BSA .
T Legg

red

Quote from: T Legg on November 08, 2021, 05:26:53 PMHow do you not at the same time nickle plate the outside. It might look nice. Kind of like an old BSA .
T Legg,

I would not want to nickel-plate the outside, but it should certainly be possible in a large-enough container.  Buffing would be required, then.

To plate the inside of the tank only, I believe that you could fill the tank full with the electrolyte plating solution, and attach the electrodes, inside and outside the tank.  Do the job while the tank sits on the workbench, dry on the outside.
Cheers,
Red

P.S. Life is too short, and health is too valuable, to ride on cheap parade-duty tires.

Domino

Old Rider, the 98 octane fuel sold by Shell in Norway contains max .5% ethanol, according to the specifications published on their website. So it should be fairly safe to use. Of course, you can always add a dl or two of two stroke oil to the tank before putting the bike away for the winter to help prevent rust.

Old Rider

Quote from: Domino on November 09, 2021, 03:24:19 AM
Old Rider, the 98 octane fuel sold by Shell in Norway contains max .5% ethanol, according to the specifications published on their website. So it should be fairly safe to use. Of course, you can always add a dl or two of two stroke oil to the tank before putting the bike away for the winter to help prevent rust.

Yes i know that is why i only fill her up on shell stations 98 super.

Pat Conlon

Old Rider, you have been quiet on the product you used to seal your tank.
It wasn't by chance, Kreem?

1) Free Owners Manual download: https://tinyurl.com/fmsz7hk9
2) Don't store your FJ with E10 fuel https://tinyurl.com/3cjrfct5
3) Replace your old stock rubber brake lines.
4) Important items for the '84-87 FJ's:
Safety wire: https://tinyurl.com/99zp8ufh
Fuel line: https://tinyurl.com/bdff9bf3