RPM Shift Detent Upgrade Woes

[chainsaw936]

My oil pan was weeping oil since I picked up bike last year so I decided to replace the pan and all seals related to the per Robert's suggestions from RPM. I also opted to swap out the shift detent roller and spring while I had the oil drained and here's where things got fun. I'm no rookie but certain things I find to be fun and challenging and always have a service manual handy for reference. I pullled the clutch basket and related items to make room for installing the new detent roller upgrade. Wow, Robert wasn't kidding, it's not an easy job and after struggling for a bit, I had my wife give me that extra set of hands to make things go. Then I found neutral, checked for the light on the dash and all is well. But, for the life of me, I can't seem to get the short pushrod in to seat against the nut on basket after install? I thought maybe the ball bearing inside was hung up but was able to get it out and doesn't have any wear from what I can see and sit's against the long pushrod inside the transmission shaft. I've attached a few pics of my weekend warrior project which I'm hoping to get some feedback on how to finish things off. I figured it wasn't going back together because it was in gear initially so I did get to neutral but same issue. My Klymer manual and pics form a search on the forum show the pushrod flush against the nut after install? What am I missing gang? Help greatly appreciated. Thanks

Shawn
1989 FJ1200
2015 FJR1300A

[fj1289]

That bottom picture is completely normal.  When you install the pressure plate and the clutch spring, it will seat itself. 

As it sits in the bottom picture, you should be able to push it in with a good amount of pressure with your thumbs.   If not, you may want to pull the clutch slave cylinder and make sure the piston didn't over extend if the clutch lever got pulled or bumped while the clutch was out.   

[chainsaw936]

Thanks for the reply and I will pull the slave and check the piston. I think it makes sense to rebuild the slave along with new friction plates too. Thanks again for the feedback.

[fj1289]

As I look at it again this morning - I assume you have figured out I meant the top picture, not bottom!

[chainsaw936]

Yes, figured it out. I was able to push the pushrod in with thumbs but it walks itself back out after a bit. Tells me the piston from slave isn't retracting as it should. My slave doesn't "weep" any fluids but figure I would put a new one in from RPM to be safe. Probably a matter of time before it fails as it is the original from 89.

[Sparky84]

Can detent roller and spring be installed with basket in?

[Pat Conlon]

Nope, it's behind the basket.

[fj1289]

Yes, figured it out. I was able to push the pushrod in with thumbs but it walks itself back out after a bit. Tells me the piston from slave isn't retracting as it should. My slave doesn't "weep" any fluids but figure I would put a new one in from RPM to be safe. Probably a matter of time before it fails as it is the original from 89.

No!  This is totally normal!  There is a spring behind the piston in the slave cylinder.  I assume (always dangerous!) the purpose is to take up the "slack" in the system.  That said, a new cylinder will last as long as you'll own the bike most likely - but doesn't seem to be needed right now.  I'd order it and keep it on the shelf for when yours does start leaking (they all will at some point - they live a rough life).  Then when you replace it, disassemble the one you have and see if the bore still looks good - if so get the rebuild kit and then put aside this one as the spare. 

If you could not push it back in, my concern would be the slave cylinder piston got over extended by actuating the clutch lever with no clutch installed.  Then the piston can get crooked and won't go back in normally.  

What you have is absolutely normal.  Assemble, ride, and Kookaloo - on!

[chainsaw936]

I'm ordering one to have as a spare and if it's not needed I'll have it when I need it down the road. Thanks again for the insight, this project is new for me to tackle. I'll put it together and see how the new detent upgrade works. Keep you posted.

[Sparky84]

Nope, it's behind the basket.

Thanks Pat   

I pullled the clutch basket and related items to make room for installing the new detent roller upgrade. Wow, Robert wasn't kidding, it's not an easy job and after struggling for a bit, I had my wife give me that extra set of hands to make things go. Then I found neutral, checked for the light on the dash and all is well.

Was the basket hard to remove?
I've got a detent kit to install.

I'll put it together and see how the new detent upgrade works. Keep you posted.

Keep us Posted. 

[Pat Conlon]

Was the basket hard to remove?

For me, the hardest part was *properly* securing the basket so you can remove the retaining nut.
There is a special wrench used to immobilize the basket.
If you cobble something together, you must take care not to break the tabs on the aluminum basket.

Like everything in life, the proper tool makes it an easy job. 

Cheers

[Sparky84]

Was the basket hard to remove?

For me, the hardest part was *properly* securing the basket so you can remove the retaining nut.
There is a special wrench used to immobilize the basket.
If you cobble something together, you must take care not to break the tabs on the aluminum basket.

Like everything in life, the proper tool makes it an easy job. 

Cheers

I believe I that theory also Pat, and try to do it.

So the nut comes out easy Once you've secured your basket?

I've got a set of these, someone else made it for the basket, just need to work out how to use them.
(I do know someone that has the proper holder tool also)

Cheers
Alan

[Dads_FJ]

Was the basket hard to remove?

For me, the hardest part was *properly* securing the basket so you can remove the retaining nut.
There is a special wrench used to immobilize the basket.
If you cobble something together, you must take care not to break the tabs on the aluminum basket.

Like everything in life, the proper tool makes it an easy job. 

Cheers

I believe I that theory also Pat, and try to do it.

So the nut comes out easy Once you've secured your basket?

I've got a set of these, someone else made it for the basket, just need to work out how to use them.
(I do know someone that has the proper holder tool also)

Cheers
Alan

I've used a copper penny or brass rod.  You wedge it between the mating gears of the crank and it will keep it from rotating and since it's a soft alloy it won't damage the teeth.  At least that's how I've done it on smaller displacement engines, it's been a while since I've been this deep in the FJ.

[ribbert]

Was the basket hard to remove?

For me, the hardest part was *properly* securing the basket so you can remove the retaining nut.
There is a special wrench used to immobilize the basket.
If you cobble something together, you must take care not to break the tabs on the aluminum basket.

Like everything in life, the proper tool makes it an easy job.  

Cheers

I believe I that theory also Pat, and try to do it.

So the nut comes out easy Once you've secured your basket?

I've got a set of these, someone else made it for the basket, just need to work out how to use them.
(I do know someone that has the proper holder tool also)

Cheers
Alan

I've used a copper penny or brass rod.  You wedge it between the mating gears of the crank and it will keep it from rotating and since it's a soft alloy it won't damage the teeth.  At least that's how I've done it on smaller displacement engines, it's been a while since I've been this deep in the FJ.

A rag between the gears is what I use, it's less likely to damage or break a tooth.
I have a preference for "shocking" nuts like that loose. If you don't have an impact wrench, a socket, bar and hammer will do. A sharp crack with the hammer on the bar will momentarily deliver an enormous force.
Progressively loading everything up while applying ever increasing force increases the risk of things breaking or slipping and is in principle a technique I don't like anywhere on a vehicle if avoidable..

If I had the special tool sitting on the floor next to me, I would still do it as above. Can I make it very clear that this is my preferred method. I'm not suggesting it is necessarily a better method for everyone.

My point is, it's a job that can be done without special tools if need be.

Noel

[krusty]

I've used both the rag and copper penny method and prefer the copper penny but it can depend on what I have at hand at the time. I made tool for my DT250 by welding a steel rod to an old clutch plate. My favourite device for dismantling engines it my trusty rattle gun.