Anyone running different carbs.

[racerrad8]

Until today, I've totally forgotten about them.  Perhaps Robert can track them down. If times get slow, he can learn all about a completely different model of Mikuni Carb.  

Don't worry, I know exactly where they are. Unfortunately, we have a NY bike to finish first...

Randy - RPM

[fj1289]

I stumbled on this fuel injection setup -

Randy - is that a mechanical FI setup?!  Very cool!

[Pat Conlon]

Until today, I've totally forgotten about them.  Perhaps Robert can track them down. If times get slow, he can learn all about a completely different model of Mikuni Carb.  

Don't worry, I know exactly where they are. Unfortunately, we have a NY bike to finish first...

Randy - RPM

No worries, I'm in no hurry at all.....

[FJ1200W]

Steve, those look cool but no way would they fit between the frame rails on our FJ's.
The XJR uses a backbone frame so there is plenty of room at the sides of the FI throttle bodies...not so with FJ's perimeter frame rails....how they taper in towards the seat.
Yes, of course the XJR throttle bodies matches the FJ cylinder spacing (same engine) but the throttle body assembly has a left side protuberance for the throttle position sensor...thus does not fit between the FJ frame rails.
That's why Randy went with the narrower FJR throttle bodies....that, and the fact that they are plentiful on FleaBay.

Cheers

Agreed on all counts.

What was ever decided on FZ1 throttle bodies? It sounded like the 1st gen carbs might work with custom intakes.

All dreamland too me, I'm on a cut throat budget. 

[Bozo]

Just fitted a set of 2001 FZ1 carburettors to my 3CV, I got these for a good price so I had nothing to loose. Background to my bike, wiseco 1219 kit ( done about 130K kms), Porting , standard valves, 36Y inlets matched to ports, Web cams - street, 4-1 Marving.
Anyway before fitting I following the Ivan's modifications, can't buy the kit in Oz so a bit of guess work was required. I drilled the slides for quicker response, set float levels from 12 to 14mm heights, drilled two idle jet ports. The choke cable is standard but the bracket on the carbies  was bent to clear the heat plate and the cable required a minor mod the screw down to the bracket
Fitting the FJ, the standard throttle cables fit direct, Carbies fit direct to intakes, even though the intake throats are 58mm vs 55 Standard the RPM dual socks fit with a bit of stretch.
The Carbies are about 15mm shorter so might be a problem if using a standard air filter box.
The Run, was done with an LM2 AFR meter fitted to a bung on the exhaust. Idle at 3.5 turns out was spot on at 14.7 hot. The bike ran around 13.2 to 13.5 cruising and 12.5 hard acceleration. So minor jetting required ( I fitted 128 mains from 132 standard, so I might fit 125) and pilot will go from 42.5 standard to 40.
The feel with current settings, from 50kph on top gear pulls clean, engine is smother, although seat of the pants feels stronger especially mid and top I won't make any claims until a dyno is done after re-jetting.

[Troyskie]

WOW mate, you don't mess around!

When are you planning the Dyno?

Any chance you and the missus will be over for the rally in Bermie next year?

Troyskie

[Bozo]

WOW mate, you don't mess around!

When are you planning the Dyno?

Any chance you and the missus will be over for the rally in Bermie next year?

Troyskie

Troyskie, we have bookings for the rally but all depends on the Little bugs behaving themselves.
As for the Dyno, I hope to get the jets soon and setup the carbies. At present (old carbs) I had 131RWhp, I don't expect huge leaps but it feels better than before. I should have the dyno run soon. I'll post the results here (if they are good), if not I'll go in the naughty corner, hang my head in shame and start riding a Virago.

[Bozo]

Update on FZ1 carbies.
The jetting is complete and the AFR through out the range is the best I've seen. Cruising, idle AFR is around 14.5, under acceleration around 13. The topend at about 7500rpm went lean at 15,  16 so eventually a 135 mains was fitted, the needle was dropped one notch (to lean lower end which was 13.4 cruising), all else remains. End of January I have a dyno booked. I hope to avoid the naughty corner (if power drops) the feeling is the opposite will happen. Honestly I expect a slight increase but the clean power without rich spots ( I had with std carb's).
Economy was better than before, cruising (varying speeds - not totally slow) I got 345kms for 18ltrs (exactly), I'd guess that under power this would change with the bigger jets.

Disclaimer - this setup suits my bike but don't expect the same for other setups. Was it worth it - hell ye, I now have as new carbies, whereas my old carb's were showing signs of requiring parts etc

[Bozo]

Dyno (by Dynotime in WA) results were impressive, top end 135RWHP (previous 131) but the most impressive was the way the power went up. The dyno graphs were a mixed bag because when the first power run was done it recorded 135 but after the poor clutch started to slip. I have a Barnett clutch with heavier than "severe heavy springs" (had them made through a company called Boynes in WA). I checked the plates and no damage detected so it only has slip when engine is not up to temperature.
At 6000rpm it was slightly rich 12 AFR so the curve dipped a bit and the top 8,000rpm up showed 14 AFR so I'll drop the needle a bit and raise the main jet size to 137.5 and then it should be good.
Fuel economy is excellent as long as full power is not used often (better than std- normal riding).
All in all this proved to be a winner for me, the only issue is the clutch but that should be ok as long as I don't power until running temp. I tried the twin pressure plate Yamaha version and I found it very heavy for my older muscles (or lack of). Maybe someone out there has a suggestion on making the clutch stronger without an ape pressing the lever for me.

[FJmonkey]

I tried the twin pressure plate Yamaha version and I found it very heavy for my older muscles (or lack of). Maybe someone out there has a suggestion on making the clutch stronger without an ape pressing the lever for me.

What master are you using for the clutch? Many that doubled up the OEM spring also went with a 14mm master and found the lever pull was closer to normal.

[Bozo]

I tried the twin pressure plate Yamaha version and I found it very heavy for my older muscles (or lack of). Maybe someone out there has a suggestion on making the clutch stronger without an ape pressing the lever for me.

What master are you using for the clutch? Many that doubled up the OEM spring also went with a 14mm master and found the lever pull was closer to normal.

I'll look into this, I have a clutch cylinder used on the ZZr1100 Kawasaki, I believe these are used on a lot of other models but not sure of the size. I have a similar clutch setup on my Standard FJ with std clutch cylinder and it does feel heavier to pull. Thankyou for your suggestion.

What is the standard FJ master size?

[ribbert]

Maybe someone out there has a suggestion on making the clutch stronger without an ape pressing the lever for me.

Bozo, unfortunately nothing's for free in physics, if you want an easier pull for a given pressure? a smaller diameter m/c will do it but it comes at the cost of a longer throw, that is, the take up point is now nearer the bars and the fully engaged position is further out. It is the hydraulic equivalent of using a longer bar to exert more rotational force, it makes it easier but the end of the bar has to move further. Many owners are not bothered by this and some are.

The nearest we get to cheating physics is an overcentre spring (like the standard spring or one of those clickers you had as a kid ) as opposed to coil springs which load up in a linear fashion.

Some years back I was in the early stages of fitting a small servo unit (brake booster) to an FJ clutch for an arthritis riddled owner to ease the clutch pull but unfortunately he died before I got too far into it. I've had occasion over the last year or so to revive my interest in the project for personal reasons. I had also considered using a "brake bomb" but in the interest of simplicity and cost, if I was doing it I would proceed with the servo. There are plenty of small cars from which one could be sourced from the wreckers for not much money. The plan was to mount it where the air box had been.

Noel

[Bozo]

I tried the twin pressure plate Yamaha version and I found it very heavy for my older muscles (or lack of). Maybe someone out there has a suggestion on making the clutch stronger without an ape pressing the lever for me.

What master are you using for the clutch? Many that doubled up the OEM spring also went with a 14mm master and found the lever pull was closer to normal.

My ZZR1100 Clutch master is a 14mm, as Ribbert stated the take-up is closer to the handlebar then the FJ master. Even with the Barnett springs it has a lighter pull so if the slip becomes an issue (I'll only run hard when hot) I'll have to revert to using two diaphragm plates. In case you are interested I'm using Penrite 5-40W MC oil.

[Bozo]

Maybe someone out there has a suggestion on making the clutch stronger without an ape pressing the lever for me.

Bozo, unfortunately nothing's for free in physics, if you want an easier pull for a given pressure? a smaller diameter m/c will do it but it comes at the cost of a longer throw, that is, the take up point is now nearer the bars and the fully engaged position is further out. It is the hydraulic equivalent of using a longer bar to exert more rotational force, it makes it easier but the end of the bar has to move further. Many owners are not bothered by this and some are.

The nearest we get to cheating physics is an overcentre spring (like the standard spring or one of those clickers you had as a kid ) as opposed to coil springs which load up in a linear fashion.

Some years back I was in the early stages of fitting a small servo unit (brake booster) to an FJ clutch for an arthritis riddled owner to ease the clutch pull but unfortunately he died before I got too far into it. I've had occasion over the last year or so to revive my interest in the project for personal reasons. I had also considered using a "brake bomb" but in the interest of simplicity and cost, if I was doing it I would proceed with the servo. There are plenty of small cars from which one could be sourced from the wreckers for not much money. The plan was to mount it where the air box had been.

Noel

Very interesting, let us know how you go. Maybe by then I'll need it.

[Pat Conlon]

I have a 1380cc FJ with the Barnett 82lb (green) springs and a FJR master.
No slip and the clutch pull is tolerable.