Piston Speed is the limiting factor?

[racerrad8]

As for the piston speed discussion, as usual, I'm flattered you seek out and value my views on technical matters, however, in this instance I thought it best to share it with just the few people who asked, with a caveat preventing it being re posted.

Noel

I am sorry to inform the FJ forum membership here, that Noel has decided to be selective with his "view on technical matters" (ie opinion) and share with his selected "few".

I guess, the majority of the FJ forum membership will never know why piston speed "is the limiting revs factor for a road going FJ engine" as Noel so eloquently pointed out at the very beginning of this topic....

A select few know, but they have accepted the secret code of Noel and must take his opinion bestowed upon them to their grave.

Randy - RPM

[ribbert]

I am sorry to inform the FJ forum membership here, that Noel has decided to be selective with his "view on technical matters" (ie opinion) and share with his selected "few".

I guess, the majority of the FJ forum membership will never know why piston speed "is the limiting revs factor for a road going FJ engine" as Noel so eloquently pointed out at the very beginning of this topic....

A select few know, but they have accepted the secret code of Noel and must take his opinion bestowed upon them to their grave.

Randy - RPM

Good to see you joining in the spirit of my post. A bit of not taking ourselves too seriously and lightening the mood in these trying times is good for the soul.

Noel

[Mike Ramos]

I am sorry to inform the FJ forum membership here, that Noel has decided to be selective with his "view on technical matters" (ie opinion) and share with his selected "few".

I guess, the majority of the FJ forum membership will never know why piston speed "is the limiting revs factor for a road going FJ engine" as Noel so eloquently pointed out at the very beginning of this topic....

A select few know, but they have accepted the secret code of Noel and must take his opinion bestowed upon them to their grave.

Randy - RPM

Good to see you joining in the spirit of my post. A bit of not taking ourselves too seriously and lightening the mood in these trying times is good for the soul.

Noel

Interesting discussion - before it winds down, how about another angle in regards to the FJ & technical matters.

Noel, you mention how you use your FJ in a robust manner in different situations and apparently on a frequent basis - so although absolute power may be limited (or not) for a particular reason & top speeds of particular models have already been discussed etc.

However based on your experience, what is the maximum SUSTAINED power output of the FJ engine?  It appears to be a strong engine by design, but other than a top end run, what can the FJ withstand on a continuous, high speed run.  Also, any limitations on how many high speed sustained excursions, again based on your personal experience, can be expected (from a mechanical aspect)?

Hopefully, you can lend your expertise to the masses as enquiring minds would like to know...!

Ride safe,

Midget

[CutterBill]

What is the maximum continuous power output of an FJ engine?  Oooo, what a good question!

Most vehicles do not have cooling systems large enough to deal with continuous full-throttle operation. (Your truck slowly pulling a heavy trailer up a very long hill, for instance.) But let's just say we fill an FJ with the very best synthetic oil made, and we add a bigger oil cooler so that the temperature is kept under control. And we will also assume we are running this bike on one of those huge paved oval tracks that the tire companies use for testing. And it's a cold day so the aluminum engine isn't melting. So the bike is running full-throttle with no let up, continuously, and not overheating.  Will the engine stay together? And how long will it stay together? Will the connecting rod bolts go past their endurance limit and break? At what RPM will those rod bolts stay below their endurance limit and therefore last forever?

What a great question... 
Bill

[fj1289]

What is the maximum continuous power output of an FJ engine?  Oooo, what a good question!

Most vehicles do not have cooling systems large enough to deal with continuous full-throttle operation. (Your truck slowly pulling a heavy trailer up a very long hill, for instance.) But let's just say we fill an FJ with the very best synthetic oil made, and we add a bigger oil cooler so that the temperature is kept under control. And we will also assume we are running this bike on one of those huge paved oval tracks that the tire companies use for testing. And it's a cold day so the aluminum engine isn't melting. So the bike is running full-throttle with no let up, continuously, and not overheating.  Will the engine stay together? And how long will it stay together? Will the connecting rod bolts go past their endurance limit and break? At what RPM will those rod bolts stay below their endurance limit and therefore last forever?

What a great question... 
Bill

I'll bet you'd have catastrophic tire failure from heat before the engine would give up! 

[Pat Conlon]

Other than putting a FJ engine on a dyno are running it to a point of failure, a close second are the FJ engines in those legend cars. Running WFO lap after lap pushing a 1250 lb. race car is about as stressful as you can get. The sideway mounted engines get so hot they twist, breaking the camshafts.....

[RPM - Robert]

At least 25 hours straight confirmed https://www.motorsport.com/roadracing/photos/18-rpm-legends-mark-bailey-randy-raduechel-mike-david-robert-1/131219/

[ribbert]

However based on your experience, what is the maximum SUSTAINED power output of the FJ engine?  It appears to be a strong engine by design, but other than a top end run, what can the FJ withstand on a continuous, high speed run.  Also, any limitations on how many high speed sustained excursions, again based on your personal experience, can be expected (from a mechanical aspect)?

Midget

Mike, I know you're just stirring the pot and having a bit of fun and were not expecting a reply but there are members too new to realise that and Randy's no doubt itchin' for ammo so you have me in a corner. I wouldn't want anyone to think I'm ignoring you.



#1 Question: "what is the maximum SUSTAINED power output of the FJ engine? "
The maximum sustained power output is the exactly the same as the minimum sustained power output. Duration does not affect power output, power doesn't continue to build the longer you run it.

#2 Question: "what can the FJ withstand on a continuous, high speed run."
The answer depends on your definition of "high speed" - compared to what....a car, a plane, a cyclist, a sloth.......? Speed is relative, and to your definition of "withstand" – what are we talking about here, unkind words, rider flatulence, sneers from Honda riders, one of your critiques.... What?

#3 Question:  "Also, any limitations on how many high speed sustained excursions"
Well, the the number of excursions, at any speed and of any duration, are limited by factors such as work, weather, family obligations, social engagements, availability......
As for "sustained excursions" how could a singular excursion not be sustained, if it wasn't sustained it would become multiple excursions.

Mike I'm suspicious of your authorship of this, even by your own admission, mechanical aptitude is not your forte but you do pride yourself on your writing and language skills. The clumsy writing above is not up to your standard and on both counts, just plain doesn't sound like you.
Does this (below) sound like someone who'd ask a techy question or be remotely interested in the answer? You have never before displayed any such interest or participated in such discussions.

However after several mishaps (e.g. I did not realize the airgun was in tighten mode and broke off a couple of case bolts (thank goodness for those EZ-OUT tools!) dropping the cams on the ground and braking a few fins off of the head - I may have stripped a spark plug as well; never use an air tool on the spark plugs!

...... Finally Randy said, "Little man, stay away from the mechanics" and had me take pictures.... 

Most of all though, even in your most critical posts the one thing we could rely on was that they'd be beautifully written and grammatically correct. In this regard, the above question is not something I can imagine flowing from your pen, not unless Capt Morgan co-authored it in the wee hours. 

Good to see you back on the forum Mike, I have missed your regular and unique input as I'm sure many others have.

Noel

[Pat Conlon]

Nice post Noel, but the question still remains:
*Why* do you think piston speed is the limiting factor in the power output of a FJ engine?

[racerrad8]

...and Randy's no doubt itchin' for ammo so you have me in a corner. I wouldn't want anyone to think I'm ignoring you.

Noel

Mike, you should feel special as Noel actually took the time to respond in the post when you asked a question. Up to this point, he has ignored me and everyone else.

Nice post Noel, but the question still remains:
*Why* do you think piston speed is the limiting factor in the power output of a FJ engine?

Pat, his post is just deflection from the original statement he posted, pure deflection by asking Mike questions and then telling him is doesn't have the "mechanical aptitude" and then questions if he authored the post.

Now, Noel can determine who wrote the post just by the content. So the next question for Noel, since he is diverting from answering the original question...

Noel, who wrote Mike's post from Mike's account?

I doubt he will answer either question about piston speed or who wrote Mike's post.

Maybe Mike's account was hacked by Klav or you, Pat or me or someone else on Noel's blocked PM list...

Maybe Noel's answer will help narrow down the culprit.

Randy - RPM

[FJ_Hooligan]

Guys. Really?

This is borderline childish, petty, and somewhat embarrassing. 

Agree to disagree or please take it off line.

[Pat Conlon]

Yea, no reason to kick the dead horse....

[racerrad8]

Guys. Really?

This is borderline childish, petty, and somewhat embarrassing.  

Agree to disagree or please take it off line.

David,

So far there is nothing to disagree with, Noel hasn't responded to his original stated position. We are just asking for the reason he made the statement he made for all to see.

Now, as far as taking to to PM, that won't work either... We are blocked by Noel.

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Klavdy
Pat Conlon
racerrad8
Mike Ramos
ZOA NOM
copper

As far as embarrassment, you are correct. Myself, Pat, Mike and any anyone else who has responded in the topic for Noel's opinion based on his statement, I am sorry we are not part of Noel's chosen few to be able to learn from his expansive knowledge.

So, effective today I will be locking this topic since there is nothing else to see or learn from Noel's original statement.

Any further comment or statement from Noel regarding piston speed will be deleted.

If you have any questions, concerns or feel this topic should not be locked, please PM me directly.

Now you guys, stop acting childish and embarrassing David.

Randy - RPM