Fuel line replacement; The sequel

[Tuned forks]

Rick, does the dealer have the proper spring tension clamps as well?

Believe it or not fellas, there is no longer a Yamaha dealer near SF, at least that I can find.

Joe

[ribbert]

Rick, does the dealer have the proper spring tension clamps as well?

Believe it or not fellas, there is no longer a Yamaha dealer near SF, at least that I can find.

Joe

For those that may not know what Joe's referring to, it's these, fuel line clips.



These are the only thing you should be using on your fuel line, NOT small worm drive hose clamps and NEVER twitched wire.

Noel

[X-Ray]

Can you let me know why with the worm drive clamps Noel? Thats all I have used on parts of the fuel line, I don't overtighten the worm drive clamps,  but the fuel line "clips" when I tried them seemed to be too loose fitting for my liking? Maybe the ones I had in the toolbox were too old etc.

[ZOA NOM]

Rick, does the dealer have the proper spring tension clamps as well?

Believe it or not fellas, there is no longer a Yamaha dealer near SF, at least that I can find.

Joe

I bought an assortment of those clamps online off Amazon, I think.



The closest Yamaha dealer for me is in Tracy.

[ribbert]

Can you let me know why with the worm drive clamps Noel? Thats all I have used on parts of the fuel line, I don't overtighten the worm drive clamps,  but the fuel line "clips" when I tried them seemed to be too loose fitting for my liking? Maybe the ones I had in the toolbox were too old etc.

Ray, I found this on the net, conveniently already written to someone called Ray.

Ray, worm drive clamps never tighten perfectly round. It is common that the more you tighten them, the more out of round they become the more they will leak if relying on the clamp to provide the seal. Almost everyone over tightens them which not only makes them even more out of round, it more often than not cuts the hose.

Gravity or low pressure systems, as the name implies, are not under much pressure, all being well, the hose pushed onto the fitting should adequately prevent leakage, the clip is only to prevent the hose coming off by not allowing the hose to expand on the other side of the barb, preventing it coming off.
I can understand you thinking they should be tighter. It is unlikely the clips you tried have lost tension through age though, more likely they are just the wrong size. The clips do not need to be very tight to do the job as intended.

I suspect the reason you've never had a problem is, you don't overtighten the worm drive clamps and if the hose is good, the seal is achieved when you push it over the fitting.

I've removed a lot of hoses that were cut from overtightened clamps, particularly SS ones, they are much sharper on the edges and the worm drive.
You have probably seen hose bulging out of the worm drive slots of over tightened clamps on something. The smaller diameter clamps tend to have the same size worm drive as the larger ones so the same force can be exerted over a much smaller area.



Ray, when I recommend using fuel clips instead of worm drive clamps, I am talking about best pratice and eliminating risk with improper fitting, not suggesting your bike will go up in a ball of flame if you don't change them over immediately.

Personally, if I didn't have fuel line clips but I did have a box of the right size worm drive clamps, it was Sunday afternoon, it was my own vehicle and I was keen to get it back on the road........I'd go and buy a packet of the proper clips! I have seen way too many hoses cut by clamps, admittedly all from over tightening, but that's what folks do, tighten the shit out them.

Noel

[Old Rider]

[/quote]

Ray, I found this on the net, conveniently already written to someone called Ray.

Ray, worm drive clamps never tighten perfectly round. It is common that the more you tighten them, the more out of round they become the more they will leak if relying on the clamp to provide the seal. Almost everyone over tightens them which not only makes them even more out of round, it more often than not cuts the hose.

Gravity or low pressure systems, as the name implies, are not under much pressure, all being well, the hose pushed onto the fitting should adequately prevent leakage, the clip is only to prevent the hose coming off by not allowing the hose to expand on the other side of the barb, preventing it coming off.
I can understand you thinking they should be tighter. It is unlikely the clips you tried have lost tension through age though, more likely they are just the wrong size. The clips do not need to be very tight to do the job as intended.

I suspect the reason you've never had a problem is, you don't overtighten the worm drive clamps and if the hose is good, the seal is achieved when you push it over the fitting.

I've removed a lot of hoses that were cut from overtightened clamps, particularly SS ones, they are much sharper on the edges and the worm drive.
You have probably seen hose bulging out of the worm drive slots of over tightened clamps on something. The smaller diameter clamps tend to have the same size worm drive as the larger ones so the same force can be exerted over a much smaller area.



Ray, when I recommend using fuel clips instead of worm drive clamps, I am talking about best pratice and eliminating risk with improper fitting, not suggesting your bike will go up in a ball of flame if you don't change them over immediately.

Personally, if I didn't have fuel line clips but I did have a box of the right size worm drive clamps, it was Sunday afternoon, it was my own vehicle and I was keen to get it back on the road........I'd go and buy a packet of the proper clips! I have seen way too many hoses cut by clamps, admittedly all from over tightening, but that's what folks do, tighten the shit out them.

Noel
[/quote]

I use the one to the left on the picture never had problems with them and they thighten in a perfect circle (i have tested that)
There is something wrong with the picture it shows that the clamp to the left is making worm drive marks in the fuelline but that is fake.
About the fuel line i recomend buying a good quality one that tolerate ethanol .

[ribbert]

There is something wrong with the picture it shows that the clamp to the left is making worm drive marks in the fuelline but that is fake.

No, it is simply showing how the wrong clamps (worm drive) damage the hose and then, which clamps you should be using.

Noel

[Millietant]

Just to be clear for everyone, I'd think the clamps on the left (although "screw" type) are just as acceptable as the spring clamps Rick noted and put the Amazon link for, as long as they're not overtightened !

Would that be right

[ZOA NOM]

Would that be right

Yes, I've used those as well.

[racerrad8]

There is something wrong with the picture it shows that the clamp to the left is making worm drive marks in the fuelline but that is fake.

No, it is simply showing how the wrong clamps (worm drive) damage the hose and then, which clamps you should be using.

Noel

Noel,

How is that hose damaged? Please explain.

I mean the worm drive hose clamp was first patented in 1896 by a Swedish inventor. So more than 100 years of use from small to big, there is nothing wrong with the screw type hose clamp. No matter which hose you are using.

Now, with the technology changing regarding fuel hose, yes the worm type clamps might not be the best clamp application, but it will work properly as a clamp when the right size clamp and the proper torque is applied.

I believe that to be the case with the Yamaha FJ original equipment fuel hose. The hose is not a two layer hose with a nylon support mesh between the layers.

Just like with brake hoses, the outer layer of "traditional" fuel line is the out protective sheath. The rubber is pliable to seal properly using the worm type clamp and the outer sheath protruding from the holes in the clamp do not cause any issue.

Hell, even stainless steel safety wire can be a proper clamp is applied properly.

Spring clamps are what is supplied by Yamaha on their fuel lines. But with that fuel line being unobtainable, people are changing over to traditional flue hose. Two layers with the nylon mesh and the incorrect "spring" clamp could me more detrimental than using a worn drove clamp. If the spring clamp cannot properly compress the outer layer and the nylon mesh, the the fuel line could leak or come off.

Finally, if you are under the assumption that the solid clamp on the left tightens perfectly around the hose, you are incorrect. Take one and tighten it completely without any hose inside. Then use your veneer calipers to check to see how out of round it is, you might be surprised.

The only two true consistently circular pressure clamps are spring steel clamps and safety wire.

But regardless of what clamp you use, if the clamps is too large for the application the clamping forces out of round a greatly exaggerated.

Noel, let me know what is wrong with that hose in the picture you provided that you can identify as a problem.

Randy - RPM