FJ prices

[Millietant]

Yeah - a recent enquiry on a RR version left me with a price of £15, 594, which at today's exchange rates is getting on for $21k.

They're advertised in "special deals" as being available for £11,995 - but that's only if you buy under their personal finance plans, which mean you end up paying the same amount at the end, what with fees and interest. When I said I'd like to buy for cash, the answer was that there wouldn't be the discount that they can offer with the finance deals  

For the factory version on the same basis would cost £19,552 - i.e. Over $26k - the advertised "special deal" price was £15,995, but again, the discount wasn't available for a cash purchase.

I'm happy to stick with older, big bore bikes with carbs - I can deal with these myself and anyway, what's the joy in owning a bike when all you can really do to "improve" it is buy off the shelf parts from accessory manufacturers or specialists (rather than buying parts that you have to make fit and which actually do "improve" the bike). There's a certain satisfaction in this that I just can't get from a new bike (my RSV was totally stock except for an aftermarket can, after 15 years of ownership !!!). I like to spend too much time with spanners, screwdrivers, files, etc - or as Liz says - I like to spend time in the garage "polishing my nuts".

[Pat Conlon]

I'm happy to stick with older, big bore bikes with carbs - I can deal with these myself and anyway, what's the joy in owning a bike when all you can really do to "improve" it is buy off the shelf parts from accessory manufacturers or specialists (rather than buying parts that you have to make fit and which actually do "improve" the bike). There's a certain satisfaction in this that I just can't get from a new bike.

Bingo! Well said

[PaulG]

I think you're right on the money there Joe - but I really don't get why piles of crap from the 1970's that have had their performance "reduced", by daft modifications to the inlet and exhaust, such as the old Kawasaki Z400/440 twins, Honda CX 500's and other small bore "buckets" with exhaust wrap and knobbly tyres, cost more than a decent FJ to buy - and it seems the buyers were too young to be around in the 70's who are buying them at such ridiculous prices !
.........

It's because of this guy

[Troyskie]

C-mon fellas, our beasts may be oooooold, but they still have more performance than most riders have ability (me included), EVEN in stock shit set-up.

[rlucas]

OK, I can't stop thinking about this...I wonder if plasti-gauge might work?  Anyone ever try something like this?  You'd have to figure out how to depress the valve to insert the PG and then release it to squash the strip....hmmmmm

My very first thought, as well. Having never used PlastiGauge (or done a valve adjustment on anything since the '64 Rambler I used to own), I just wonder about the potential for altering the measurement when removing the PlastiGauge...

Someone needs to give this a shot.

[ribbert]

This thread got me thinking...(dangerous, I know).  What the world needs is a vernier type device that you place between the cam lobe and the top of the tappet that you can dial in and get the precise gap.  No fussing with multiple shims and trying to get the right "feel".  Take your numbers and calculate the exact change in shim size that you need.  I hate to tell you how many times I had to pull the cam shafts multiple times to fix an improper shim selection.....

Someone beat you to it......the perfect measuring tool already exists, what could possibly be easier, quicker or more accurate?



If you are pulling your camshafts multiple times to correct the wrong shim selection the fault is not with the measuring tool (I don't even understand this..??).

It would not be difficult to do with plastigauge but why would you bother. Good on you for thinking outside the square but it just turns a simple job into a complicated one. If you want to measure a gap, what can be simpler than inserting a measuring tool designed for just that application?

Noel

Noel

[ribbert]

I am put off by carburetors. They are annoying and can be finicky. 

There is no doubt FI is a great improvement, even from it earliest days it offered performance enhancement and was trouble free for the life of the vehicle, but the issues you speak of caused by carbies is IMO greatly over stated. Once set up with proper filtration and supply and tuned, that should be the end of it for a very long time.

Noel

[Motofun]

This thread got me thinking...(dangerous, I know).  What the world needs is a vernier type device that you place between the cam lobe and the top of the tappet that you can dial in and get the precise gap.  No fussing with multiple shims and trying to get the right "feel".  Take your numbers and calculate the exact change in shim size that you need.  I hate to tell you how many times I had to pull the cam shafts multiple times to fix an improper shim selection.....

Someone beat you to it......the perfect measuring tool already exists, what could possibly be easier, quicker or more accurate?



If you are pulling your camshafts multiple times to correct the wrong shim selection the fault is not with the measuring tool (I don't even understand this..??).

It would not be difficult to do with plastigauge but why would you bother. Good on you for thinking outside the square but it just turns a simple job into a complicated one. If you want to measure a gap, what can be simpler than inserting a measuring tool designed for just that application?

Noel

Noel

I have at least 3 sets of feeler gauges but I still seem to get a problem finding the one gauge that accurately "just" fits.  It seems I'm always interpolating between one that's too big and one that's too loose.  Then, when I calculate the correct replacement shim it is nothing more than an educated guess.  I put the whole thing back together, remeasure, and don't like the results.  Do it over....arrggg.  Perhaps I don't have the right touch with the feeler gauge?  Sometimes I can sort of force a gauge into the gap but I figure that's not proper either.  The factory must have a better way of doing this.  I can't believe they spend the amount of time on this that I do.
I'll add that I mic all my shims and find that the markings on them are only close, there is quite a bit of variation.

[ribbert]

I have at least 3 sets of feeler gauges but I still seem to get a problem finding the one gauge that accurately "just" fits.  It seems I'm always interpolating between one that's too big and one that's too loose.  Then, when I calculate the correct replacement shim it is nothing more than an educated guess.  I put the whole thing back together, remeasure, and don't like the results.  Do it over....arrggg.  Perhaps I don't have the right touch with the feeler gauge?  Sometimes I can sort of force a gauge into the gap but I figure that's not proper either.  The factory must have a better way of doing this.  I can't believe they spend the amount of time on this that I do.

Something doesn't sound right here. You just keep increasing (or decreasing) the thickness of the feelers until they fit snugly.  "Then, when I calculate the correct replacement shim it is nothing more than an educated guess" This should not be the case, it is just simple arithmetic, no guess work about it. I would strongly advise working entirely in one system eg Metric, rather than a mish mash of both, converting as you go, that is asking for trouble.
Have you watched any on-line tutorials and why are you pulling the cams?

Noel

[T Legg]

Apparently motofun needs to buy a hold down tool.I know some don't like imperial measurements but I've never found it difficult to use.I look for a tight .005" for intakes and a loose .006" for exhaust.not much of a problem.When calculating shims it's one easy conversion factor and an addition or subtraction problem and you have your new shim.

[Pat Conlon]

I'm with Noel....I don't understand what you guys are talking about. It's not about measurements.

The process for measuring the cam to lifter clearance with the FJ's shim over bucket (SOB) is the same as an engine with the shim under bucket (SUB)

The problem come in when it becomes time to change the shims.
Currently we use the tool to hold our spring down so we can slide out the shim.

With the SUB engine to get to the shim, you have to remove the bucket first (because the shim is under the bucket).
To remove the bucket you have to loosen the timing chains and remove the cams, thus the added hassle and costs. 

[oldktmdude]

I have at least 3 sets of feeler gauges but I still seem to get a problem finding the one gauge that accurately "just" fits.  It seems I'm always interpolating between one that's too big and one that's too loose.  Then, when I calculate the correct replacement shim it is nothing more than an educated guess.  I put the whole thing back together, remeasure, and don't like the results.  Do it over....arrggg.  Perhaps I don't have the right touch with the feeler gauge?  Sometimes I can sort of force a gauge into the gap but I figure that's not proper either.  The factory must have a better way of doing this.  I can't believe they spend the amount of time on this that I do.
I'll add that I mic all my shims and find that the markings on them are only close, there is quite a bit of variation.

The size feeler gauges we need to adjust shims come in .001 increments, so you are loosing sleep over being half of one thou out. In the real world half a thou will not make even the tiniest bit of a difference to your valve adjustment. Feller gauges either fit or not fit into a gap, if it feels tight, deduct half a thou from the measurement, if it feels slightly loose, add half a thou to the measurement. Very simple until you start to over-think it!
Just my take on the situation.
   Regards, Pete.

[Motofun]

OK OK...UNCLE!  All I know is I have done multiple shim under bucket valve adjusts.  I'm an engineer and not exactly stupid (though don't ask the wife!)....I have always run afoul of the measurements after making shim adjustments....I think I'm cursed, I must have pissed off the gods somehow.  I can design a nuclear reactor without fault, calculate reactivity coefficients to the nth degree....somehow the shim adjustments have me by the bollocks.  Next time I'm going to buy some chicken bones before attempting this......Don't tell my kids who I schooled in math....they would never let me live it down.   

[Sparky84]

OK OK...UNCLE!  All I know is I have done multiple shim under bucket valve adjusts.  I'm an engineer and not exactly stupid (though don't ask the wife!)....I have always run afoul of the measurements after making shim adjustments....I think I'm cursed, I must have pissed off the gods somehow.  I can design a nuclear reactor without fault, calculate reactivity coefficients to the nth degree....somehow the shim adjustments have me by the bollocks.  Next time I'm going to buy some chicken bones before attempting this......Don't tell my kids who I schooled in math....they would never let me live it down.   

I know this is a dumb question but are you combining feeler gauge blades to make the intermediate sizes?
I know with the feeler gauge I have sometimes needs 2 blades to get the exact gap!

[Pat Conlon]

I have always run afoul of the measurements after making shim adjustments....I think I'm cursed, I must have pissed off the gods somehow.

I drove myself crazy the first time with my FJ. It made no sense at all.
What I learned (the hard way) was, not to re-measure immediately after you change the shims.
You will get wrong readings every time.

Measure the clearances twice, check your numbers, then put in the correct shims and call it a day.

If you really feel the need to re-measure the clearance after the shim change, you've got to button things up first, run the engine up to temp, let it cool overnight, then open it back up, only then re-measure.
Randy mentioned something about oil pooling in the buckets when you pull the old shims out.
You know that oil that squirts you in the eye when you roll the cam lobes? That oil.
You gotta run the engine up to temp to get the new shims fully seated before you re-measure....
...and of course, your measurements should be on a stone cold engine.

This is with the FJ's SOB engine, I wonder if something similar happens with a SUB engine?
..... although I don't see how oil would pool in the upside down bucket.
With the necessary cam removal, perhaps dry cam journals is affecting the re-measurement?