Two way radios

[Pat Conlon]

Yea, good question Randy.
I reviewed Marsh's 2006 comments and I recall that this was the first time where someone wrote that the VOX feature actually worked worth a damn.
On other units, many folks have commented that the wind noise inside the helmet would activate the VOX causing disgruntled riders in the group who share the same channel.

I recall back then (2006) that it was the general consensus of the group that a PTT was the only reliable way to activate the radio.

Is this still true?

TIA

[Dan Filetti]

Randy-

If all you are doing is bike to bike, and not cell phone, music/ mp3, radar detector and GPS inputs, or driver-passenger communication then the 'kits' you require will be really simple, and nicely, cheap too.  You may be able to get what you need directly from your radio manufacturer.  All you really need for each rider/ bike is a radio, with a remote speaker, mic, and optionally a PTT switch.  If you're willing to take you had off the bars to use the radio, you can even forgo the PTT switch and just key the radio itself by hand to talk.  I've done this, it's not too bad.

As for whether you can use your existing radios, it's going to depend on whether they have the ability to hook in an external mic and speaker(s) and PTT -which is going to depend on the make and whether you can source a generic or from-the-manufacturer, set of the external components.

Baring that, most manufacturers of 'kits' offer simplified versions of their flag ships, for bike to bike only.

If one of the two of you does all the talking and the other simply wants to listen, then you only need one rider with a kit/ external componets and one radio with an external speaker and no kit.  Most radios will accommodate this.  

In reality, I suspect you will struggle finding a radio/ external mic/ speakers only for your existing radios, unless they happen to be Kenwoods, then I believe they make a setup to be used without a 'kit'.  As I remember, and it has been a while so check me on this, I think they were not cheap.  Expensive enough to look seriously at 'kits'.

Kit names to look at:

Beahr
Starcom
Autocom
Motcomm
Chatterbox (outside of the helmet)
Collett (outside of the helmet)
J&P
Nady
J&M

If money were no object, I'd think I'd buy the Beahr or the Starcom, or possibly the J&M.

Hope that helps.

Dan

[Dan Filetti]

I recall back then (2006) that it was the general consensus of the group that a PTT was the only reliable way to activate the radio.

Is this still true?

I have never seen one that works well, and been the recipient of another riders' 'false opening' mic.  It sucks.

Maybe the technology has come around, I just can't vouch for it.

Dan

[Pat Conlon]

I recall back then (2006) that it was the general consensus of the group that a PTT was the only reliable way to activate the radio.

Is this still true?

I have never seen one that works well, and been the recipient of another riders' 'false opening' mic.  It sucks.

Maybe the technology has come around, I just can't vouch for it.

Dan

Dan, are you talking about a PTT switch being unreliable.... or are you talking about VOX being unreliable?

[rktmanfj]

I recall back then (2006) that it was the general consensus of the group that a PTT was the only reliable way to activate the radio.

Is this still true?

I have never seen one that works well, and been the recipient of another riders' 'false opening' mic.  It sucks.

Maybe the technology has come around, I just can't vouch for it.

Dan

Dan, are you talking about a PTT switch being unreliable.... or are you talking about VOX being unreliable?

I think he's talking about VOX.

BTW, Uniden radios automatically go into VOX whenever a mic is plugged in.  DAMHIKIJK.       

Randy T
Indy

[Dan Filetti]

Correct -it VOX that seems unreliable.  (PTT works great) In principal it is only supposed to open the mic for you, when you begin speaking.  In my experience, it opens the mic when you do not want it -especially when you goose the motor/ road noise increases, and consequently, everyone else you're riding with get's to hear you breath, and the sound of your motor through their speakers.  Oh, and because there IS a mic opened, sometimes for extended periods of time, no one else can even call you to tell you to turn the damn thing off...  It can be frustrating.

Not great.

I'd love to know that this issue has been fixed, and that someone has resolved it well, but motorcycles generate an awful lot of noise, especially at speed.  Noise canceling, and differentiation from voice needs to be fairly sophisticated, and I just have yet to see it work well.  Marsh did say he has so I'll await updated feedback from him on this. 

[ribbert]

Get with the times!
Expensive, hardwired, push to talk bike to bike radios are out. I have been using a Scala Q2 - (Bluetooth) for the last 3 years (before they became popular) and could not recomend it highly enough. The entire unit is helmet mounted - look it up on the net- a single charge is good for about 600 -700 km's of constant chatter, I have my GPS, phone and intercom programmed into it and can prioritise their order, this could also include mp3 player. It's good for about 700m line of sight transmission. Mine has done about 40,000 km's and my riding buddy's about 100,000.( original batteries)  I can't think of a single area of performance or convenience that could be improved on - and their relatively cheap! I researched every system on the market and could not be happier with my choice. Being voice activated and two -way talk it like talking on the phone. I can also make and receive voice activated phone calls. It was so cheap compared the other systems I was prepared to give it a shot and throw it away if it was no good. Check it out.
I Just read Dan Filetti's post while typing this, bike and wind noise have never been a problem with unintentional mike activation even at high speeds.

Noel

[racerrad8]

Noel,

Ironically after I posted my questions, my wife showed me the Scala Q4;
http://www.cardosystems.com/us/scala-rider/scala-rider-g4-powerset

I am going to do some more research and see if this type of system is the one for us.

Thank you to everyone who offer suggestions.

Randy - RPM

[Marsh White]

My experience with those types of helmet mounted battery powered systems is that they just don't have the amplification power to the speakers to hear well at anything above 30-35 mph.  In town use only in other words.  They are the same as hooking up speakers or earbuds (without an AMP) to an mp3 player or walkman (or two way radio directly even) or the like.

Then again - I was a musician for the majority of my life and I'm probably half deaf...   YMMV

I like to protect what hearing I have so I wear custom earplugs and then have speakers (powered by a Starcom AMP) over those.  I know the audio quality is better with in ear speakers (ear buds or custom ear plugs with ear buds in them)...but I just hate all of the hassle and wiring involved in putting on my helmet and taking it off...

[ribbert]

I also have poor hearing (80-85%) in one ear only from a medical condition. I also have professionally made (audiologist) custom plugs. My FJ has the "finned" screen and the combination of that, and my helmet, is so noisy that without the plugs the noise becomes pain - literally- from about 140+ (kph). intense enough to make me back off while overtaking sometimes.  However, even with the plugs, at those speeds (on full volume) I can hear very well and imagine a better fairing/helmet combo, that would be ANY other combo would not even require full volume.

[ribbert]

Randy,

I should point out that my unit is the earlier one and the current Q4 is much more powerful so it should be even better!

Noel

[andyb]

Double check the local laws if you're using these for music or communications.  In the states:

CA - Single earphone only
FL - No earplugs, speakers in helmet ok
GA - No music, communication only
IL - No music, communication only
MD - Single earphone only
MA - Speakers under helmet illegal
MN - single earphone only
NY - single earphone only
OR - some cities have restriction, state does not
PA - Communication only (earplugs are illegal it seems even!)
RI - speakers under helmet illegal
VA - Communication okay, earplugs illegal (?!)


May not be entirely up to date, but gives you a starting point.  States not listed = no restrictions.

[Dan Filetti]

I also have poor hearing (80-85%) in one ear only from a medical condition. I also have professionally made (audiologist) custom plugs. My FJ has the "finned" screen and the combination of that, and my helmet, is so noisy that without the plugs the noise becomes pain - literally- from about 140+ (kph). intense enough to make me back off while overtaking sometimes.  However, even with the plugs, at those speeds (on full volume) I can hear very well and imagine a better fairing/helmet combo, that would be ANY other combo would not even require full volume.

Noel-

This is interesting.  To date, I have not been so much of a fan of outside the helmet systems, they seem klunky and an affront to aerodynamics, possible obstruction for neck/ arm range of motion...  I don't know any of this first hand, but I had ruled them out before for similar reasons -additionally, chatterbox was reported to be fairly unsable too.

How about radios.  Do you know, if you're riding with a larger group, all with different radios FRS, GMRS can you also talk with them?  I suspect it's an FRS type, based on the published range, but it would be a non-starter for me if everyone in the group needed one of these to do bike-to-bike.  Is it frequency (Kenneth) proprietary or open as with other radios.

Can you let me know? 

Thanks

Dan     

[Dan Filetti]

Double check the local laws if you're using these for music or communications.  In the states:

CA - Single earphone only
FL - No earplugs, speakers in helmet ok
GA - No music, communication only
IL - No music, communication only
MD - Single earphone only
MA - Speakers under helmet illegal
MN - single earphone only
NY - single earphone only
OR - some cities have restriction, state does not
PA - Communication only (earplugs are illegal it seems even!)
RI - speakers under helmet illegal
VA - Communication okay, earplugs illegal (?!)


May not be entirely up to date, but gives you a starting point.  States not listed = no restrictions.

Good to know.

Dan

[Marsh White]

I have been on business cell phone calls while riding the FJ at freeway speed with the Starcom where the other person had no idea I was not sitting in my office.  My client was utterly floored when I told him I was riding a motorcycle while talking with him.

On another note - if it is true that the Scala can have the amplification power necessary to actually hear conversations at speeds above 65mph that would be truly significant and awesome!  However; I still remain a skeptic.  Klavdy and I both tried them once and we both thought they were shit - we couldn't hear crap at speed.  Maybe we had a 1st gen model or something...but we got rid of them...it was a couple of years ago.