Splitting the cases

[Troyskie]

The top end doesn't look too bad.

The valves seem in order, and I didn't see any obvious scoring of the bores.

From what you posted about the compression I think the top end is fine.

The carbon build up doesn't look out of the ordinary. The wet oil residue is likely left over from the compression test. The plugs look like it was running right.

Have you looked at the cam chain guide? I recently heard of and saw photos of a pretty messed up guide, but the bike still ran! Literally the guide was chewed up and not doing anything much for the cam chain.

When you dropped the sump was there much metal in the pick-up filter or on the magnet?

I'm a little bit opposite to Mark, I've done a top end, but never split the cases  .

The engine studs can be a little bit corroded and look bad. Mine were similar to yours.

Instead of replacing them, check them against one of your good ones. Do a tuning fork tap against a vice and you'll instantly know if they're sound (pun intended ). If they're too hard to remove pluck them from the tops like giant bass strings, the 'twang' should be the same. Before putting them back (or in place if you didn't remove them), instead of the 'guaranteed to fail' plastic coating, coat them in the black paint you use on combustion stoves (pot belly black here). It will give them some corrosion protection and allow the studs to grow a thin layer of oxide (that paint is intentionally porous) that will further protect them. Around the threads I rubbed some soft zinc off a boat anode to act as a sacrificial coating between the dissimilar metals of the nut and stud. Not perfect, but then neither was Yamaha.

If any of the studs are buggered, replace them. Randy can sort you out.

Between you and Mark, I might just attempt a case split........when I need to.....too busy getting things painted (nope, can't paint either  )

Troyskie

[Old Rider]

Hi Troskye!  god to hear your opinion i had expected more carbon build up or something more serious wrong but looks ok at first look.I will do a test laying the head uppsidedown and
pour some gasoline into the combustion cambers and se if it leak somewhere.Not to keen on starting to do to much work on the valves but i think mayby the springs have gotten weak and short and need replacement .
The camchain guide in front is a little cracked and  hard like bone.I was surprised i did not find more metal or gravel in the sump because the last 2 oilshifts i done was about 5 big pieces of a unidentified stuff locked like metal at first but after a wash the bits looked like gravel some of them was magnetic some not.I did only find som very small particles .May by the stuff from oilpan has gotten another place in engine as i rolled it.I havent yet filtered the oil i drained on deassembly but i will.
The oil pickup filter had some small things in it nothing magnetic and the mesh had gone loose so the mesh did not seal. The magnet on the drainplug did not have any stuff on it.
The oil on syl one pick is just because i sprayed it with wd-40 instead og the airduster spray.
Today I got problem when i tryed to get the cylinders off.I have hit them with a rubber hammer and with a ordinary hammer and wood.Then i tryed with some spring compressors as pullers
also with a flywheel puller nothing worked.The screw on the pickupcoil base also super tight bot came lose.If i knew that the bolt was so tight i would have loosened it before i tok the engine out.The other screws on the picupcoil was rounded so had to use a punch on them.
Now im scratching my head trying to find out if i can just leave the cylinders on and pull the crankshaft with the pistons on and if it is possible to get the crankshaft back in with the piston on ?. Tok some pics i tested resize them

[Troyskie]

The barrels can be hard to remove. Some of the dowels can corrode like the studs and lock the barrels on. Try the WD40 trick in their locations.

I'm not sure you can remove the crank with the barrels on. Here's a pic from Marks & my bible the Haynes manual. I think the nuts will be hard to reach and probably harder to re tighten to correct torque.

Why are you worried about the valve springs? If the shims and compression are within tolerance the springs should be ok. If you're concerned I've included a pic from Haynes with the spring info.

[Pat Conlon]

Why are you worried about the valve springs?

For the same reason we change our fork springs. Springs get sacked after 30 years, esp. oem Japanese steel springs. True, new valve springs will not help compression/ leak down numbers, but new (modern steel) springs will help keep valve float away in the 8k-10k rpm kookaloo zone.

Old Rider, I suggest calling or emailing RPM and inquire about new valve springs, viton valve seals, hardened valve guides. DIY or send your head and valves out and have it decarboned and lap the valves. (If the valve boundaries and seats are in good condition)

Learn yourself, or get professional help on measuring your cylinder bore for wear and roundness.
This will dictate whether you can get away with a simple a cylinder wall hone (DIY) or needing an over bore (shop) along with figuring out what size new rings you need.

You've come this far. It would be a shame to leave everything as is, do all this work and end up with a reassembled engine that has future problems.

Just my opinion.   Cheers.  Pat

[dammag]

How did your exhaust valves look, looking into the exhaust port?

When I fitted my new exhaust last weekend I noticed a couple of the valves were a little "wet". This this on a relatively low mileage motor so I would expect you would replace the valve seals at least as a matter of course. And springs as well while it is apart.

[racerrad8]

About the cranseals.. do they have to replaced ? are the new  seals without the flange and if do i have to use high temp silicone like yamabond or threebond on them when reasemble?
Is there a way to identify the shiftforks if they are before or after 1988 ? i bought a used transmision from ebay that supposed to come from a 1992 or 1994 fj1200 ABS.i suspect that transmission is not so good mayby worn.The previus owner of my bike had done some transmission work i dont know what.

I would say yes the seals should be replaced. They are 30 years old. Plus you have now disturbed them and they will most likely leak.

No sealant is required for the new seals, but just like on every corner joint, I put a little Permatex Ultra Black Silicone there to prevent leaks.
https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/ultra-series-gasket-makers/permatex-ultra-black-maximum-oil-resistance-rtv-silicone-gasket-maker-4/

You can just look at the shift forks on the website and compare what you have to what is the current Yamaha offering. They are significantly shorter forks compared to the current forks.

Randy - RPM

[racerrad8]

Now im scratching my head trying to find out if i can just leave the cylinders on and pull the crankshaft with the pistons on and if it is possible to get the crankshaft back in with the piston on ?. Tok some pics i tested resize them

No can do...

The pistons will not come through the case.

Did you pull the nut off the stud in the front of the block?

The was on some of the intakes valves looks odd to me.

Randy - RPM

[Troyskie]

Why are you worried about the valve springs?

For the same reason we change our fork springs. Springs get sacked after 30 years, esp. oem Japanese steel springs. True, new valve springs will not help compression/ leak down numbers, but new (modern steel) springs will help keep valve float away in the 8k-10k rpm kookaloo zone.

Old Rider, I suggest calling or emailing RPM and inquire about new valve springs, viton valve seals, hardened valve guides. DIY or send your head and valves out and have it decarboned and lap the valves. (If the valve boundaries and seats are in good condition)

Just my opinion.   Cheers.  Pat

That's a good opinion Pat.

I did replace my springs with Randy's suggestion on the Yummy project for the same reasons you suggest.

Effie is due for a top end refresh after I get the painting sorted, but I think it will be pretty tame.

I am however, thinking of turning one of the no names into a track bike. Perhaps a bit like Pete's, just without the skill  .

[fj1289]

Now im scratching my head trying to find out if i can just leave the cylinders on and pull the crankshaft with the pistons on and if it is possible to get the crankshaft back in with the piston on ?. Tok some pics i tested resize them

No can do...

The pistons will not come through the case.

Did you pull the nut off the stud in the front of the block?

The was on some of the intakes valves looks odd to me.

Randy - RPM

You could take the rods off the crank and push them out the top of the cylinder like on a typical v-8 engine.  But then you are still stuck with coaxing the cylinder block off - but the whole assembly will be much lighter. 

[Old Rider]

The barrels can be hard to remove. Some of the dowels can corrode like the studs and lock the barrels on. Try the WD40 trick in their locations.

I'm not sure you can remove the crank with the barrels on. Here's a pic from Marks & my bible the Haynes manual. I think the nuts will be hard to reach and probably harder to re tighten to correct torque.

Why are you worried about the valve springs? If the shims and compression are within tolerance the springs should be ok. If you're concerned I've included a pic from Haynes with the spring info.

Hi Mark Thanks for sharing the pics i see now on the pics it will mayby be impossible to get to the nuts i tough they was on the otherside .Anyway now the stuck  are almost off Big thanks to Randy telling me about the nut on the front hiding under the oiltube holder bracket that i did not see.After i got the invisible nut off and started to hammer it again it started to move just been down my cellar (yes i have now moved the beast from garage and down into my cellar.It was a good workout!) and hammering the cylinderblock for 2 hours and it is only 10 millimeters before it is off.
About the valvesprings i have same answer as Pat, but i will first measure them i think.

[Old Rider]

Why are you worried about the valve springs?

For the same reason we change our fork springs. Springs get sacked after 30 years, esp. oem Japanese steel springs. True, new valve springs will not help compression/ leak down numbers, but new (modern steel) springs will help keep valve float away in the 8k-10k rpm kookaloo zone.

Old Rider, I suggest calling or emailing RPM and inquire about new valve springs, viton valve seals, hardened valve guides. DIY or send your head and valves out and have it decarboned and lap the valves. (If the valve boundaries and seats are in good condition)

Learn yourself, or get professional help on measuring your cylinder bore for wear and roundness.
This will dictate whether you can get away with a simple a cylinder wall hone (DIY) or needing an over bore (shop) along with figuring out what size new rings you need.

You've come this far. It would be a shame to leave everything as is, do all this work and end up with a reassembled engine that has future problems.

Just my opinion.   Cheers.  Pat

Hi Pat! I will contact randy not by phone because I'm really bad speaking English=) but by mail .Thanks for you advice!

[Old Rider]

How did your exhaust valves look, looking into the exhaust port?

When I fitted my new exhaust last weekend I noticed a couple of the valves were a little "wet". This this on a relatively low mileage motor so I would expect you would replace the valve seals at least as a matter of course. And springs as well while it is apart.

Hi danmmag! i have not looked at exhaustports  yet but i will.

[Old Rider]

About the cranseals.. do they have to replaced ? are the new  seals without the flange and if do i have to use high temp silicone like yamabond or threebond on them when reasemble?
Is there a way to identify the shiftforks if they are before or after 1988 ? i bought a used transmision from ebay that supposed to come from a 1992 or 1994 fj1200 ABS.i suspect that transmission is not so good mayby worn.The previus owner of my bike had done some transmission work i dont know what.

I would say yes the seals should be replaced. They are 30 years old. Plus you have now disturbed them and they will most likely leak.

No sealant is required for the new seals, but just like on every corner joint, I put a little Permatex Ultra Black Silicone there to prevent leaks.
https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/ultra-series-gasket-makers/permatex-ultra-black-maximum-oil-resistance-rtv-silicone-gasket-maker-4/

You can just look at the shift forks on the website and compare what you have to what is the current Yamaha offering. They are significantly shorter forks compared to the current forks.

Randy - RPM

Hi randy! thank you for reminding me about the nut, it was good at hiding down there that little bastard! So much easier to get that cylinder block start moving after it was gone I will try to order the Permatex ultra black.Also new seals but aren't the seals with flange? I will also make an order when i get more into the engine and se what needed.

[Old Rider]

Now im scratching my head trying to find out if i can just leave the cylinders on and pull the crankshaft with the pistons on and if it is possible to get the crankshaft back in with the piston on ?. Tok some pics i tested resize them

No can do...

The pistons will not come through the case.

Did you pull the nut off the stud in the front of the block?

The was on some of the intakes valves looks odd to me.

Randy - RPM

You could take the rods off the crank and push them out the top of the cylinder like on a typical v-8 engine.  But then you are still stuck with coaxing the cylinder block off - but the whole assembly will be much lighter. 

Hi Fj1289 thanks for advice but now the cylinder are almost off

[racerrad8]

Now im scratching my head trying to find out if i can just leave the cylinders on and pull the crankshaft with the pistons on and if it is possible to get the crankshaft back in with the piston on ?. Tok some pics i tested resize them

No can do...

The pistons will not come through the case.

Randy - RPM

You could take the rods off the crank and push them out the top of the cylinder like on a typical v-8 engine.  But then you are still stuck with coaxing the cylinder block off - but the whole assembly will be much lighter. 

Chris,

Still no can do...

The rod nuts are on top of the rod so you have to have the cylinder off to get the rod nuts off.

Randy - RPM