'90 FJ1200

[sekter1]

Hi guys I'm gonna start my build thread here so it's not in the intro section.

So far:
+Oil filter change (w/ 2 o-rings), Rotella T6.
+Rebuilt seized clutch save cyliner (2 seals).
+Flushed clutch fluid, replaced reservoir screws and seal/diaphragm.
+Clutch master cylinder piston drive pin cleanup. It was white and dusty with corrosion.
+New OE air filter. There was a K&N in there, but I personally don't like K&N filters.
+New OE plugs.
Here's the old ones:


1)0.003"<----- wow.
2)0.030"
3)>0.035"
4)>0.035"

Found a few leaky bolts on the crankcase housing, so I've got that going for me.
Not turning over at the moment. Just clicking solenoid...

Here's my intro post: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=17990.0

[racerrad8]

Those plugs are black indicating the bike is running really rich.

If #1 filled the cylinder with fuel and hydro-locked, then it will bend the electrode like that.

Remove the timing cover on the right side and see if the engine turns over with a 14mm socket. If it doesn't turn over, that is why the starter is not cranking it.

If it turns, then you need to start with the battery.

Is the solenoid/starter relay clicking rapidly or just one, solid click when you push the button?

Randy - RPM

[sekter1]

Thanks for the reply Randy.

Haven't figured out what caused the bent electrode, but once I can go for a little test ride I'll pull the new plugs after a WOT shutdown and take a gander. Hopefully should tell me a little more in terms of the desired A/F ratio in the near future.

I got it running today and idling O.K, but performance is lacking and can't get a steady idle after throttle blips. Looks like it's time to clean the carbs

I did find the culprit for the non-starting issue.

Stuck commutator brush:


One of the carbon brushes (right one in picture) was stuck in it's "housing". The windings all tested O.K. So I filed down the side faces a bit, cleaned it up, and boom goes the dynamite.

While searching for non-existent (at least in relation to the starter...) electrical gremlins, I noticed the "Main" wire from the fuse block all the way to the ignition switch is extremely hot. I remember reading that Kyle (PO) had this problem before, but never did see resolution for it. I think he ended up replacing some of the ignition system components.

Wondering if this is normal...? Seems like it's tooooo hot to be normal.

Until next weekend...

-Nick

[Pat Conlon]

Your instinct is correct. No wire should be hot.
While you're in there, pull apart the (infamous) red plug (under right side cover) and take a look at the condition of the plug's blades and receptacles.  The plug body has been known to melt.
Don't assume it's fine by just looking at the outside, open it up and look inside.

[sekter1]

Thx for the advice on the plug Pat, I'll go through and start pulling the ol' sticky nasty tape apart.

As for this weekend. I got my new starter solenoid and fuel filter in, so I'll hopefully be doing some tuning. Still need to get a new chain and tires at least before I really get out there and test performance.

I did get a chance to ride around the neighborhood yesterday afternoon after a screwdriver jump-start.

Looks like the plugs survived a little test ride. Here's them pretty hot still.



Looks okay, no bent electrodes, gaps were ok. Can't really tell much about the carbs yet, it was only about 3 miles of riding just into 3rd gear with no high revs. Maybe #2 a little rich... Did find out the speedo is not working 

Anyone ever done this? I don't even know how it happened...


I'll post status updates with anything major or important. Ordered a center stand to make my life easier (original one was missing) and some CBR mirrors. We'll see if I can find a fairing and intake pod cheap enough to warrant me fixing anything cosmetic.

[red]

I did get a chance to ride around the neighborhood yesterday afternoon after a screwdriver jump-start.
Looks like the plugs survived a little test ride. Here's them pretty hot still.
https://gdurl.com/NmEG/download
Looks okay, no bent electrodes, gaps were ok. Can't really tell much about the carbs yet, it was only about 3 miles of riding just into 3rd gear with no high revs. Maybe #2 a little rich... Did find out the speedo is not working

sekter1,

Chances are, a new speedometer cable will fix the speedometer problem.  Easy to check, and cheap to replace.  Amazon can sell you a digital GPS speedometer for ~US$28.00 with free shipping.  You may decide to ignore the factory unit for a good while, and you won't be walking while you get the old one fixed. 

On that second picture of plugs, I'd say #1 is good, and all others are too lean.  Can't really say, though, after such a short ride.  Still, hard to believe that both sets of plugs came from the same engine.  Are the exhaust gasses clean, or smoky?

Pat is right: no wire should be running hot.  If the wire gauge there is sufficient, you will need to track down the large current drain and make some changes.  We do have tricks to make that process go easy on you, if needed.

[sekter1]

Hey Red, how do you like your sport demons? I had some on a Kawi 250 a while back and loved them, but not sure how that translates to the FJ's.

I'm interested to learn more about what you meant when you said you have tricks to make the process of tracking down the voltage drain easier? I am pretty proficient with my multi-meter, but ANY help is much appreciated.

As far as my findings yesterday, well:

When I apply 12v directly to the L/W (blue w/ white) relay activation wire on the starter solenoid, the motor cranks. So the solenoid and starter both work fine.

Funny thing is, when I push the "start" button, the red lights come on, light dims, but nothing happens. The switch worked two weeks ago just fine. 

I have 9volts at the relay activation wire (L/W) with the handlebar switch in the "run" position, and when i press the start button that voltage drops to 0.3V!! WTF? That just doesn't seem normal. I'm gonna have to do some serious investigating. Luckily I just got the wiring diagram printed out on a 13"x19" sheet of nice thick card stock. So I'll be tracing back and forth for the next 5 years...

I pulled the switch apart, and the "Start" button has 4 wires, one being the L/W to the solenoid. 3 out of 4 solder points at the start switch read 9 volts. This is all with a 12.8volt battery, that produced 290 CCA on a carbon pile load tester. Something really seems screwy here. I'll probably just end up power washing the whole damn thing with CRC Contact Cleaner... I'll keep reporting what I find as I stare deeply into the abyss of sticky black vinyl and electrons.

[red]

Hey Red, how do you like your sport demons? I had some on a Kawi 250 a while back and loved them, but not sure how that translates to the FJ's.
I'm interested to learn more about what you meant when you said you have tricks to make the process of tracking down the voltage drain easier? I am pretty proficient with my multi-meter, but ANY help is much appreciated.
As far as my findings yesterday, well:
When I apply 12v directly to the L/W (blue w/ white) relay activation wire on the starter solenoid, the motor cranks. So the solenoid and starter both work fine.
Funny thing is, when I push the "start" button, the red lights come on, light dims, but nothing happens. The switch worked two weeks ago just fine.  
I have 9volts at the relay activation wire (L/W) with the handlebar switch in the "run" position, and when i press the start button that voltage drops to 0.3V!! WTF? That just doesn't seem normal. I'm gonna have to do some serious investigating. Luckily I just got the wiring diagram printed out on a 13"x19" sheet of nice thick card stock. So I'll be tracing back and forth for the next 5 years...
I pulled the switch apart, and the "Start" button has 4 wires, one being the L/W to the solenoid. 3 out of 4 solder points at the start switch read 9 volts. This is all with a 12.8volt battery, that produced 290 CCA on a carbon pile load tester. Something really seems screwy here. I'll probably just end up power washing the whole damn thing with CRC Contact Cleaner... I'll keep reporting what I find as I stare deeply into the abyss of sticky black vinyl and electrons.

Secter1,

The old (very old!) tires on the bike when I got it were Metzlers, and I locked up the rear wheel once too often on them.  Not sure if they even make them now, in 16" sizes.  I have always liked Pirelli, and man, these Sport Demons were like getting a whole new bike under me!  I know, sure, new tires always feel great, but this was far beyond that.  This was real confidence in turns, in braking, and they did not "track" in the highway grooves.  Other than the Avon radials, I don't think you really have much choice for 16" tire choices, but I'd need some convincing that anything else would be much better.

For easier troubleshooting, you can eliminate a lot of guesswork by pulling and replacing one fuse at a time, to see if any of them affect the problem when that one fuse should not. (<-there it is!  So easy to miss! Grab it!)    

Use the best of dedicated contact cleaners (accept NO substitutes).  You can get (pricey) siver-bearing contact grease, to insure good contact through connectors.  Apply it very sparingly with a straight-pin (no joke), and ONLY to the inside of the female pins in any connector pair.  Dielectric grease is an insulator, and I do not recommend using it in any connector.  It may keep out moisture, but it can also cause crazy electrical problems.  If water is a problem there (and it should not be), you can seal connectors with marine-grade heat-shrink tubing, which has sealant inside.  For wire bundles, put a few drops of RTV sealant into the middle of the wire bundle, where the heat-shrink tubing will be, on each side of the connector.  Then heat-shrink the tubing, before the RTV cures.

For the problem you describe, I see two possibilities:  

#1. Corrosion has made a good connector pin(s) into a resistive connection (not a dead short), which blocks a lot of voltage.  Make sure your battery terminal lugs are clean and bright, and the battery terminals, too.  New battery bolts may be needed, if yours are corroded.  Start at the battery, and measure the Voltage.  Use a straight pin alongside the wire, to connect your Voltmeter to the pin at the end of the wire that goes toward the problem, and measure the Voltage in the connector.  Go to the other side of the connector, and do the same, for the same color wire.  There should be no difference in Voltage, on each side of a connector.  If there is any difference, that pin is at least one part of the problem.  You can test and tighten the grip of any female pin using sharp needle-nose pliers.  Test the grip of each female pin, using a new male pin.  Do not crush the female pins; easy does it.  Track through the wiring diagram, from the battery to the end use of that wire.  Clean up any corroded wire terminal lugs using a fine "wire toothbrush." Imagine a toothbrush with a wooden handle, and fine wire bristles.  You can get them at the better auto parts stores, usually.

#2. Corrosion has made a resistive connection between one pin and an unrelated pin inside a connector.  Using a very strong light, you can spot this problem visually, most times, but unless a white plastic connector is really white inside, just suspect trouble there.  Rust will conduct just enough electricity to cause crazy problems in there.  Clean inside the plastic connector body with contact cleaner and a stiff acid brush (hardware store item).  This is the kind of problem that pulling and replacing each fuse may find for you.

For your specific problem, disconnect the battery.  Check (with the Ohmmeter function of your multimeter) that power goes through the start button and nearby switches, and the kill switch.  Check your kickstand switch, and the clutch switch, too.  For each and every switch, Closed means very low resistance (a few Ohms at most) and Open means infinite resistance (maybe "OverLoad" or OL on the highest range of a digital Ohmmeter).  Use your strong light and check inside each switch housing for corrosion.  Clean the insides of switches as needed.  Clean or replace any switch that gives a bogus Ohmmeter reading on Open, or Closed.

Happy hunting!
.

[ribbert]

1)0.003"<----- wow.

Noel

[sekter1]

Well, this weekend was a bust, of course. Between trying to replace CV axle boots with the wrong tools, and feeling sick. I just couldn't manage to get much done. I did find that the red plug going on the wires going to the generator (alternator? Where's the diodes?) was totally blasted. Both terminals were melted and corroded. So I clipped it out and made a clean connector with blade style plugs and some heat shrink (no solder unfortunately)...

All other plugs, switches, connectors tested ok, except for the sidestand switch. But bypassing it did nothing either.

Other than that, I think this bike may have a mash up of stock and modified wiring. Can't get an exact matching wiring diagram, and I've been finding bare crimps and butt connectors here and there.

Also, the brown wire from the main switch has been cut on both sides of the plug near the rubber rings where the tank mounts.  I still can't figure out why the voltage at the starter solenoid is around 10V with the kill switch set to on position, and pressing the start button brings it to down to 0.3V. seems like I should be able to find some wires crossed but everything really only wires up one way...

Anyway, I have no freaking clue about this right now...

[red]

I still can't figure out why the voltage at the starter solenoid is around 10V with the kill switch set to on position, and pressing the start button brings it to down to 0.3V. seems like I should be able to find some wires crossed but everything really only wires up one way...  Anyway, I have no freaking clue about this right now...

Sekter1,

Disconnect the starter from the wiring. and try the button again (reading Voltage as before).

Disconnect the solenoid from the wiring. and try the button again (reading Voltage as before).

Keep us posted.

[sekter1]

Well, I've been trying to find time to work on the bike, but not really finding much.

I did figure out that the solenoid was just wired backwards, so that was the culprit for the no-start...

But now I've got a battery draw when it's parked. Went down to 1.2V overnight. Charged the battery and let is sit on my garage shelf, out of the bike, and it holds charge okay. So now I just gotta find out where the voltage drain is coming from.

I' still haven;t figured out the hot wire problem, which generates heat if the bike keys are turned in the ignition. Seems to be mostly at the 30A terminal on fuse block and main red/blue/brown plug going into the cylinder lock switch.

Wish me luck!

-Nick.

[red]

I did figure out that the solenoid was just wired backwards, so that was the culprit for the no-start...
But now I've got a battery draw when it's parked. Went down to 1.2V overnight. Charged the battery and let is sit on my garage shelf, out of the bike, and it holds charge okay. So now I just gotta find out where the voltage drain is coming from.
I' still haven;t figured out the hot wire problem, which generates heat if the bike keys are turned in the ignition. Seems to be mostly at the 30A terminal on fuse block and main red/blue/brown plug going into the cylinder lock switch.
Wish me luck!
-Nick.

Nick,

Hey, one disaster at a time . . .      You can use an Ammeter (or a multimeter on Ampere function) or a small 12 V light bulb to find your "battery draw."  With the battery installed, disconnect the (+) Plus lead from the battery, and connect your meter (or bulb) between the (+) Plus lead, and the battery terminal.  You can make these connections with clip-leads, or just invent something. 

Leave the Ignition key turned OFF.  The light bulb will show your power drain by glowing; the multimeter will show an Amps (or milli-Amps) flow on the meter display.  Perform the actual test by pulling out one fuse from the fuse-block.  If nothing changes, replace that fuse and pull out the next fuse.  If nothing changes, replace that fuse and continue right down the line of fuses.  If the light bulb turns off, or if the multimeter reading drops to a very low reading, the fuse that caused that change is the one that runs the circuit that causes your battery (power) drain.  This test eliminates 90% of the possible problems. Once you know which fuse circuit is bad, you can start tracing out the wiring from that fuse to everything powered by that fuse..  Keep us posted.

[Pat Conlon]

......Funny thing is, when I push the "start" button, the red lights come on, light dims, but nothing happens. The switch worked two weeks ago just fine.  

Sorry Nick, I just noticed this ^^^ (I've been out of town)

What you described above is normal behavior when you
1) turn the key on,
2) set the red run/stop handle bar switch to "stop"
3) push the starter button.

The Yamaha Owners Handbook for our FJ's describes this procedure for checking the health the low fuel light bulb and oil level light bulb in the gauge cluster. (Makes sure the bulbs are not burned out)
Both red lights should glow (along with the headlight dim) when this is done.

Check to see if your run/stop switch is in the "run" position.

Cheers. Pat

[sekter1]

Hey Red, thanks for the help on methodology as far as narrowing down the circuit that is drawing power. It will help instead of me just poking around with my multimeter. I did find that the heated grips (aftermarket install) were showing 0.15V per side with ignition off. Possibly had been hardwired in somewhere.

Pat, it's good to know that I've got something "normal" going on! 

Anyways, I've got a much bigger problem to tackle.

Yesterday, I rode around my neighborhood to see if the charging system would top-up my battery, and it did. Bike ran okay, pretty good throttle response, and no skipping or falling flat throughout most of the powerband. BUT. While I was riding back to the house, the rear tire locked up momentarily and I started to slalom side-to side. Luckily I wasn't going very fast or around a bend and was able to save it from a crash. Thank goodness for my days on dirtbikes...

What I can remember, is that I was cruising in 2nd gear, then shifted up to third. Still cruising normally, disengaged the clutch, revved it slightly, and then released the clutch lever. I think the trans was in second gear when i released the clutch, causing the temporary wheel lock and skid. Could excessive vibration cause a downshift? I really have no idea of how this happened, and I'm not sure I want to try and reproduce the result. EVER. It was a bit scary and now I'm tempted to drop it off at a reputable shop and start giving them all my paychecks, because this incident just shattered any confidence I had in this bike.

Any guesses as to what happened are very welcome at this point.

-Nick