Valve Adjustment

[andyb]

Please explain.  You lost me.

Measure the various clearances.  Write them down.

Pull a cam, noting the reference marks for timing.

Remove shims.  Read their numbers (and mic them up, to be sure).  Work out proper shims required. 

Procure shims.  Insert shims in buckets in proper locations.  Replace cam, again ensuring proper timing.

Repeat on other cam.


It's a little rougher but saves $70.  Depends on how worried you are about things.

[racerrad8]

Okay,
       Here is the deal on the valve adjusting tool (VAT). Kent-Moore who made the originals has stopped making them. Another manufacture is now making them and the price on the wholesale side more than doubled. I can sell any FJowner member a VAT for $60.11. That is barely covering the cost of the tool and the shipping & "handling" the supplier charges me to get the tool here. I currently have them with a list price of $70.00 just like everyone else.

I can probably work out some sort of shim exchange program for our members as well. I do it for my racers now, but I am the one adjusting the valves, so there is no freight involved.

There has been prior conversation about having a group kit to send all over for member use. That is a great idea, but it only takes one time that the cam get turned the wrong way, the tool gets bent and will not function anymore. That is the reason I have never chimed in on the subject, because it will either end up with a damaged tool or a bunch of shims that no one can use.

Randy - RPM

[Scooterbob]

Okay,
       Here is the deal on the valve adjusting tool (VAT). Kent-Moore who made the originals has stopped making them. Another manufacture is now making them and the price on the wholesale side more than doubled. I can sell any FJowner member a VAT for $60.11. That is barely covering the cost of the tool and the shipping & "handling" the supplier charges me to get the tool here. I currently have them with a list price of $70.00 just like everyone else.

I can probably work out some sort of shim exchange program for our members as well. I do it for my racers now, but I am the one adjusting the valves, so there is no freight involved.

There has been prior conversation about having a group kit to send all over for member use. That is a great idea, but it only takes one time that the cam get turned the wrong way, the tool gets bent and will not function anymore. That is the reason I have never chimed in on the subject, because it will either end up with a damaged tool or a bunch of shims that no one can use.

Randy - RPM

Ok - Of all the versions, I think I will go about it this way:
IF TRoy will lend me the tool that he has offered (that I will be very gentle with), then I will go that route. 
IF I need different shims, then I will contact you (Randy) and perform the appropriate begging process for buy, swap, or appropriating.
Sound reasonable?  If that doesn't work out, then I will buy the tool somehow and continue from there.

Cheers all! 

[Scooterbob]

Local shop I just called wants $360 to check and adjust the valves, so that version is most definitely out of the question.  
Good news is that they have boxes and boxes of the shims and they are $5.95 per shim.  I can live with that.  
Lastly, even though I was a skeptic about pulling the cams off (sorry andyb), two of the shops I called say that is the preferred way to do it, to prevent messing up the cups that the shims float/rotate in.  I'm kind of torn how to do it now........

[pdxfj]

What is there to mess up?  The shim over bucket design is very simple to work on and unless you use a hammer and chisel you're not going to mess anything up.  That's what the bucket tool is for.  It holds the bucket down while you rotate the cam lobe out of the way.  Then use a small flat tip screw driver to pop the shim out.  Thousands of people have done it this way for 20+ years.

The shops might be thinking of a shim under bucket setup.  For this you have to take the cams out.  The Hayabusa is a shim under bucket design, and the shims are about the size of a pencil eraser.  Imagine how much of a PITA it is to do valve adjustments on that?

Even though the tool is $70, it's a one time purchase.  It will save you money down the road.  I paid over $100 for my Morgan Carbtune and it's paid for it self time and time again.  Plus if someone in your area with a FJ needs to check the valves.. hey you've got the tool to do it. 

Buy the tool and do the work yourself.  You'll be proud of a job well done in the end.   

[racerrad8]

Lastly, even though I was a skeptic about pulling the cams off (sorry andyb), two of the shops I called say that is the preferred way to do it, to prevent messing up the cups that the shims float/rotate in.  I'm kind of torn how to do it now........

I call booshit on that one. The easiest and fastest way to adjust the valves is with the VAT. That is probably why they want $360.00 to adjust them instead of an hour max labor. I can check and adjust the valves on the engine in less than 20 minutes including once the valve cover is off...And I can honestly say that I have never in 16 years and probably close to 1000 adjustments, damaged a bucket. (Hell, I have done 7 this week alone)

Measure the clearance. Document your measurements. Install the tools on those that need adjustment. Use the chart to determine what shim to install once you have removed the old one. Install the replacement shim and move on the the next one. Can get much easier than that.

Randy - RPM

[mz_rider]

Local shop I just called wants $360 to check and adjust the valves, so that version is most definitely out of the question.  
Good news is that they have boxes and boxes of the shims and they are $5.95 per shim.  I can live with that.  
Lastly, even though I was a skeptic about pulling the cams off (sorry andyb), two of the shops I called say that is the preferred way to do it, to prevent messing up the cups that the shims float/rotate in.  I'm kind of torn how to do it now........

Bob,

I would advise against removing the cams to adjust the valves. Too much hassle and an unnecessary risk. The tool is expensive for what it is but I'd invest in one if you intent to keep your FJ for a while. If you haven't checked the valves do this first. Maybe adjustment isn't necessary. I generally have to swap a shim only every 2nd or 3rd time. Note that the gaps will tend to become tight rather than loose. I wouldn't worry about the "cups" (buckets) there is little you could do to damage them. FYI here's my home made in operation.



Stuart

[SlowOldGuy]

One other thing to consider for the "remove the cams" technique.

You will need to reset the cam chain tensioner.  That will require removing the cards to get to it.  Plus a new gasket for the tensioner.  It's worth at least $70 to not have to pull the carbs for a valve check/adjust.

You will also have to go through the hassle of re-timing the cams CORRECTLY.  It may take more than once to get it right.  I have degreed cams.  I ONLY remove them IF the head is coming off.  The tool is twice the price in the long run.  However, I'm glad I bought mine 25 year ago.  :-)

DavidR.

[FJSpringy]

did mine a few weeks ago, no cam removal, tho the guy I use for shim swaps was a bit ott at $9 AUD per shim but as I only needed 6 it was not toooo bad.

I am thinking of starting a shim collection something I should have done years ago.

[Scooterbob]

Enough said. I will buy, or barrow the tool and attempt it myself. Thanks for all the great feedback. It is/was a great help!

[LA Mike]

Don't remove the cams to much work, the tool at $60 bucks from Randy is worth it. I would measure each clearance and pull each shim out to find out what you have on each bucket. That way you can see if you can see if you can move some around and save on the number you have to purchase.

I just add a Valve work sheet to the file section use it as you do each valve At the end keep track of the final shim # installed so the next valve job will be easy.
http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1800.msg14266#msg14266

LA Mike

[racerman_27410]

What is there to mess up?  The shim over bucket design is very simple to work on and unless you use a hammer and chisel you're not going to mess anything up.  That's what the bucket tool is for.  It holds the bucket down while you rotate the cam lobe out of the way.  Then use a small flat tip screw driver to pop the shim out.  Thousands of people have done it this way for 20+ years.

The shops might be thinking of a shim under bucket setup.  For this you have to take the cams out.  The Hayabusa is a shim under bucket design, and the shims are about the size of a pencil eraser.  Imagine how much of a PITA it is to do valve adjustments on that?

Even though the tool is $70, it's a one time purchase.  It will save you money down the road.  I paid over $100 for my Morgan Carbtune and it's paid for it self time and time again.  Plus if someone in your area with a FJ needs to check the valves.. hey you've got the tool to do it. 

Buy the tool and do the work yourself.  You'll be proud of a job well done in the end.   

WEll said!


there is no better confidence than knowing your FJ is running as well as it possibly can by your own hand.


KOokaloo!

[SlowOldGuy]

One other very useful tip that I think was originally posted by Danny (and now that I've typed his first name, his last name has completely jumped from my mind, V-Strom 650, sorry Danny I'm so embarrassed).

If you're swapping shims around and don't have an extra one to help you move a few, you can use a quarter to occupy the spot until you're through.

DavidR.

[TRoy]

originally posted by Danny (and now that I've typed his first name, his last name has completely jumped from my mind, V-Strom 650, sorry Danny I'm so embarrassed).

ah yes, Mr. Daniel D Lewis, AKA FUCK YOU DANNY 

Boone Is Soon!

[FJ Flyer]

I think there is a sheet posted in the files section that has all the valves so you can write down the clearances and figure out what shims you need.

Also, if its not here, the Yahoo FJ Owners Group has the link to the CBX web-site where you can order shims online if you can't source any locally.  The Honda shim is the same.

Can't believe the shim tool doubled in price.