full disengagement

[iridewheelies]

so i just put randys clutch friction plates in, and a double spring mod. still not getting full disengagement. at all. the pressure plate moves, but not enough. i think there is still air in the clutch system. the slave isnt leaking, going to pull it off to make sure. going to re bleed the system. the pull at the lever definitely isnt tight enough since there are 2 clutch springs. i might ditch the adjustable lever on the vfr800 interceptor m/c for a non adjustable one to ensure i am getting full clutch pull and full fluid being moved thru m/c. the bike moves with clutch pulled in 1st, but not like it does in neutral. im not sure what i did incorrectly. the clutch pulls easy, so i bet there is air in system. going to bleed more and see if i can get the bike to move easier in neutral. need to rebuild rear brake and m/c because it is not bleeding, nor building pressure. the state of rear caliper is bad, pretty sure it is frozen in the open position. here is a picture of the clutch lever, it is worn. my dad has a vacuum bleeder so i may try that. there arent shims that go between clutch spring and hub correct? i doubt there is. and there is no way that the clutch plates are stuck together since there is new plates. i am at a standstill. ive put so much money and time into the bike, i just need to work out the kinks. thanks for the help guys.   ps. i even rode the bike around the block to see if it would unstick the plates, if they are stuck. no change. i need to get the rear brake working so i can slam the rear brake to see if that will free them up.

[FJmonkey]

Cold oil can make the clutch feel like it is dragging. Are you having this issue with the engine warm?

[iridewheelies]

appreciate the quick reply. i warmed the bike up prior to riding around the block. the clutch isnt working at all with the bike on, but when its off i can push the bike with the clutch held in first gear

[iridewheelies]

Its really upsetting me as of now. Im 18 and ive spend so much time and money on this thing... the clutch doesnt work... but the pressure plate is moving. I can only think that the clutch plates are stick together because of the oil film when installed.. i still need to tune the bike.. it runs just not the best. I bet the valves need adjusted soon too..maybe.. ive tried so many things and i cant get the clutch to work. Theres like no air in the clutch system. Im not sure what to do besides get the rear brake to work and try unsticking the plates. Im also having fuel issues im going to end up spending the money to get a non vaccum petcock. Mine is a pos. It just never ends with these bikes...

[iridewheelies]

Would the pressure plate still move if the ball bearing was gone?

[red]

.
You may need to bleed the clutch assembly again.  

Sometimes it helps to tie the clutch lever pulled solidly against the handgrip with a bungee cord or zip tie, and leave it that way overnight.  Work the clutch lever slowly out and in, the next morning, and see if that helps.

The rod from the clutch master cylinder into the clutch lever can wear a hole into the lever, so the hole gets too deep to work the clutch.  There may be a bushing in the lever that pushes the clutch rod, which can be worn out in the same way.  You can use a dot of RTV to stick a tiny washer (or two) into the bottom of that hole (or bushing) to see if that helps.  If so, replace the clutch lever (or bushing) ASAP.  

You can get banjo bolts for the hydraulic hoses that have a bleeder screw built into the bolt head.  Makes it much easier to bleed the system, with a bleeder at the top of the hose, where it connects to the clutch master cylinder.  They make one and two-hose banjo bleeders.  They cost from US$8 to US$18 usually, but the wrong shop may want US$45+ for one.  A good hydraulic hose shop may have what you need, or buy them on the Internet.

[Pat Conlon]

Let's back up a minute..

Randy sells two different clutch packs:
1) The standard Yamaha FJ clutch pack uses six (6) wide discs along with two (2) of the narrow discs at the front & rear of the pack.

2) The RPM upgraded clutch pack:  This clutch pack uses 7 OEM wide clutch discs, 1 OEM narrow clutch disc at the front of the pack.. This kit will require the removal of the dampening cushioning spring & back-up plate from the rear of the clutch pack.
http://rpmracingca.com/proddetail.asp?prod=M%2FC%3ARPMClutch

If you got #2 above, the RPM upgraded clutch pack, and you did not remove the parts in red below, you will have a clutch that will not disengage.



As discussed here: http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=1808.0

If you did that, good, then as others have said, you need to bleed your hydraulics.

[iridewheelies]

i am aware of those dampening bushings and i did remove them all. i may end up taking it back apart to be sure though. the slave and m/c do not have air in them. no bubbles come up when bleeding. i know this clutch can work.. 11,705 original miles... inside of motor looks very clean. the bike sat for 20-30 years. my guess is that the ball bearing is either somewhere around my garage or in the oil pan...if everything is installed correctly. i forgot to check for the ball bearing while putting the kit in, it is behind the top hat looking part that pushes the pressure plate correct? also, going back to this question, will the pressure plate move while pulling clutch if the ball bearing is missing?? the clutch disengages just enough to push the bike in gear, but it doesn't do much of anything while the bike is running. another question, the bike is probably due for a valve adjustment. probably on stock shims. will a hotcams valve shim kit work? i already have one, but i dont know if they are the same size shims.

[iridewheelies]

i also made sure my slave wasn't leaking. i will continue bleeding the hydraulics, and it isn't a big deal to take the clutch cover off without draining the oil, but i would like to know if a missing ball bearing could cause this issue. I shot the push rod out twice, so it is very possible that the ball bearing is gone, i just want to know if the push rod will even move the pressure plate without the ball bearing.

[FJmonkey]

The clutch will not disengage at all, if the ball is missing.

[racerrad8]

A couple of things I have found over the years.

Put the bike on the center stand, you need to leave the handlebars turned all the way to the right overnight.

If the bars are left straight, the line fitting and banjo bolt can be a place holding an air bubble. The fluid will run right under the bubble.

I seem to recall another member who struggled with the vfr master.

And finally, there will be some drag on the clutch pack which will cause the rear wheel to turn. If you get the wheel on the ground, or the rear brake operational does the clutch disengage enough to kill me engine?

Randy - RPM

[ZOA NOM]

I seem to recall another member who struggled with the vfr master.

Randy - RPM

That would be me... I gave up on it and reinstalled my OEM master. I have the left forearm to prove it.

[iridewheelies]

why didnt you have any luck with vfr800 m/c? that is discouraging.. my stock master is missing sight glass. my brake master has a penny and jb weld to replace the sight window:)

thanks guys for the help
good to know the ball bearing is for sure there.
left it with the lever zip tied and the bars all the way to the right.
will end up bleeding tomorrow and possibly cracking the banjo to get the air out of it.
i will keep you guys posted hopefully i can get the slave to push more.
i just ordered a kit for the rear caliper and pads and i already have the kit for the rear m/c.
will get back to you in a few days.

i am hoping this m/c will bleed. its a 14mm, i should have gone with the fjr m/c, i bought the m/c early onto my resto. if anything i can sell on ebay to recoup some money. it sucks, i even rebuilt it.

[aviationfred]

After determining all of the mechanical components are operating as they should and the system still refuses to build pressure 

When all else fails.......

Order a Motion Pro Mighty Vac, or a Cycle Gear, Stockton Vacuum Brake Bleeder kit. Within minutes you will have pressure and a functioning clutch or brake system. 

Ask me how I know.....



Fred

[ribbert]

......does the clutch disengage enough to kill me engine?
Randy - RPM

The clutch will not disengage at all, if the ball is missing.

Ok guys, you can't both be right.