I have a Dream 2

[oldktmdude]

   There will come a day when the government will tax you on the currently "free" energy.
I'm surprised they haven't come up with something yet.

[giantkiller]

I know they do in other countries already.

Power companies don't like it. And are fighting very hard against net metering. Most of the ones that have exceeded. Have had to grandfather in existing systems.
When and if I loose net metering. I will go off grid. It's funny first they were begging people to do solar. Because they could not keep up with the demand. But then they all figured out "hey instead of paying this guy 10c and turning around and selling the electricity he is making to his neighbor for 27c. And telling the greenies that if they pay 37c . They can get power that is only produced via renewable. Through the same lines as there neighbor who is getting fossil electricity. Well If we make up a bunch of lies that the energy. We get from the guy for 10c and instantly make 20c off selling it to his neighbor. Is costing us money. Making 20c when we actually don't have to do anything. Then we can charge everyone more because these people making electricity for us. Are evil. Sorry. Rant over.

[giantkiller]

The geothermal actually cost me much less than conventional heating and cooling. And that was before they reinstated the 30% rebate last year.

[Pat Conlon]

  There will come a day when the government will tax you on the currently "free" energy.
I'm surprised they haven't come up with something yet.

Yes Peter, they have already done this (in some areas) The utility as convinced the regulatory folks to put a surcharge on the electric bills for homes that have PV solar systems. Last I checked, the solar surcharge runs from $25 to $45 per month only on homes with PV systems. These are for folks who remain connected to the utility ( via grid tied PV systems)
The utility argument is: Folks who have PV grid tied systems have very little to zero net kWh useage, therefore we can't charge the homeowner based on their energy useage. The cost of the grid maintenance is then transferred to folks who don't have solar, even though the solar folks Benefit from electricity they draw off the grid (at night)
This is not fair (they claim) because the folks who have PV systems don't pay their fair share to keep the electrical grid maintained, thus the surcharge.

So, if you remained connected to the grid, you get the surcharge (again, in some areas) and the only way out of this surcharge is to completely cut the cord with the utility and go off grid. This means adding batteries to your PV system, which means $$$. Although prices on battery systems are coming down.

Screw those utilities, they see the writing on the wall and it scares them, as it should.

[giantkiller]

I don't have the surcharge yet. I do have a $15 charge for being hooked up to the grid. But I paid that before I had solar. Just like everyone else. But I'm sure I will get the surcharge. But right now I'm over producing enough. And have more than enough room to add to the system. Too make up the difference. Until I loose net metering.

But luckily our government hasn't started taxing us. Like other countries do.

Yes battery prices are coming down. And there are a lot of battery technologies. That if they don't get suppressed. Will make them cheaper and more durable. Every day is remarkable. Right now.

[Sparky84]

   There will come a day when the government will tax you on the currently "free" energy.
I'm surprised they haven't come up with something yet.

They already do charge even on a vacant block with nothing connected.
All properties with access to water main or wastewater (sewer) main pay service charges, and coming to a place near you will be the service charge even if not connected to electricity supply but it's out the front waiting for you.
The less we use, the more the charges go up so their CEO's can still get pay rises!

[ribbert]

   There will come a day when the government will tax you on the currently "free" energy.
I'm surprised they haven't come up with something yet.

They already do charge even on a vacant block with nothing connected.
All properties with access to water main or wastewater (sewer) main pay service charges, and coming to a place near you will be the service charge even if not connected to electricity supply but it's out the front waiting for you.
The less we use, the more the charges go up so their CEO's can still get pay rises!

Here in Australia we charge farmers for the water they catch in the dams they dig with the money they've earned on the land they own - a tax on rainwater! (which, ironically, is probably tax deductable)

You know how they get away with that? They're the govt, they just make up a law that says they can.

Noel

[giantkiller]

It's illegal to catch rain water in a lot of cities in the US. And we have property tax. Like what you said. I was paying $998 a year. For my empty one acre lot. Before I built the house. Now without having the occupancy permit yet it's gone up to $1987.56. And I'm sure when I get the occupancy permit it will go up again.

Luckily they can't use the added value of the geothermal or the solar for the tax assessment.

[Motofun]

US electric utilities have an "obligation to serve".  That means they must run poles and lines everywhere.  Who do you expect will pay for that?  True, you may wish to go off the grid but that doesn't eliminate their obligation.  As long as power is seen as an essential service like water and sewer than there will be a method to collect for the service.  TV cable, on the other hand, is not essential.  Cut the cord and all charges stop.  See the difference?
Move way off the grid where no services are provided and avoid all complications.

[andyoutandabout]

'Obligation to serve' so you pay even if you don't use it. Who votes for this shit? Some of the laws in America are just plain wrong. Don't even get me started on healthcare.

[giantkiller]

Yes I still pay the $15 a month to help them maintain the grid. That they have to maintain. For all of my neighbors. That they use to make money off of the electricity that I make for them. I don't think I should use it free of charge. But I don't think people who foot the bill for the equipment (solar that they don't have to pay for or maintain). That allows them to make money off of their system. Should be penalized with a surcharge. I don't get paid dollar for dollar. I pay more for the electricity I use. Than they pay me for the excess electricity I make.. You have to oversize the solar system by quite a bit. To over produce enough to break even. I guarantee I pay more for grid maintenance than any of my neighbors.
But the only legal monopolies allowed in the US. Power companies. That haven't had to invest in updating our antiquated grid system. Because they are massive profit making monopolies.

Don't get me wrong I don't think I should get to use the grid for free. But don't believe any of the bullshit. About it costing others for the miniscule amount of solar being generated by the few residential solar systems. Just another way for them to make a bigger profit.

And no I'm not a liberal greenie. I'm just busting my ass trying to come up with a way. I might be able to almost retire someday.  And not have to figure out how to come up with the extra money to pay for the new profit margin of the power company.

[Motofun]

Think of the grid as a market place where you can sell what you have produced as well as buy what you want, when you want it, as you want it, or not.  The "market place" doesn't exist for free.  You don't have the problem of finding buyers for your product like the Utility does nor are you concerned with the shelf life (there is none) of your product.  You don't have to worry about voltage, frequency variations on the grid (er... I mean market place) or fluctuations in demand.  These things must be controlled in order for the grid to work and it's one reason why your product is of less value than your consumption.

[giantkiller]

Think of the grid as a market place where you can sell what you have produced as well as buy what you want, when you want it, as you want it, or not.  The "market place" doesn't exist for free.  You don't have the problem of finding buyers for your product like the Utility does nor are you concerned with the shelf life (there is none) of your product.  You don't have to worry about voltage, frequency variations on the grid (er... I mean market place) or fluctuations in demand.  These things must be controlled in order for the grid to work and it's one reason why your product is of less value than your consumption.

Yeah. Short answer because I think you must have missed it. I don't think I should use it for free. But I don't think I should be penalized (added surcharge for solar)  When they I already pay more than others. Because they make money off the electricity I produce. And I don't cost them any more than if I didn't.

I'm not posting for the debate on whether the power company needs to make more money. Just trying to share what years of obsessive study. And planning. And now physical constant hard work. A lowly forklift driver. Can do to make the ultimate manshed. Dream house/shop... Well ultimate for me on a forklift drivers massive overtime income (never worked less than 2800 hours a year)

[Tuned forks]

Like Pat wrote, a buddy went solar but is still grid tied.  He pays over $500/year to Pigs Greed and Extortion (our utility company PG&E for those out of area) for the privilege of being grid tied.  PG&E used to send a check to customers that generated more power than they used.  Now they just issue a credit to your bill.  I recall there is a time limit to the credit as well.  Essentially they are taking your unused electricity and not paying you for it.  Don't even get us NorCal residents started on PG&E starting fires and the gas explosion in San Bruno.

For the doomsayers about gov't charging for free energy and utility companies seeing the handwriting on the wall, this is what I predict.  In the future, utility companies will get their lackeys, (aka politicians) to pass laws that will prevent anyone from disconnecting from the grid.  Of course they will say it's for your protection.  Here in the People's Socialist Republic of Kalifornia they already passed a law that will regulate how much water we can use from our water companies.  It's not far away from them attaching water meters to wells.  Once again, initially they will say it's only to monitor how much water you are removing from the aquifers.  With regard to the comment about rain water, California passed a law in the 1800's that gives the state complete ownership and authority over any water that falls upon the ground, ie rain.

Ok, that's my rant.  I'll get off my soapbox now.

Joe

[giantkiller]

 Back to sharing on my journey. I had studied and learned everything I could find about geothermal heating, solar and everything that has to do with building a house/shop. Been going to every build show I could find for a couple of years spent every second I could find searching the internet, watching all the shows on TV, for every little bit of information I could find. Before I started. Stilll obsessively double quadruple checking everything...

So I know as much about every detail as a dumbass like me could know.

I got three estimates for building my house. With conventional heating and cooling. I discussed with all of them that I was going with geothermal and solar. And I would take care of all of that. All of them said they would love to live in it after looking at my plans  I ended up going with the builder who was in the middle. Because he didn't care how much I wanted to do myself. But mostly because he was kinda excited about building it. He said  most people will do solar. Or super insulation. Or in floor heat. Had never built one that had geothermal heating. But you are doing all of those.