1985 FJ600 Ressurection

[PaulG]

Why Oh Why Oh Why?     You might say that when you see the pics.  My 92ABS is getting long in the tooth and I am anticipating some downtime within the next few years - though she's solid as a brick shit-house at the moment.  So I will eventually need alternative transport.  I could have bought another running 1100/1200 but the price was right and I've never sunk my teeth into a full-bore restoration.  I want to see if any of my accrued knowledge of 30ish yrs of motorcycling will be of any use.  I am anticipating a very long project timeline 1-2yrs if things go well.  Plus with whatever skills I will improve upon or learn anew, I can apply to my 1200 later on.  Call it FJ Prep 101.

So the story so far... I saw the ad on Craigslist a couple of weeks ago so I decided to inquire via email.  After repeated non committal answers from the seller (the ad was pulled of the site) I made one more contact.  I was beginning to think it was a scam.  But according to him he was just really busy.  I told him if he has decided not to sell (it had been up there for a month) he has my number and email.  After a week of back and forth he was suddenly available.

It has been sitting (allegedly) in the underground parking lot of his building for 15+yrs.  He wanted to get it back together for his kids but they weren't interested, blah-blah-blah.  I looked at it last night and hummed and hawsd.  It's about 97% original, just in really rough shape from non-use and neglect.  His asking price was a steep $400 (CAN).  He said he would let it go for $300.  After sleeping on it I decided to go for it (with a little knowledge from another member who said it would be a good project if I was willing).  He also said he had the carbs "recently" rebuilt by Rosey Toes Motorcycles Inc.  They're one of the few Olde Tymie Shoppes left in the Toronto area.  Judging by one of the bikes you see in their title pic they must be ok...    I will still give them a going over to double check everything.  If they were then that covers the purchase price for me.

This morning it was off to Home Depot to rent a van, and meet up with him.  First step was to remove the front calipers so the wheel would move and we towed it up from the underground parking with his car (F&R both flat).  I noticed the switch gear looks similar to the early model FJ1100's.

Then I realized I left my tie-downs in my car at the Home Depot.    We moved it up inside and there was some seat belts behind the drivers seat that we hooked it up to.  All I had to do was make it the 2km to the nearest Canadian Tire store to buy some MORE tie-downs.  I made it less than 100m from his building and on a left turn at the lights ---- KAAAA-RUUUNNNCH! ----- as the 600 decides to flop over on it's right side.     A quick survey reveals no damage, and after a few expletives I haul it back up right.  Re-attach the seatbelt and wedge my folding bike ramp into the subframe on the right side.  Now I make it without incident to buy the tie-downs.

My costs so far...

Purchase Price  $300.00
Van Rental         $84.69
Tie-Downs         $28.24

SubTotal         $412.93

BTW the wife knows nothing yet.  And when the inevitable comes    I will just remind her I just spent the exact same amount to get two tickets for her to go see that musical theatre show Strictly Ballroom downtown last week.      Our interests in life couldn't be more divergent.

It will be a while before anything else gets posted.  Now I HAVE to clean out the basement to make space for this.     I'll also be buying up some spares on the internet (particularly a front end - those fork tubes are toast).  Oh yeah - guess I should find some manuals for it...   

Also I am still able to use Photobucket to link to 3rd parties since their policy change.

Any tips on literally stripping the frame to get rid of the rust and repaint would be appreciated.   

Wish me luck!   

[Hersey289]

Looks kinda cool Paul. Have fun with the project! 

Rob

[paulfj03]

Neato, Paul.

I will be following along


Paul

[X-Ray]

I think this will be great when finished, how many restored FJ600s do you see? (Well none in Australia anyway,  )

[PaulG]

Finally got the ownership transferred into my name today.  In Ontario it's mandatory that you have to purchase a used vehicle history and keep it as a record for when/if you resell.  Took a while to print off because I am now the 9th ! owner of this '85 FJ600.   One of them is the Yamaha dealer where I get my OEM parts.  Which is where I picked up 2 OEM oil filters and an air filter (on back order).

I've been checking the internet for parts and luckily I've found 3 sources within an hour of me, plus more further afield.  I found a GYSM also which I intend to buy - even though the price seems a bit steep.

Today I did a gas tank draining/inspection/cleaning.  The "gas" that was in there - ~2L - would have made a nice amber ale if you were desparate and ran out of mouthwash to drink.

...mmmm... tasty....



My initial worry was the tank would be flaking off like cornflakes inside.  My first inspection didn't give me any encouragement.

untouched tank




I had some patrtial containers of various solvents, so I decided to first use some laquer thinners (about a cup or two as that's all that was left).  I wanted to try and get rid of any varnish or other goo that may have accumulated over the years of un-use.  What came out seemed slightly darker than the original gas so maybe it's working, but no change in the rust.

after laquer thinners wash



Then it was on to about the same amount of acetone.  This came out a lot clearer, even with the small amounts I have used so far.  But no change in the rust yet.

after acetone wash




Now I flushed the tank out with water, then added a bottle (~1L) of CLR Cleaner, and filled it up with water again.  I let it sit for about 10 min.  The instructions said 2min, but that's usually just for the rust stains you get in your toilets or sinks.  After flushing the results were quite noticeable.

after CLR cleaning


Though not completely gone, the rust had diminished substantially.  I took out the float level from the underside of the tank and used the opening as an additional inspection port.  My initial fears seemed unfounded as it appeared most of the major rust was just below the filler cap.  The underside of the top of the tank was clean.  There was a little bit inside the bottom right, but the bottom left (petcock side) seemed decent enough.  The external rust on the tank seems worse than the internal.

Satisfied with the results, I poured in ~1/2L Varsol to rinse out the remaining water, then added ~3/4L of engine oil to line the tank to prevent further rusting.  That's a load off my mind.  I wasn't averse to buying another tank if needs be, but it's impossible to see what the insides are like over the internet.

I was going to start looking at the carbs, but it's been one of those up-all-night-working/stay-up-all-day cycles.  Been up ~27hrs now and getting punch drunk. .  Time to zombie out.  Once the carbs are sorted, I'd like to drain the sludge in the sump, and pull the oil pan off to make sure the oil pump isn't fouled before I try to get it turned over.

I was going to put on a new filter - fill with new oil - get it heated up - then dump - new filter again - refill.   Is there a product out there that can be used by itself or added to the oil that will clean out the engine internals.  Like an internal shampoo?  Or is getting fresh oil through it good enough?  That reminds me... gaskets... 

Running costs so far:

Purchase Price      $300.00
Van Rental           $84.69
Tie-Downs           $28.24
Gas for Rental      $19.20
OEM Oil Filters (2) $25.40
OEM Air Filter       $49.22 
Used Vehicle
History                $20
Ownership
Transfer              $71

Sub Total            $597.75

[PaulG]

OK Back to square one with the pics.  Started transferring to Flickr finally so I'll just post a few of what I had previously.

The 1st Day at Home





Old "Gazzoleene"



Gas Tank Untreated



After Laquer Thinner/Acetone/Varsol/CLR Wash


Like mentioned above I coated the inside with some oil.  I may give it another cleaning with a stonger dose of CLR as it seemed to do some good.

Now the carbs.... welllll.... let's not and say we did - as they say.  I won't go into too much detail here, but the last PO assured they were rebuilt etc.  Being in a poorly lit underground parking garage I didn't get a good look at them.  All in all my own fault.  I was a little perturbed when I unwrapped the newspaper they were in.




A little more when I opened them up...




And kinda pissed when I saw this... the broken float pin mount.  Somebody didn't rebuild them - they butchered them.



I know the buyer beware axiom.  I was prepared to enter into a carb rebuild despite being previously "rebuilt".  But I thought this was a bit ridiculous, so I texted the PO and voiced my "concern", and also why the need to drag a well known shop's reputation into it.  I told him no need to reply as it was my problem now.  To wit - he did reply and vehemently denied any shenanigans - "receipts, I'm an honest guy, I'm not a mechanic, I didn't know as they were in storage for 2yrs" (despite wrapped in a 17yr old newspaper?).  So it was mutually agreed to let it go.  Like I said my own fault for not checking closer.

So I proceeded to disassemble them.  Nearly impossible as everytrhing was coated in a layer of treacle.  The float needles had siezed in place along with every single jet.  I brought them to work and took the broken one and soaked it in automotive paint grade acetone for a couple of hrs.  The only thing I could free up was the float needle.  Put in a second carb with better success and managed to unscrew all the jets and choke.

This is a before/after of the emulsion tube.  The "before" is after the carb was soaked in acetone, and the tube was removed after copius amounts of WD40.  The "after" is when the tube itself is soaked again in acetone.  Would these be considered salvageable after some proper cleaning (ultrasound?)




BUT WHERE ONE DOOR CLOSES ANOTHER ONE OPENS

That was last week.  This is this week - and I went shopping.  Found some parts on-line so paid him a visit yesterday.  The guy selling them said he and a buddy were making a cafe project that "went a different direction".  So he was just unloading what was left.  Win/Win for both of us I think.  For $120 CDN I was able to pick up the following:



Cluster Gauge - L/R controls incl m/c and all cables & connections




Carb Set - the sawdust was free of charge!




Mirrors - Ignitor Box - Turn Signals - Shifter - Bracketry - Crankcase Vent - assorted bolts




H/L assembly - U/L Triple Trees & Stem - Starter Motor - Coils - Rectifier - Starter Solenoid - Relay - Stock Wiring Harness




Rear Wheel incl Cush Drive - Sprocket Hub - Rear Disc & Caliper



AAANNNNNNDDDD.....

Front End (less the calipers sold the week before) but incl Discs, Fender, & Speedo Cable



The fork tubes on the bike may be irrecoverable due to extensive/deep rust



The new tubes have some rust - the question is can putting them on a bench polisher redeem them?



I've also ordered some gaskets so I can remove the oil pan and inspect the pump screen and clean out any sludge that may have accumulated.  On that note what is the consensus on engine flushes like Kleen Flo?  I've bought 2 oil filters and 7L of oil.  The idea was change old oil & filter - add new oil & filter & engine flush (heat up engine) - then change oil & filter again.  Or should I just change the oil and get a few hundred clicks on it then change it again?  I've read (as usual) conflicting reasons as to why/why not it should be used.  I won't be doing this for a while yet.

Next step is to jumper it off the 1200 and see if it will crank over.  I'm doubting it cuz a quick look at the wiring under the seat showed a previous hatchet job of blade fuses and glass tube fuses.  But ya never know.

Running costs so far:

Purchase Price      $300
Van Rental            $84.69
Tie-Downs            $28.24
Gas for Rental       $19.20
OEM Oil Filters (2)  $25.40
OEM Air Filter        $49.22
Used Vehicle
History                 $20
Ownership
Transfer               $71
4L Yamalube         $39.61
Engine Gaskets     $41.17
3L Castrol            $22.39
Kleen Flo             $7.33
Used Parts           $120

Sub Total            $828.25

Better start turning a wrench or something.... 

[Sabre093]

 
Love watching threads like this...keep it coming Paul

[Bezmozek]

For fork legs try 2000/3000 sand grit and oil.
I had similar rust dots, done this on my XJ and fork seals lasted much longer

[PaulG]

For fork legs try 2000/3000 sand grit and oil.
I had similar rust dots, done this on my XJ and fork seals lasted much longer

Thanks. Will any oil do or find a specific machinists oil?

I also did a quick survey on EBay of the parts I just bought for $120.  Not including the front end or starter motor, the bulk of the parts totalled ~700$.  Even if you are able to purchase all that stuff at 1/2 price I'm still way ahead of the game. Couldn't pass on a bargain like that.

[Bezmozek]

I did that with semi syntetic 10W-40, but olive oil will work probably too. 
Tried first between upper and lower triple tree so see if surface is smooth enough. No polishing was needed afterwards.
Just wet sanding and use oil instead of water.

[PaulG]

So GOOD NEWS  , WORRIESOME NEWS  ,  and BAD NEWS     today.

First, the GOOD.  I attempted to turn the engine over by jumping it from the 1200.  The headlight came on, the signals worked, the horn gave out a wimpy "mwwweeeep".  Good signs.  Press the starter button and.... nuttin'!  I cross my fingers and hope for the best.  First check - the starter switch.  I take it apart and it appears clean inside desipite whats growing on the outside.  I disassemble the switch and give it some contact cleaner - blow it out with the compressor, and.... IT WORKS!     The engine seems to spin freely.  I reassemble the switch and double check and it still spins up.  Phew!  That's potential hours of troubleshooting I won't have to do.  As far as spark... I'll check that later.

I was worried because this is what the fuse box looks like on the bike (covered in priceless moondust  ):



And this is what it looks like on the stock wiring harness that I bought:



Let's just hope it works.

Second, the WORRIESOME.  Next was to check the valve clearances.  Haven't bought the GYSM yet so I went by the Clymer instructions for now.  They were kinda vague, just saying, "Rotate the cam by turning the crankshaft... In order to obtain a correct measurement, the lobe must be directly opposite the lifter surface."  No mention of timing marks, BDC, TDC, etc. like with the '92 1200.  Don't know if it matters with a 2-valver vs. 4 valver?  Guess I'll find out when I get the GYSM.  I don't have the exact feeler guages.  The set I have increment by 0.1-0.12-0.13-0.15-0.18mm in the range that I need. The numbers in red are a guesstimate for now as they fall between the gauges I have.  Initial check was as follows:

                                    #1                 #2              #3              #4

O/L                               
spec 0.12-0.16mm            0.14              0.16            0.15            0.15

I/L
spec 0.11-0.15mm            0.11              0.11            0.10            0.13

So that doesn't seem so bad right?    What is WORRIESOME is what I saw when I took off the cam cover and bolts:



This is what I peeled off from the inside of the gasket:




And the two bolts on the cover by #4 I/L had this:



The gasket itself looked fairly recent.  It was still very pliable so the reason for all the goo is puzzling.  Unless the more is better solution to everything was used by a PO.   

A visual inspection of the cam lobes showed some abrasion/scoring(?) on the #1 O/L, less so on the #2 O/L, and nothing on the rest of the I/L's and O/L's.  I couldn't feel anything with my very scientifically calibrated finger.  Maybe the lobe was sitting on the shim for an extended period of time?



And now for the BAD....

When I was taking off the cam cover bolts, one fell down into the #2 spark plug well between the fins and cam chain divide.  When I was wrestling to retrieve it, I noticed the cylinder bolt (circled in red) was loose.



But it was more than loose as it pulled right out and then I saw this:



JUST  F!@#ING    GREAT!    NOW WHAT!? 

Any suggestions on how to proceed with this is most welcome.  Not much point in proceeding from here until a plan on how to proceed is figgered out first.  Things like pull the head off (and all that it entails) and helicoil - or just toss it and look for another motor - or just stooooop!!!!   

[FJ1100mjk]

First time that I read through your posts from the beginning.

I'd stop where you are at, and cut your losses. Maybe by selling what you can on eBay, and the like.

If you like challenges, there's others out there, that won't soak you so bad with money and time.

[Sabre093]

Clean up everything and maybe research what alternative motor will work....once the motor is out you can clean ,inspect everything and either replace motor or look to change...like a 750 Seca or XJ 750 powerplant possibly,something that's a direct swap maybe...

[PaulG]

Thanks for the input so far.  I'll be inspecting the 2nd set of carbs this week and if things work out I'll see if the bike will run, and check compressions.  If those are ok then I'll ponder the next steps.  I'm not totally averse to diving into the motor if it's "just" fixing the stud (or replacing all of them with new ones).  After all it was supposed to be schooling for me.  Just been a very long time since I've pulled a head off (my 1980 KZ750 probably around 1987 ?)

A different motor had occured to me, but I'll pursue some further inspections on this before I make that decision.  I know this engine/frame combo was spread out amongst the 550/600/650/750 XJ/FJ/Fazer series of that period so there's lots out there if needs be.  The early 750 Secas were shaft drive so I don't know if that would be an option without some confabulating bit'sn'bobs to fit.

Cease and Disisting is still an option in a way that ties in with the above.  If the motor turns out to be pooched, I could toss that and rebuild the rolling chassis.  Just keep an eye out for a decent replacement motor.  I have the time to wait as I gave mayself a year or so to get her back on the road.  Just have to keep the horse before the cart - which I still haven't mastered after all these years.

So onwards and sideways for now!   

[PaulG]

Okay I thought it would be a while but I just opened up one of the carbs from the 2nd set I just bought.  It's like night and day.  Everything came apart with nil effort.  I think they were cleaned before they were stored in the sawdust pile.  Not a whiff of gas, but a faint odour of possibly carb cleaner.  I can look through all the jets and see daylight.





All the internals look almost brand new.





With the exception of the diaphragm.  There is some cracking along the edge where it seats into the carb body, but no indication of holes yet.  The diaphragms from the 1st set (the only thing salvageable) were actually in better condition so I may just swap them out.




If you look down into the recesses there is a little debris which should clean up with a soak in acetone.





The float bowls have minimal crud in them.




At least I have seemd to have lucked out on their condition.  Onward Concorde!