Crank, no start! Spark and fuel in the bowls, Whats next?!

[Heinrich535i]

Hey everyone,

I picked up two 1986 FJ1200's a month ago and I'm working on getting one running, the other is a parts bike/future project.

I know the bike hasn't been started in a couple of years (at least), I got the bikes as a half finished project. After checking all my systems and experiencing the crank no start I decided to work my way down the list of things to try. Pulled a plug wire and put another plug in it and grounded it to the frame and verified spark. The lights and gauges all light up when the key is in the ON position. After that I tried the sucking on the vacuum line on the petcock and it felt like a plugged straw, this is correct right? I then made sure I was getting fuel in the bowls by unscrewing the drain screws in the bowls, plenty of fuel came out of all of them.

I'm definitely no bike expert and only have some experience doing basic stuff on cars and trucks but I'm pretty sure I'm experiencing what I think is called a "pre-detonation" and I'm getting too much fuel in my mixture. Reason being is I am experiencing a very loud "POPPING" sound coming from my exhaust and sometimes my carbs. Also some fuel is shooting out backwards out of my carbs towards the air box it seems. I turned the four pilot screws all the way in then backed them out 2 1/2 turns and still nothing. I then tried turning them 1 whole turn in and then 1 whole turn back out from the original 2 1/2 turn starting point. I also tried them all the way closed just for trial and error.


Any help would be appreciated. I'd really like to get this thing running so I can enjoy some freedom of the road this summer!

[Flynt]

Make sure coils are hooked up correctly...

Frank

[Heinrich535i]

Frank,

Do you mean the spark plug wires? I have them routed from left to right

Wire 1 to Plug 1
Wire 2 to Plug 4
Wire 3 to Plug 2
Wire 4 to Plug 3

[balky1]

Did you disassemble the carbs to pieces and cleaned them properly? You should do this on a bike that sat a long time and wasn't prepared for it. Drained and cleaned the tank (bad gas from sitting)? Cleaned air filter? Checked for vacuum leaks?
Get all the spark plugs out and check for spark (bad spark plugs or one bad coil).
PS. I think that connecting scheme for spark plugs is correct, but someone else should comment.
Give us some introduction about yourself in 'Introductions'.

[Heinrich535i]

The carbs were soaked and cleaned but I did not break them down completely. I will include some pictures of my work. I replaced the needles in the bowls along with the gasket. The gas tank was empty when I got it, soaked for 36 hours in evapo-rust and washed out with warm water then gas and then filled with gas to prevent flash rusting.
The air filter is brand new.
As stated in my original post I already checked for spark but I will check again? All the spark plugs are brand new NGK DP8EA-9 properly gapped.


Here is a link to my introduction I posted upon first joining the forum. [sse]http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=16979.0[/sse]

[balky1]

The carbs were soaked and cleaned but I did not break them down completely. I will include some pictures of my work. I replaced the needles in the bowls along with the gasket. The gas tank was empty when I got it, soaked for 36 hours in evapo-rust and washed out with warm water then gas and then filled with gas to prevent flash rusting.
The air filter is brand new.
As stated in my original post I already checked for spark but I will check again? All the spark plugs are brand new NGK DP8EA-9 properly gapped.


Here is a link to my introduction I posted upon first joining the forum. [sse]http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?topic=16979.0[/sse]

Aahhh sorry, I must have missed your intro.
Yeah, I'd say you covered all my tips.
Regarding spark plugs, I understood that you checked for spark at only one plug? And you say you checked with another plug, actually leaving all plugs in the motor? If you did that, my point is that the plugs you left in the motor could actually be faulty.
Next, are you getting any overflow from carbs? If yes, check/adjust floats.
And in the end I think you should check valve clearances and compression (you can do it in reverse order, compression first and then if something is not right, valves).

[jscgdunn]

Frank,

Do you mean the spark plug wires? I have them routed from left to right

Wire 1 to Plug 1
Wire 2 to Plug 4
Wire 3 to Plug 2
Wire 4 to Plug 3

Should be 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 4-4

[Heinrich535i]

I know the firing order for these engines is 1 2 3 4 but my bike is an 86' and has two ignition coils. The ignition wire hook up on the parts bike I have still has the labels on the plug wires and I matched them up with the bike I'm trying to get running. Also how can a plug be faulty if it's brand new?

I just pulled the carbs off, again, and I'm measuring the height of the floats tonight. Will post my results later. I'm thinking its just getting too much fuel and not enough air in the mixture.

[Pat Conlon]

Frank,

Do you mean the spark plug wires? I have them routed from left to right

Wire 1 to Plug 1
Wire 2 to Plug 4
Wire 3 to Plug 2
Wire 4 to Plug 3

Should be 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 4-4

No it should not.  Sitting on the bike: Left coil goes to #1 and #4 and the Right coil goes to #2 and #3

I know the firing order for these engines is 1 2 3 4 but my bike is an 86' and has two ignition coils.

Incorrect^^^ the firing order for all FJ's is 1-2-4-3. All FJ's have 2 coils. All FJ's use a wasted spark.
If the plug wires are run as per your above reply #2 you are fine.

[Heinrich535i]

UPDATE: Spark plug wires are hooked up correctly. I pulled the carbs and measure the floats and they were all spot on within a couple of MM of the original specs.

[Pat Conlon]

The carbs were soaked and cleaned but I did not break them down completely.....

What we have learned (the hard way) we refer to Carb Cleaning 101: Half measures will avail you nothing.

You might have soaked the carbs, but they are (most assuredly) not clean.

My vote is for plugged pilot jets and idle circuit and choke circuit.

Try starting it with starter spray.....if it fires up, then you know the problem is fuel delivery.

[Heinrich535i]

Pat,
   After removing the carbs I noticed that the throttle plates were all a bit different and I bench synced them to allow just a little air in. After hooking everything back up I'm still unsuccessful in getting it to turn over, she doesn't even wanna cough. Starting fluid only results in a loud "POP" coming out my exhaust.

btw, thanks for the clarification on the spark plug wires.

[jscgdunn]

Frank,

Do you mean the spark plug wires? I have them routed from left to right

Wire 1 to Plug 1
Wire 2 to Plug 4
Wire 3 to Plug 2
Wire 4 to Plug 3

I was referring to the numbers on the wires 1-1 2-2 3-3 4-4....

Should be 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 4-4

No it should not.  Sitting on the bike: Left coil goes to #1 and #4 and the Right coil goes to #2 and #3

I know the firing order for these engines is 1 2 3 4 but my bike is an 86' and has two ignition coils.

Incorrect^^^ the firing order for all FJ's is 1-2-4-3. All FJ's have 2 coils. All FJ's use a wasted spark.
If the plug wires are run as per your above reply #2 you are fine.

[Heinrich535i]

Another update, Happy 4th of July everyone,

Carbs were pulled off again and completely disassembled this time. The vent line and other connecting line o-rings were replaced as well as everything being taken apart and cleaned again and all passages sprayed through to ensure no blockage. Fuel tank was drained through petcock to verify that it was in working order. I'm still at a loss as to why the starting fluid isn't even having any effect.

[FJmonkey]

Just a quick recap, it turns over. So the safety system ie. "in gear" (clutch) and "side stand" switches seem to work. The system is giving juice and sparks a plug when turning over. There is fuel in the float bowls. Starter spray creates more of a knock (backfire) than a cough. I am thinking that the plugs are miss connected. So the spark is not in the right place. However, you have a reference from the other bike on how the plugs are connected. Here is an image from my '89 regarding the plugs.