Advertising & New Moderation Team

[racerrad8]

There have been some changes to the forum since the ownership change and I think it is time to address the most discussed.

Advertising seems to be the biggest topic since I added my banner ad to the top of all pages. As far as advertising goes, that is the only thing that has changed; the addition of the RPM banner ad at the top of the page.

This banner ad is not part of the google revolving ads that are visible to non-contributing members. Marsh took my significant annual contribution of advertising dollars and just rolled my banner ad into the google revolving ads in the text. It was his belief that no contributing member would see any banner ad, regardless of size of contribution, person supporting the cause or outside google ads.

FJmonkey mentioned a few things in the post started by Bill P. Marsh did not have any means of tracking contributions and once you paid, whatever amount you paid were immune from the ads indefinitely. I never received any payment information from Marsh of who paid how much & when. So, a member who made a $1.00 contribution back in 2009 did not see the ads. Well, there was a significant reason this was changed upon my purchase, but it was not to make the forum a "profit center".

The forum traffic/data usage determines the hosting package required. Since the inception Marsh was able to operate the forum on a small hosting package. Well, when you look at the stats (http://www.fjowners.com/index.php?action=stats) you can scroll down and the see page views from the date of inception. Well, February 2016 was the first month the smaller package available usage was exceeded. Marsh then upgraded to a package that will handle the additional traffic/data. What was in the same time frame I purchased the forum from him. If Marsh would not have upgraded we would have exceeded in March as well. Since then you can see we are just below that threshold. Since we are right at that level it is not prudent to drop the package back down and have the forum go offline.

So, as already mentioned, the cost of the new package is significantly higher, 66% higher to be specific. This is the package Marsh selected prior to the purchase. I have not done anything but keep paying the bill every month. So, prior to the package change the annual RPM contribution used to cover the annual hosting costs. The other donations we used to cover the other costs associated with the forum.

Today I, RPM, am still covering the majority of the cost associated with the forum, and I doubt that will ever change. What I continued to do is use the google ad system that Marsh implemented many, many moons ago. While I was given a number by Marsh of what those ads generated annually for him, I have not seen those results yet with my new account.

So, to break it down: It costs more to host, member contributions have not changed (as far as I know) and the outside advertising revenue is down. That means the cost to operate the forum is now higher than when owned by Marsh. I doubt there will ever be a time I actually recoup the money I used to purchase the forum. But, that is okay, I did not buy it for it to be a profit center for me or RPM. I bought it to ensure it will never be lost.

So, now the crux of Arnie and Bill's post about the changes since I purchased the forum.

My mistake was thinking that this forum was OURS, for OUR mutual and
shared benefit, paid for by OUR contributions.
I donated to help keep this site from needing ads or a sponsor.
Obviously, I'm wrong (again).

Arnie

So... in essence we are no longer members... we are profit centers.

Unfortunately Arnie is wrong, the total contributions I have received since I purchased the website from Marsh has not covered the recurring monthly hosting costs. Like I said above I really do not expect them to. So, When Arnie says, "I donated to help keep this site from needing ads or a sponsor" that was a misguided statement. There has been a sponsor (RPM) & outside advertising long before I purchased the forum from Marsh. This helped Marsh to help offset the cost of operation as the membership contributions do not cover them. So, for Arnie to be upset that the RPM banner is at the top of every page, even though I have been paying for the majority of the cost associated with the forum is disappointing. It should have been up there the first year I set-up the advertising arrangement with Marsh and it was something I requested every year, but he did not believe it should have been there.

Now, in Bill's case he was a moderator appointed by Marsh from the beginning. So, since he was a moderator (whether he contributed or not) he has never seen any ads even though they on the forum. He was oblivious to their presence while being a moderator. So, when Bill's status was changed from a moderator last week to "Full Member" he began seeing the advertisements. Chris hit the nail on the head with this reply to Bill.

I thought being a $ Contributor was what got rid of those ads?

Just like Arnie's statement, Bill also is wrong. I really doubt the FJowners forum will ever be a profit center.

Monkey also brought up something else in the post that I was honestly shocked about when I found out. I had previously thought the majority of the forum members contributed to the support of the forum. After going through and cleaning up the contributors that had not been active on the forum in more than a year, the number of contributors dropped below 200. I know the link at the bottom of the page says any amount help, and it does. But I have been really shocked at the donations of a dollar or two since I have purchased the forum from Marsh. After PayPal takes out their fees of 10%+, a dollar results in $.90. Now, if all 4981 contributed a dollar a piece, then the forum would actually generate a profit and then I could possibly recoup my investment, but at that rate is would still take several years to be in the black. The $1, $2 and $4 contributions are appreciated and you will still receive the same contributing member status as those who have donated $20, $25 and more.

So, as I move forward my plans and goals are for your contribution membership to have more benefits than just eliminating the google ads in the topics and the ability to use the shim kit. I am trying to incorporate some of these benefits as well speak but the software is the biggest hurdle. At this time, the forum upgrade to a more current software package is probably going to be the next step before I can get the other benefits established. But that upgrade is going to cost more money and take some time, so in the meantime it will remain pretty much business as usual.

Now, onto a more positive topic and every time I log on I am excited to see the change.

Before I introduce the new moderation team, I want to thank the outgoing moderators for their contributions from the inception to the changing of the guard. Marsh appointed the original moderation team and I would like to personally thank them.

andyb
FeralJuggernaut
FJ Flyer
Pat Conlon
the fan

I appreciate all that you guys have done for the forum, from looking over the files, posts & FAQ's. Without you guys the forum layout we have would not be the same.

Now, I am proud to introduce the new team of moderators. (and one original)

aviationfred (Fred Greenlee)
fjmonkey (Mark Montgomery)
rktmanfj (Randy Thompson)
Pat Conlon (Returning for continued guidance)
The Boss (? ? ?)

So, as you can see I have chosen people who are currently very active on the forum, except for one... "The Boss".

I don't know how many of you have ever watched the T.V. show Top Gear, but they have a pretty neat deal. They have a test driver they only refer to as "Stig". He is unknown to anyone watching the show, but is more than qualified as they are usually a professional race car driver.

Well, I have created "The Boss" to be that anonymous moderator. At times there have been notions that I could not be partial we dealing with members, so this position was created to alleviate that concern. I am currently in discussions with two members about this position. This position will be for the maximum term of one year, but I might be switching it up randomly so no one can hold any bias towards them. They will still be participating members based on their personal membership, but will also carry this additional anonymous moderation position.

One assurance I will provide to you of this position; it will never be me or anyone directly related to me or my business. Once the person is appointed, they will change the password to what they want it to be and I will not be able to see anything that happens with that member after that.

Please take a moment to welcome these guys as your new moderation team. I feel I have assemble a team that will continue to be very active in assisting the forum in continued growth. They will also offer each and every one someone they are comfortable dealing with. That way we should not have any more persons creating accounts like what occurred yesterday, since whoever that is really does not feel they can bring their issue(s) to me.

I appreciate each and every one of you for your continued support and participation of the forum. Out of all of this I can assure you, that unless someone offers me seven figures to purchase it from me, it will be here for your continued pleasure and assistance.

Randy Raduechel

[Firehawk068]

Hi Randy,
I'm glad that you took the time to address the collective group with this post.
I can see that some of the changes made to the forum weren't very well received by some.............(not me personally, I'm ok with the changes)

I think you made good choices in selecting the Moderator Team, and no-doubt they will perform the task accordingly.

One question that I have:
Is there a way to set up the "Donate" button at the bottom of the page to transfer money as a "Friends and Family" payment?
That way there wouldn't be their usual fees taken out.

If that is not a possibility, if someone were to send money directly to your Paypal account as a "Friends and Family" payment, would that person still get "Contributor" status?
Or does it have to be done through the forum button to be tracked as a Forum Contributor?

Anyway, thank you again for all your continued support, and for wanting to keep this Forum alive and well! 

[racerrad8]

Hi Randy,
I'm glad that you took the time to address the collective group with this post.
I can see that some of the changes made to the forum weren't very well received by some.............(not me personally, I'm ok with the changes)

I think you made good choices in selecting the Moderator Team, and no-doubt they will perform the task accordingly.

One question that I have:
Is there a way to set up the "Donate" button at the bottom of the page to transfer money as a "Friends and Family" payment?
That way there wouldn't be their usual fees taken out.

If that is not a possibility, if someone were to send money directly to your Paypal account as a "Friends and Family" payment, would that person still get "Contributor" status?
Or does it have to be done through the forum button to be tracked as a Forum Contributor?

Anyway, thank you again for all your continued support, and for wanting to keep this Forum alive and well!  

Alan,

Thank you for the support, I too am happy to see those "blue moderator guys" logged in as much as they are.

As far as the button at the bottom of the page... When I purchased the forum from Marsh the button said "donate". Well, my accountant and PayPal had a big issue with that since I am not a "non-profit" that can accept "donations".

So, after much discussion, the subscription tab was the best option as it does a couple of things. It means you, the subscriber, have an annual subscription to the forum. At this point & time it removes the banner ads and allows the rental of the shim kit. What the subscription does for me administratively is classifies the payment as a subscription for ease of the accountant.

I have no issues with someone sending a friends & family payment to my email, along with their user name for the forum. I will deal with the accountant later.

Randy - RPM

[Tuneforkfreak]

Well I think the guys that you picked to look over things have been really helpful to allot of people including myself, so heck ya. Thanks all you guys for looking over this hot mess.  I'd also like to say that even before I threw in some money to help cover costs I never noticed any ads that caught me off guard or disturbed what I was looking for. I'll also add, I for one like the RPM banner right at the top of the page. Whenever I want to look for some hard to find item for my FJ its right there, easy to see and easy to find. That banner is not in the way of anything and RPM is the one place that's specific to FJ related items so why on earth would it be any where else but right on this site?

[PaulG]

I couldn't understand the kerfuffle caused by the broohaha of addiitional (minor) ads that had developed.  Maybe I am just inured to the constant barrage on a daily basis that I really didn't even notice these until it was pointed out in that thread.  Like the adage goes "You don't get sumthin' for nuthin'."  Or as someone once told me, "The price of knowledge is not cheap."

If it wasn't for this site there was probably a good chance I may have offloaded the FJ a while ago due to my own incompetence.  Because of this site, I am now slightly less incompetent due to the knowledge accrued by the many members here.  And 150,000 km later I still have my FJ.

Many of you refer to this forum as a digital campfire.  This is actually quite appropriate if you factor in we are in essence a Tribe.

...from Wikipedia...
"Many people used the term "tribal society" to refer to societies organized largely on the basis of social, especially familial, descent groups (see clan and kinship). A customary tribe in these terms is a face-to-face community, relatively bound by kinship relations, reciprocal exchange, and strong ties to place."

So swap a few words around and essentially we gather every day around our campfire to exchange ideas/knowledge/solutions.  We get into arguments, we laugh with each other and sometimes at.  The "face-to-face" is the LCD screen in front of us.  Our society seems to function despite the fact that 95% of us will never meet each other.

So for me this was never a big deal.  Many have questioned why the UK FJ forum requires a membership, and the issues Randy has explained is probably the reason why.  This shit can get expensive, let alone the time involved.

My first contribution was after I read Cap'n Ron's epic USA/Can trip a few years ago.  I was surprised that Marsh replied to it thanking me.  My reply back was "You can't buy this shit anywhere" or something like that.

I don't know what it would cost to host this site here in Ontario, but if the commercial costs of hosting a site are anything like our residential rates, this site probably would not survive based on it's current model.

Keep up the good work Randy, and thanks to the new (and old) moderators who are the invisible guiding hands that keep the rudder on course.   

[Firehawk068]

In regards to the Moderation Team, I forgot to add that I have personally met each of them (except "The Boss"..........I have no idea if I have met them)
They are all "Stand Up" Gentlemen, and each one of them has a lot to offer this group.

As far as the ads go, If someone were to just enter the site and browse around without being a $-contributor, I think having to look past a few adverts would be a small price to pay for the amount of knowledge that is shared here. Like others have said "This S%#T ain't free!"  The hosting costs have to be paid somehow.
I don't mind the ads. They are all over almost every forum I visit. I also don't mind being a $-contributor. I have gained so much knowledge over the years that I have been active here, but most important to me (over everything else) are the personal friendships I have gained here.
That to me is Priceless! 

[simi_ed]

Bravo!  Well done, Randy. 
You've laid out a lot of details with a lot of candor.  Good, in depth explanation of the financials of the site. You have detailed what I suspected, that this has not been a money making proposition, from inception to now, and probably for the foreseeable future as well.  As you have actually been bankrolling this deal for some time, it makes it apparent to me that you are not just here to make a buck (never thought that anyway), you must be here for the love of it all.  Thanks for that and all it entails.


Ed

[Flynt]

Bravo!  Well done, Randy. 
You've laid out a lot of details with a lot of candor.  Good, in depth explanation of the financials of the site. You have detailed what I suspected, that this has not been a money making proposition, from inception to now, and probably for the foreseeable future as well.  As you have actually been bankrolling this deal for some time, it makes it apparent to me that you are not just here to make a buck (never thought that anyway), you must be here for the love of it all.  Thanks for that and all it entails.


Ed

+1...  well said Ed.

Frank

[4everFJ]

I can only say: Keep up the good work 

The help and knowledge you get from this forum in priceless.

[jscgdunn]

Thanks Randy....over and above as usual.

Jeff

[Urban_Legend]

Thanks Randy

Marsh and his team have done a great job up until you took over. I only expect bigger and better from here on in. there will always some people who don't like change, and that is ok, but sometimes change can be good. Always happy to contribute to a great resource. I love the banner at the top. Use it regularly to find the RPM page.
It will be interesting to see "The Boss" at work on here.

Mark

[FJools]

Thanks Randy

Marsh and his team have done a great job up until you took over. I only expect bigger and better from here on in. there will always some people who don't like change, and that is ok, but sometimes change can be good. Always happy to contribute to a great resource. I love the banner at the top. Use it regularly to find the RPM page.
It will be interesting to see "The Boss" at work on here.

Mark

Ditto these sentiments 

[Steve_in_Florida]

Forum Peeps:
   
Thank you to the old administration for a job well done.

A warm welcome to the new moderators. Now get busy!

Questions:

There is a link on the home page to an FJ Rally site, circa 2011. Did that site come with the forum? Will it ever be updated, or just a memory of rallies past.

Why the secrecy surrounding the new Uber-User identity? I happened to see the e-mail address associated with that user (A few days ago, I think) before it got hidden, and have an idea who it may be. Again, why the secrecy?

Did Bill (theFan) leave mad? Really? He seemed like a very knowledgeable and  friendly guy when I met him in Tellico. Hope there's no grudge.

Lastly, there is a certain U.K.-based FJ club that restricts tech data and parts/accessories sales to paid club members ONLY. Is our forum headed that way? Just curious.

Well, change is certain. Might as well embrace it!

Steve

[FJmonkey]

Forum Peeps:
   
Thank you to the old administration for a job well done.

A warm welcome to the new moderators. Now get busy!

Questions:

There is a link on the home page to an FJ Rally site, circa 2011. Did that site come with the forum? Will it ever be updated, or just a memory of rallies past.

Why the secrecy surrounding the new Uber-User identity? I happened to see the e-mail address associated with that user (A few days ago, I think) before it got hidden, and have an idea who it may be. Again, why the secrecy?

Did Bill (theFan) leave mad? Really? He seemed like a very knowledgeable and  friendly guy when I met him in Tellico. Hope there's no grudge.

Lastly, there is a certain U.K.-based FJ club that restricts tech data and parts/accessories sales to paid club members ONLY. Is our forum headed that way? Just curious.

Well, change is certain. Might as well embrace it!
Steve

The rally site was abandoned before Randy took the reigns. I don't foresee it returning without funding and human support. The rally stuff has since been supported on this site. Not sure who is currently paying for the hosting to keep it going.

I will let Randy elaborate on the "Boss" (Stig like anonymity).

I hope Bill is not really gone. I have not meet him but others have good things to say about him. It would be nice to meet him at a rally or ride.

I don't think this site or support (Randy/RPM) will be restricted like the UK club. Randy has been clear that volunteer donations and the wealth of knowledge are the support and strength of this site.

Thank you for the warm welcome Steve.

[fj1289]

Steve - not the first time Bill has exited stage right...