Thoughts on Suspension Set-up

[Mike Ramos]

Dragging Parts Video aka Proper Suspension Set Up

Hello Gentlemen,

As usual there are different opinions as to suspension adjustments.  Some even post a picture of undercarriage bolts & such, and while quaint, doesn't actually explain the situation.  So the following video will hopefully explain what is actually happening with a properly adjusted suspension.

The beginning of the video shows the actual tire wear on a set of Pilot Road 4's.  The clip viewed is following a spirited ride on Highway 36 (far northern California) on the way home from this year's West Coast Rally.  Several late model sport motorcycles were encountered yet the FJ performed very well.  While not considered a true sport tire (such as the Pilot Power 3's) they do perform exceptionally well in wet conditions; the main limitation of these types of tires is that speeds cannot be reduced by scuffing the sides of the tires through the turns, thus more braking is required also.  While the rear tire is out to the edge, there is a small area on the front that remains.  It is the best I could do.

Also included in the video are the measurements of the height of the rear wheel, which is about 1.25" with a new tire (just about stock height); the position of the gear shift and brake levers which remain clear of the ground; and the RPM exhaust which tucks in nicely within the chin fairing and the muffler is close to the swing arm & angled properly, thus has not been subjected to the road rash of other exhausts.

Although some occasionally touch a foot peg, the consistent ground clearance problems are not only unnecessary with the modern suspension components readily available for the FJ, but indicate a lack of a basic understanding of suspension set up.  This ignorance is sometimes compounded by claims which while seemingly innocuous, are often misleading and specious at best.

As far as the inanity of discolored brake rotors, I think quite a few are; however the problem I encountered was rotor warping under extreme use, which has been solved by the gentleman from Oakdale.  Although I have had only one front rotor warp, the rear rotor was changed numerous times because of warping; that is until the Braking brand rotor became available from RPM.

As an aside, I have included my motorcycle lift – I bought it used at a garage sale & it allows working on the motorcycle to be a pleasure.  This model came with its' own scissors jack & the wood spacer; the jack stand is an added safety measure in case the hydraulics on the scissors jack fail.  Although I bought it used for $2,200 – it works just as Mr. Barnum said it would and as it is often said; condescension may be disdainful (as found in the margins of various posts) yet irreverence knows no bounds....

The roads in the video are at times quite rough, and to clearly illustrate the movement of the rear suspension I applied silver tape to the side of the swing arm.  While I never actually was able to drag the undercarriage, I did manage to inadvertently touch down the camera mount – which necessitated following the installation instructions and raising the mounting points....   For a view of the front suspension hard at work I would refer to the video "Short Ride in the Colorado Rockies".

So, on to the video itself: as illustrated down in the Tellico Plains area by one of the smoothest, fastest and most accomplished riders who ever attended a FJ Rally and who is having a bit of fun, this segment is dedicated to those who "hang off" or think they do; please be advised that this style of hanging off is actually a detriment to riding fast and only decreases ground clearance. 

There are also short segments interspersed of a rough freeway - the suspension settings are unchanged from the back country roads yet the suspension adapts to all scenarios readily; heading east to last years Central Rally with the evening sun going down in in the west during the bewitching hours; and a segment from the following morning with the warming morning sunshine.

But if you really like to drag the pegs, grind the brake lever and even the gear shift lever (!) have at it.  As to the muffler hanging out & exhaust regularly contacting the pavement?  Well that's been addressed above – much like the $2,200 motorcycle lift, the need for automatic chain oilers and semi-automatic face shield cleaners, ultimately there shall be no reason to properly set up the suspension – just continue the search for disapproval in vain narcissism – ah yes, hubris knows no bounds....

Just having a bit of fun so stay in good humor gentlemen [and you other fellows as well] – life's too short to ride around grinding up good equipment!  So raise the volume as this is some serious stuff...!!!

Midget.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKxd6dE8U8I&feature=youtu.be

[TexasDave]

Mike
Thanks for the great video and suspension comments to which I agree. Also liked the music( likely because I am of the older Gen.)  Dave

[ribbert]

Great video Mike. Steady camera and great mounting points. As usual, makes me want to go and ride.

Noel

[movenon]

As usual Mike, A great video for sure. Love it. 
George

[Troyskie]

Nice angles and good music.

The GPS speedo was a good touch.

Darn lucky you don't have roos mate. That beautiful evening ride would give me the heeby-geebies here. Do you have deer in that part of the US?

[Mark Olson]

nice footwork Mike , sure got yur toes outta da way.

[Flynt]

Just having a bit of fun...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKxd6dE8U8I&feature=youtu.be

So Diane hears the Globetrotters music playing in the office and walks in to see me watching a finger pointing at chicken strips (she knows what they are)...  I spin some BS about how the Warriors are calling out the Cavs in motorcycle-land, then too quickly tell the truth.  It was fun here too.

She says hi Mike.

Frank

[Bones]

These engine bars are very handy for mounting things aren't they. Good video Mike with a great view of your fancy footwork, looks like you need a longer side stand finder though.


Interesting to see the rear suspension still rising after you get off the bike, must be those trick valves in action.

[ribbert]

....semi-automatic face shield cleaners....

Midget.

Mike, what is the above?

Noel

[Mike Ramos]

These engine bars are very handy for mounting things aren't they. Good video Mike with a great view of your fancy footwork, looks like you need a longer side stand finder though.


Interesting to see the rear suspension still rising after you get off the bike, must be those trick valves in action.

Yep, the suspension unloads without a rebound effect - I was in a hurry getting the side stand down as I had a message to deliver to another rider....!

[Mike Ramos]

Nice angles and good music.

The GPS speedo was a good touch.

Darn lucky you don't have roos mate. That beautiful evening ride would give me the heeby-geebies here. Do you have deer in that part of the US?

Yes, where I live and its' enviroins a lot of deer & feral pigs too - in hopes of not jinxing myself: the deer I hit (actually clipped) on the FJ was on an 8 lane freeway in the San Francisco Bay Area in the midst of a mid-night hours run. 

The evening video clip pictured was in the high desert area east of Yosemeite Park - having left far northern California I made a loop by first heading south & stopped by the RPM shop for a set of tires in the afternoon before heading north/east on my way to last years Central Rally - the further east and north one travels there are also elk and gazelle & other miscellaneous animals- good lighting is essential - good luck as well... as I say, I trust mentioning it does not portend problems....!

Ride safe.

[Mike Ramos]

....semi-automatic face shield cleaners....

Midget.

Mike, what is the above?

Noel

From a previous video - the one with the cows in the road - do not recall the title at the moment.

Just having fun...

[ribbert]

Dragging Parts Video aka Proper Suspension Set Up

  .....So the following video will hopefully explain what is actually happening with a properly adjusted suspension.........but indicate a lack of a basic understanding of suspension set up.  This ignorance is sometimes compounded by claims..........

Midget.

Mike, that's just it, it shows what's happening, but not why. You have shown us many videos of your wheel going up and down while expounding the virtues of RPM suspension and the gentleman from that establishment. Showing what is does is great but how about telling us how to do it, for the those ignorant ones among us, the poor soul you describe in your post (who can now add personality disorder to his list of woes) and those like myself that lack an understanding of suspension set up. I don't consider I have a clearance problem but certainly if I lean it over far enough, something has to scrape.
What have you done to your suspension to overcome this?

I'm sure it would be appreciated and benefit many, myself included.

Noel

[Mike Ramos]

Dragging Parts Video aka Proper Suspension Set Up

  .....So the following video will hopefully explain what is actually happening with a properly adjusted suspension.........but indicate a lack of a basic understanding of suspension set up.  This ignorance is sometimes compounded by claims..........

Midget.

Mike, that's just it, it shows what's happening, but not why. You have shown us many videos of your wheel going up and down while expounding the virtues of RPM suspension and the gentleman from that establishment. Showing what is does is great but how about telling us how to do it, for the those ignorant ones among us, the poor soul you describe in your post (who can now add personality disorder to his list of woes) and those like myself that lack an understanding of suspension set up. I don't consider I have a clearance problem but certainly if I lean it over far enough, something has to scrape.
What have you done to your suspension to overcome this?

I'm sure it would be appreciated and benefit many, myself included.

Noel

Howdy Noel,

No, I do not have any recommendation as I do not claim to understand the enginering involved. 

What I can tell you is to not be hesitant to try different suspension settings (adjustments). I believe this to be the most important aspect of, and the surest avenue to follow, so as to achieve the positive results which, based on your comments (both recent and previous posts as well), apparently have eluded you. 

I will say that based on my experience of over many tens of thousands of miles and several years, the explanation provided by RPM is correct & valid: as noted by Bones, it is the internal valving of the rear shock & fork valves that allows for softer springs to be used which provide for a comfortable over the  road ride while also allowing for spirited back country road riding without the need for suspension adjustment over varying road surfaces and road conditions.  This is the extent of my understanding as to why the suspension works as well as it does.

As far as leaning over so far as to drag clutch & brake levers and such - it is not perceived as a badge of honor as you seem to imply.  As shown in the most recent video I posted, I am at the limits of the tires and other than occasionally touching a foot peg, I drag nothing.  Also as shown in the video, a rider can certainly "hang off" yet if done as illustrated, it does not enhance cornering ability, it only limits the cornering speeds but will make dragging the undercarraige not only possible but quite easy to do.

Okay, one piece of advice (hope this is not the start of another oil thread!) I understand from your post you are running PR 4's which are what I have installed and used extensively and are excellent tires - both for all around performance and especially above reproach in wet weather: I would suggest beginning with inflating front & rear tires with 42 psi and then begin your suspension settings.

Alright, good luck & ride safe.





 

[ribbert]

Howdy Noel,

No, I do not have any recommendation as I do not claim to understand the enginering involved. 

What I can tell you is to not be hesitant to try different suspension settings (adjustments). I believe this to be the most important aspect of, and the surest avenue to follow, so as to achieve the positive results which, based on your comments (both recent and previous posts as well), apparently have eluded you. 

I will say that based on my experience of over many tens of thousands of miles and several years, the explanation provided by RPM is correct & valid: as noted by Bones, it is the internal valving of the rear shock & fork valves that allows for softer springs to be used which provide for a comfortable over the  road ride while also allowing for spirited back country road riding without the need for suspension adjustment over varying road surfaces and road conditions.  This is the extent of my understanding as to why the suspension works as well as it does.

As far as leaning over so far as to drag clutch & brake levers and such - it is not perceived as a badge of honor as you seem to imply.  As shown in the most recent video I posted, I am at the limits of the tires and other than occasionally touching a foot peg, I drag nothing.  Also as shown in the video, a rider can certainly "hang off" yet if done as illustrated, it does not enhance cornering ability, it only limits the cornering speeds but will make dragging the undercarraige not only possible but quite easy to do.

Okay, one piece of advice (hope this is not the start of another oil thread!) I understand from your post you are running PR 4's which are what I have installed and used extensively and are excellent tires - both for all around performance and especially above reproach in wet weather: I would suggest beginning with inflating front & rear tires with 42 psi and then begin your suspension settings.

Alright, good luck & ride safe.

Thanks for your feedback Mike.

I have availed myself of all the information regarding suspension set up and fiddled with settings until I got tired of it, not that there's much to adjust.

Yes, I understand all the theory of the FJ specific suspension and find within a particular frequency range it is excellent, something akin to the roads in your videos but the only roads we have like that here are freeways.

I do not see scraping levers as a "badge of honour" nor is it the goal when cornering but it is inevitable if leaned over the bike will scrape something, although now it is higher than it used to be.
On original suspension the bike would squat through corners and as a consequence the contact points on the bike were quite low down. With new suspension F&R and raised rear end the bike no longer squats into the corner, leans over further and the contact points are now higher (side of belly pan, levers etc)

It is not my intention to scrape anything but for many reasons, blind double apex corners, a whisker too fast through a bend, a bump, an oncoming vehicle going wide, altering my line mid corner to avoid a hazard or pot holes, poor judgement or just feeling in the zone, there are many reasons one ends up cornering a little harder than planned.

I don't hang off the bike but I do move my upper body forward and into the corner a little to balance the bike so your observations on this style are academic to me but none the less interesting and contrary to my long held views.

To my mind, all things being equal (ie speed and corner radius) the more weight you move inside the centre line of the bike, the less you need to lean it. If you hung as far as possible off the inside of a bike you could take a very slow corner with the bike vertical. Technically, that should convert some of the load to lateral force, taking downward load off the suspension increasing the bike height through a corner.

Why do moto GP riders hang off their bikes?

I'll give anything a go if there is a chance it has merit. Contrary to what I believe to be the case but based on the opinions of many here (and so I could speak from experience), I did try my tyres in the low mid 40's.

No risk of an oil thread here, I think that's run its course as a contentious subject.

Noel